Matthew 1:1

[Timothew]

There are a lot of good translations made by experts in the greek language.
My translation is not one of them!

 

[Radagast]

The point of this is for me to to learn greek. But thanks!

Oh good!

You will find the future passive waaaay back at the end of most Greek grammar books.

 

[Timothew]

Oh good!

You will find the future passive waaaay back at the end of most Greek grammar books.

Uggh, grammar.

 

[Radagast]

I was having trouble with ἀχθήσεσθε, which is why I put it again after the verse like this: ἀχθήσεσθε?

I guessed that, which is why I replied in detail.

Since you're learning Greek, let me introduce you to this instead (mouse over the words for definitions and tenses).

And repeat after me: "grammar is fun"

 

[Timothew]

I guessed that, which is why I replied in detail.

Since you're learning Greek, let me introduce you to this instead (mouse over the words for definitions and tenses).

And repeat after me: "grammar is fun"

Whoa! Cool Link! Thank you. I saved it. Grammar be not fun. Grammar be necessary.

 

[he-man]

Is μαστιγωσουσιν related to masticate?

No μαστιγόω (μαστιγ(&#959-, μαστιγω·σ-, μαστιγω·σ-, -, μεμαστιγω-, μαστιγω·θ-)
Parsing fut act ptcp mas dat pl; fut act ptcp neu dat pl; fut act ind 3rd pl

The word is castigate as used in v. 17, as shown by when they spit in his face, Mat 26:67, 27:30 and
Mr 14:65 And some began to spit on him and coated his face, also to slap him with open hands, and to say to him, "Prophesy!" And the servants spat in his face and pummeled him with their fists.
Mr 15:16 And the soldiers led him away inside the courtyard to be presented, and they called together the whole Praetorian guard.
17 And they put purple clothes on him, and braided a wreath of prickle around about him.
18 And they began to humorously kiss him, saying Hail, King of the Judaeans!
19 And they beat his head with a cane, and spit upon him, and utterly prostrate1 they did obeisance to him.
20 And when they had sported him, they stripped him of the purple, and they put on his clothes, and led him out so that to fix him on a stake.
1* Greek τεθη τεθειται τεθηκεν εθηκεν τιυημιto lay up; advise, appoint, bow, lay aside, down, up, purpose, put, utterly prostrate
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]μαστιγώοαι μαστιγώνω flogging flagellate, castigate, whip, strap [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]REPRIMAND, rebuke, admonish, chastise, chide, upbraid, reprove, reproach, scold, berate[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]17 Προσέχετε [lexicon][inflect][close][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Verb17 Προσέχετε [lexicon][inflect][close]17 Προσέχετε [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
προσ·έχω (προσ+εχ-, προσ+εξ-, 2nd προσ+σχ-/ath. προσ+σχε-, προσ+εσχη·κ-, -, -)
προσ·εχ·ετε
pres act ind 2nd pl or pres act imp 2nd pl
to pay heed reck [with negative or in questions] archaic pay heed to something. (it recks) it is important. you(pl)-are-PAY HEED-ing, be-you(pl)-PAY HEED-ing! δὲ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Particle
δέ
δε
indecl
But also
δ’ before ἄν [plus two occurrences before αὐτό: Mt 27:44; Phil 2:18] But also ἀπὸ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Preposition
ἀπό
απο
indecl
away from (+gen)
ἀπ’ before smooth breathing
ἀφ’ before rough breathing away from (+gen) τῶν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Article (Definite)
ὁ ἡ τό
τ·ων
neu gen pl or mas gen pl or fem gen pl
the the (gen) ἀνθρώπων [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (2nd Decl.)
ἄνθρωπος, -ου, ὁ
ανθρωπ·ων
(mas) gen pl
human humans (gen) · παραδώσουσιν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
παρα·δίδωμι (ath. παρα+διδ(&#959-/ath. παρα+διδ(&#969-, παρα+δω·σ-, παρα+δω·κ- or 2nd ath. παρα+δ(&#959-/ath. παρα+δ(&#969-, παρα+δεδω·κ-, παρα+δεδο-, παρα+δο·θ-)
παρα·δω·σουσι(&#957, παρα·δω·σου[ντ]·σι(&#957
fut act ind 3rd pl, fut act ptcp mas dat pl or fut act ptcp neu dat pl
to give over give you over they-will-GIVE OVER, going-to-GIVE OVER (fut ptcp) (dat) γὰρ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Conjunction
γάρ
γαρ
indecl
for for ὑμᾶς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (2nd Person)
σύ, σοῦ (σο&#965, σοί (σο&#953, σέ (σ&#949, pl. ὑμεῖς, ὑμῶν, ὑμῖν, ὑμᾶς
υμας
acc pl
you you(pl) (acc) εἰς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Preposition
εἰς[1]
εις
indecl
into (+acc) into (+acc) συνέδρια [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (2nd Decl.)
συν·έδριον, -ου, τό
συνεδρι·α
(neu) nom|acc|voc pl
convention convention a large meeting, especially of members of a political party; a legislative assembly in certain countries conventions (nom|acc|voc) , καὶ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Conjunction
καί
και
indecl
and/also and/also ἐν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Preposition
ἐν
εν
indecl
in/among (+dat) in/among (+dat) ταῖς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Article (Definite)
ὁ ἡ τό
τ·αις
fem dat pl
the the (dat) συναγωγαῖς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (1st Decl.)
συν·αγωγή, -ῆς, ἡ
συναγωγ·αις
(fem) dat pl
gathering gatherings (dat) αὐτῶν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (3rd Person)
αὐτός αὐτή αὐτό
αυτ·ων
fem gen pl or mas gen pl or neu gen pl
he/she/it/same them/same (gen) μαστιγώσουσιν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
μαστιγόω (μαστιγ(&#959-, μαστιγω·σ-, μαστιγω·σ-, -, μεμαστιγω-, μαστιγω·θ-)
μαστιγω·σουσι(&#957, μαστιγω·σου[ντ]·σι(&#957
fut act ind 3rd pl, fut act ptcp mas dat pl or fut act ptcp neu dat pl
to castigate REPRIMAND, rebuke, admonish, chastise, chide, upbraid, reprove, reproach, scold, berate, take to task, lambaste they-will-CASTIGATE, going-to-CASTIGATE (fut ptcp) (dat) ὑμᾶς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (2nd Person)
σύ, σοῦ (σο&#965, σοί (σο&#953, σέ (σ&#949, pl. ὑμεῖς, ὑμῶν, ὑμῖν, ὑμᾶς
υμας
acc pl
you you(pl) (acc) · [/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:19

