MJ Only Matthew 5:18

[gadar perets]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
​

"Till heaven and earth pass" seems to imply the law will continue long into our future. However, since it also seems that certain jots and tittles have passed from the law (ie; sacrifices, temple commands, etc.), that would suggest "till all be fulfilled" has been fulfilled. If all has not been fulfilled yet, then why do we not keep every jot and tittle of the law? It has been suggested that heaven and earth have passed and that believers comprise the new heaven and new earth.

Any thoughts?

 

[DennisTate]

I personally believe that every word in Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 will be fulfilled within a number of decades or centuries....... and I believe that some Messianic Jews will follow the examples of many in the first century.

"The Sacrificial System Will Continue

One of the most perplexing ideas to students of Scripture is the idea that God intends that the annual feasts, along with animal sacrifice, will continue into the Millennium. Many Christians who have studied the prophetic portions of Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40 - 48, which clearly describe these Millennial worship ordinations, are confused by the idea. They ask, "Didn't the sacrifice of Christ eliminate animal sacrifices forever?"

............"Only the complete sacrifice of Jesus could ever totally atone for our sins. However, God clearly demanded the sacrifices from Adam to Christ. Those sacrifices were acts of obedience to the direct command of God, as well as acknowledgements of one's own personal sinfulness and need for God's forgiveness. Animal sacrifices covered the sins of the people temporarily until the prophesied Messiah would come and offer Himself once and for all as the necessary atonement for sin. If animal sacrifice can never atone for sin, why would God allow Israel to resume such sacrifice in the Third Temple, prior to Armageddon, and then demand that Israel continue such sacrifice in the Millennium? There are two reasons why I believe this is true."

First, the early Jewish - Christian Church continued to offer sacrifices in the first century.".......



.......Second, New Testament writers used the legal sacrificial system to illustrate very important points concerning Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.......

..... These examples of the way early Jewish believers used God's law to teach great love when He sacrificed His only Son on the cross will be repeated during the Millennium." (Grant R. Jeffrey, Messiah, War in the Middle East and the Road to Armageddon, page 317, 318 and 319)

So why don't more of us support the Orthodox Jewish community in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple?

In my own case I am guilty of flip flopping back and forth on the issue and I now feel that I was guilty of fearing the coming of the anti-Messiah Antiochus type person more than I wanted to see the fulfillment of Zechariah chapter 14 and the full fledged taking over of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in the affairs of mankind....... and to raise up King David for Israel..... which I assume means the First Resurrection.

 

[Danoh]

Regarding that insert written by Grant Jeffrey on Millennial Sacrifices in the post prior to this one, there are three interesting pdfs that you can google, which go into the actual role of said sacrifices - a role which is often misunderstood by many on all sides of this issue.

For the one, simply google the words...

Sacrifices - Ariel Ministries pdf

For the other, google the words....

Millennial Temple - Ariel ministries pdf

And for the third, Google the words...

Reconciling The Sacrifices of Ezekiel With The Torah - Devin Chaim (Rudolph) Klein pdf

Enjoy.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[visionary]

I think it is the written in stone part that Yeshua was talking about. I do not think heaven and earth has passed.

 

[Heber Book List]

Why don't you use one of the 'coloured MJ Flags'?

 

[gadar perets]

Why don't you use one of the 'coloured MJ Flags'?

I didn't know how until I just saw "Thread Tools".

 

[.Mikha'el.]

This is the verse that changed me from a non-denominational Christian to a Messianic several years ago. My own take is that the items you mention like sacrifices cannot be fulfilled at present because there is no temple. If such a temple did exist, I'd like to believe that many Torah followers would be more than happy to undertake in those practices as long as legally permitted.

 

[gadar perets]

This is the verse that changed me from a non-denominational Christian to a Messianic several years ago. My own take is that the items you mention like sacrifices cannot be fulfilled at present because there is no temple. If such a temple did exist, I'd like to believe that many Torah followers would be more than happy to undertake in those practices as long as legally permitted.