οταν δε παραδιδωσιν υμας μη μεριμνησητε πως η τι λαλησητε δοθησεται γαρ υμιν εν εκεινη τη ωρα τι λαλησετε

when but they-deliver-over you don't worry how or what you-say he-will-give for you in that the hour what you-are-saying

But when they turn you in, don't worry about how you will speak or what you will say for he will give you what to say in that hour.

 

[he-man]

Matthew 10:18

και επι ηγεμονας δε και βασιλεις αχθησεσθε ενεκεν εμου εις μαρτυριον αυτοις και τοις εθνεσιν

and to governors but and kings brought for me into witness them and the nations

You will be brought and placed before governors and also kings for a witness about me for them and the other nations.

ἀχθήσεσθε?

ἄγω (led)
τίθημι? (placed)

Mat 10:18 και επι ηγεμονας δε και βασιλεις αχθησεσθε ενεκεν εμου εις μαρτυριον αυτοις και τοις εθνεσιν

Mat 10:18 And you will be led before governors and also regality owing on behalf of me, for a testimony to them and the Gentiles.

Lemma άγω αχθησεσθε αζω, αγωγή lead, bring, conduct, personal behavior; a way of acting, to drive, prosecution, action, treatment, education

 

[he-man]

Matthew 10:19

οταν δε παραδιδωσιν υμας μη μεριμνησητε πως η τι λαλησητε δοθησεται γαρ υμιν εν εκεινη τη ωρα τι λαλησετε

when but they-deliver-over you don't worry how or what you-say he-will-give for you in that the hour what you-are-saying

But when they turn you in, don't worry about how you will speak or what you will say for he will give you what to say in that hour.

Mat 10:19 οταν δε παραδωσιν υμας μη μεριμνησητε πως η τι λαλησητε δοθησεται γαρ υμιν εν εκεινη τη ωρα τι λαλησητε

Mat 10:19 But when they give you over, take not care of how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you from at that place that hour what you shall speak.


19 Ὅταν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Particle
ὅταν (ὅτε ἄ&#957
οταν
indecl
whenever whenever δὲ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Particle
δέ
δε
indecl
But also
δ’ before ἄν [plus two occurrences before αὐτό: Mt 27:44; Phil 2:18] But also { παραδιδῶσιν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
παρα·δίδωμι (ath. παρα+διδ(&#959-/ath. παρα+διδ(&#969-, παρα+δω·σ-, παρα+δω·κ- or 2nd ath. παρα+δ(&#959-/ath. παρα+δ(&#969-, παρα+δεδω·κ-, παρα+δεδο-, παρα+δο·θ-)
παρα·διδ(&#959·^σι(&#957, παρα·διδ(&#969·ωσι(&#957
pres act ind 3rd sg, pres act sub 3rd pl
to give over give you over he/she/it-is-GIVE OVER-ing, they-should-be-GIVE OVER-ing ♦ παραδῶσιν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
παρα·δίδωμι (ath. παρα+διδ(&#959-/ath. παρα+διδ(&#969-, παρα+δω·σ-, παρα+δω·κ- or 2nd ath. παρα+δ(&#959-/ath. παρα+δ(&#969-, παρα+δεδω·κ-, παρα+δεδο-, παρα+δο·θ-)
παρα·δ(&#969·ωσι(&#957
2aor act sub 3rd pl
to give over give you over they-should-GIVE OVER } ὑμᾶς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (2nd Person)
σύ, σοῦ (σο&#965, σοί (σο&#953, σέ (σ&#949, pl. ὑμεῖς, ὑμῶν, ὑμῖν, ὑμᾶς
υμας
acc pl
you you(pl) (acc) , μὴ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Particle
μή
μη
indecl
not not μεριμνήσητε [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
μεριμνάω (μεριμν(&#945-, μεριμνη·σ-, μεριμνη·σ-, -, -, -)
μεριμνη·σητε
1aor act sub 2nd pl
to take care of you(pl)-should-TAKE CARE OF πῶς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Particle
πῶς[1]
πως
indecl
how how ἢ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Particle
ἤ[1]
η
indecl
or or τί [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (Interrogative)
τί[ν]ς[1] τί[ν], gen. τίνος, dat. τίνι, acc. τίνα τί
τι[ν]
neu nom|acc sg
who/what/why interrogative pronoun: who? what? why? etc. who/what/why (nom|acc) λαλήσητε [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
λαλέω (λαλ(&#949-, λαλη·σ-, λαλη·σ-, λελαλη·κ-, λελαλη-, λαλη·θ-)
λαλη·σητε
1aor act sub 2nd pl
to speak/talk you(pl)-should-SPEAK/TALK · δοθήσεται [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
δίδωμι (ath. διδ(&#959-/ath. διδ(&#969-, δω·σ-, δω·κ- or 2nd ath. δ(&#959-/ath. δ(&#969-, δεδω·κ-, δεδο-, δο·θ-)
δο·θησεται
fut θη ind 3rd sg
to give he/she/it-will-be-GIVE-ed γὰρ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Conjunction
γάρ
γαρ
indecl
for for ὑμῖν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (2nd Person)
σύ, σοῦ (σο&#965, σοί (σο&#953, σέ (σ&#949, pl. ὑμεῖς, ὑμῶν, ὑμῖν, ὑμᾶς
υμιν
dat pl
you you(pl) (dat) ἐν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Preposition
ἐν
εν
indecl
at, in εν prep. at, in; adv. wherein; σε pron. thee and prep. in, into, among at, in ἐκείνῃ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Determiner (Demonstrative)
ἐκεῖνος -η -ο
εκειν·ῃ
fem dat sg
from that place from that place (dat) τῇ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Article (Definite)
ὁ ἡ τό
τ·ῃ
fem dat sg
the the (dat) ὥρᾳ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (1st Decl.)
ὥρα, -ας, ἡ
ωρ·ᾳ
(fem) dat sg
hour hour (dat) τί [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (Interrogative)
τί[ν]ς[1] τί[ν], gen. τίνος, dat. τίνι, acc. τίνα τί
τι[ν]
neu nom|acc sg
who/what/why interrogative pronoun: who? what? why? etc. who/what/why (nom|acc) { λαλήσετε [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
λαλέω (λαλ(&#949-, λαλη·σ-, λαλη·σ-, λελαλη·κ-, λελαλη-, λαλη·θ-)
λαλη·σετε
fut act ind 2nd pl
to speak/talk you(pl)-will-SPEAK/TALK λαλήσητε [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
λαλέω (λαλ(&#949-, λαλη·σ-, λαλη·σ-, λελαλη·κ-, λελαλη-, λαλη·θ-)
λαλη·σητε
1aor act sub 2nd pl
to speak/talk you(pl)-should-SPEAK/TALK