So you don't think they were fulfilled by Yeshua prior to the temple being destroyed?

 

[tampasteve]

So you don't think they were fulfilled by Yeshua prior to the temple being destroyed?

I personally do not. I believe that the sacrifice of Yesua is effectual to allow us to stand before G-d in the heavenly Temple, to cleanse us in the afterlife to be allowed before our G-d. That does not negate the purpose of the sacrifice on earth - to stand before G-d in the earthly Temple and fulfill the request of a G-d that has requested sacrifice if there is a standing temple. Two entirely different purposes.

 

[gadar perets]

I personally do not. I believe that the sacrifice of Yesua is effectual to allow us to stand before G-d in the heavenly Temple, to cleanse us in the afterlife to be allowed before our G-d. That does not negate the purpose of the sacrifice on earth - to stand before G-d in the earthly Temple and fulfill the request of a G-d that has requested sacrifice if there is a standing temple. Two entirely different purposes.

So, if there is a standing Temple in the future, you believe those in Messiah Yeshua should offer sin sacrifices even though Yeshua was sacrificed for sin?

 

[tampasteve]

So, if there is a standing Temple in the future, you believe those in Messiah Yeshua should offer sin sacrifices even though Yeshua was sacrificed for sin?

Jews, possibly. Gentiles, no - I do not believe gentiles were ever able to bring sin sacrifices, only thanksgiving and similar, and then not to the altar. It must be remembered that the sin sacrifice was not the typical sacrifice, most were about thanksgiving and trying to commune with G-d in person at the altar.

 

[Soyeong]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
​

"Till heaven and earth pass" seems to imply the law will continue long into our future. However, since it also seems that certain jots and tittles have passed from the law (ie; sacrifices, temple commands, etc.), that would suggest "till all be fulfilled" has been fulfilled. If all has not been fulfilled yet, then why do we not keep every jot and tittle of the law? It has been suggested that heaven and earth have passed and that believers comprise the new heaven and new earth.

Any thoughts?

All of God's laws are eternal, so there are no jots a tittles that have passed from the Law. There is still the second coming and everything that Revelation says comes with it left to be fulfilled, so both "until heaven and earth pass away" and "until all is fulfilled" are either referring to end times or are ways of saying that it is never going to happen. When Jesus said in Matthew 28:20 that he would never leave us even until the end of the age, he was not suggesting that he wouldn't leave us up until the end of the age, and then he would leave us, but rather that is never going to happen. There will not be a new heaven and earth until Revelation 21.

Many laws have conditions under which they should be obeyed, such as parking laws that should only be followed during certain hours or the Sabbath, which should only be followed when it is the 7th day. In the same way, laws in regard to temple practice should only be followed when there is a temple in which to practice them along with a presiding Levitical priesthood. When the Israelites were in exile in Babylon, the condition for their return was to return to obedience to God's Law, which required them to have access to the temple, which they didn't have access to while they were in exile. So we should be faithful to obey the laws that have their conditions met.

 

[visionary]

When I was a child, my dad sent me out to gather eggs. The chicken coop is gone, the chickens are gone, the property is sold and if I go out to the property and buy it, build a chicken coop and raise chicken and then go gather the eggs, I would not be doing my father's will. Things change, and as Hebrew clearly states, one of the changes is the need for animal sacrifices. The transference of purpose went with Yeshua to the Heavenly Courts and any re-enactment of those temple requirements only duplicate, distract, and minimize what Yeshua is doing in Heaven on our behalf.

The temple building and services performed, even if done to the minute detail, will not serve any purpose that will enhance any relationship with God. What will happen is that it will shortly be taken over by those who are still working their salvation, either for Allah, or Jesus, or YHVH. Sad thing is that it will be for not.

It will serve the end time scenario, prophesied as the climax of human's history on earth. It will end with a surprise none of the participants expect from their God.

 

[Laureate]

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
​

"Till heaven and earth pass" seems to imply the law will continue long into our future. However, since it also seems that certain jots and tittles have passed from the law (ie; sacrifices, temple commands, etc.), that would suggest "till all be fulfilled" has been fulfilled. If all has not been fulfilled yet, then why do we not keep every jot and tittle of the law? It has been suggested that heaven and earth have passed and that believers comprise the new heaven and new earth.

Any thoughts?

I get, '...every Yowd 'Manual' and every (Masoretic) diacritic...' which has great implications not touched upon by the denominations.

Primarily due to their inability to שבר the bread from heaven, and Eat (come to) his בשר and Drink (trust and rely on) his דמם, that they may bring out both New and Old from the treasures of the Torah.

In Jeremiah 1:11 (Î)yéhûʷəʰ gives us an example on how to expedite the performance of his word when he asks Yeremiyahu, What do you see? Yeremiyahu sees a rod of שקד (punctuated) an Almond tree, then (Î)yéhûʷəʰ says, You have seen correctly, for I will שקד (punctuated) Expedite the performance of my word.

In essence, the Masoretic diacritics are crucial for us to perceive the historical perspective, and current translations of the Torah, without them one can extract a myriad of intelligible content from the original consonant layout, without spaces, or diacritics.

The Masori was instituted near the end of the 70 year exile, for their captivity was on the verge of causing literacy of the ancient Hebrew to become extinct.

Thus we read in Isaiah 9 '....and the Masorah will be on his shoulders....'


Yeremiyahu 1:11 shows us that this Amendment not only preserves the customary (fixed) reading, it also shows us the many ways in which a particular set of consonants may read.

In essence the diacritics are like a training wheel to understand the spiritual versatility of the native tongue.

Hence, to שבר 'Break' the bread from heaven is to שבר 'Translate' the bread from heaven, and to eat his בשר is to come to his בשר 'Gospel' and to drink his דמם 'Blood' is to Believe (trust and rely on) his (Divine) דמם 'Plan'.

Of course this is where many turn away from following him.

The word תורה and תורת is not limited to the meaning Law, neither is it limited to the first five books of Môsʰéʰ.

According to (Î)yésʰûʷəʰ the prophets of the תורת ends with John, at any rate the term is biblically synonymous with the writings and instructions of the seers and prophets.

Notwithstanding, the end of the Law is Justice, and the fulfilling of a Law Righteousness, i.e., to be Law abiding.

Swords have yet to be beat into plowshares, thus the Torah yet has some fulfillment yet to manifest.

Then there is Isaiah 28 where the agreement with death has yet to be annulled by the Crown of Glory that does not fade away, whom Peter identifies as the Chief Shepherd who shall appear.

 

[Laureate]

This is a different World than the one they lived in.

 

[Erik Nelson]

May I please offer the following link for discussion and consideration?

Did Jesus Contradict Himself in Matthew 5:17?

 

[DennisTate]

May I please offer the following link for discussion and consideration?

Did Jesus Contradict Himself in Matthew 5:17?

What a fascinating question........
to some degree.. I feel that there is a partial answer to this in the near death experience of former Skeptic Rabbi Alon Anava. He reported many things that sure fit with Matthew chapters 5,6 and 7.

Your favourite Orthodox Jewish Rabbi lecturer?

 

[gadar perets]

May I please offer the following link for discussion and consideration?

Did Jesus Contradict Himself in Matthew 5:17?

I read the article, but there is much to disagree with. Can you narrow down which points in particular you want to discuss?

 

[tampasteve]

May I please offer the following link for discussion and consideration?

Did Jesus Contradict Himself in Matthew 5:17?

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[Mercy74]

This is the verse that changed me from a non-denominational Christian to a Messianic several years ago. My own take is that the items you mention like sacrifices cannot be fulfilled at present because there is no temple. If such a temple did exist, I'd like to believe that many Torah followers would be more than happy to undertake in those practices as long as legally permitted.

Sacrifices we e performed prior to the temple being built. The temple only made a central location to perform sacrifices. Torah (5 books) was completed before Solomon built the temple. Moses and Aaron had already established the earthly priesthood, including the ark of the covenant. The temple was a dwelling place for the ark.