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:20

ου γαρ υμεις εστε οι λαλουντες αλλα το πνευμα του πατρος υμων το λαλουν εν υμιν

not for you are those speaking but the spirit the father your who speaks in you

For it is not all of you who are speaking, but the spirit of your father who speaks for all of you.

I wish english had a plural pronoun. 'It's not y'all' or 'who speaks for youse'.

 

[Radagast]

... 'who speaks for youse'.

Fingernails on blackboard.

 

[Timothew]

Fingernails on blackboard.

What do you think of "The Message" by Eugene Peterson?

Sometimes I get that "fingernails on blackboard" reaction to some of his stuff.

 

[Radagast]

What do you think of "The Message" by Eugene Peterson?

Sometimes I get that "fingernails on blackboard" reaction to some of his stuff.

Sometimes I think "what was he smoking?" but sometimes I really like it.

As a way of translating loosely but hitting the reader between the eyes with the meaning, it can be very good. The NT is, after all, not written in fancy literary Greek, but in tell-it-like-it-is Koine, and sometimes Peterson captures the meaning very well.

Peterson's Eat This Book: A Conversation in the Art of Spiritual Reading explains where he's coming from.

One example:

ESV: ... they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

The Message: Don't be upset when they haul you before the civil authorities. Without knowing it, they've done you—and me—a favor, given you a platform for preaching the kingdom news! And don't worry about what you'll say or how you'll say it. The right words will be there; the Spirit of your Father will supply the words.

I like "haul you before the civil authorities" as a loose punchy translation. I'm not quite so wild about "Without knowing it, they've done you—and me—a favor, given you a platform for preaching the kingdom news!" because it editorialises too much, but it does at least make the reader think about what "to bear witness before them" means.

 

[Timothew]

I agree. Sometimes I really like it, sometimes I wonder about it.

 

[he-man]

As a way of translating loosely but hitting the reader between the eyes with the meaning, it can be very good. The NT is, after all, not written in fancy literary Greek, but in tell-it-like-it-is Koine, and sometimes Peterson captures the meaning very well. One example: ESV: ... they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

The Message: Don't be upset when they haul you before the civil authorities. Without knowing it, they've done you—and me—a favor, given you a platform for preaching the kingdom news! And don't worry about what you'll say or how you'll say it. The right words will be there; the Spirit of your Father will supply the words.

Verb
παρα·δίδωμι (ath. παρα+διδ(&#959-/ath. παρα+διδ(&#969-, παρα+δω·σ-, παρα+δω·κ- or 2nd ath. παρα+δ(&#959-/ath. παρα+δ(&#969-, παρα+δεδω·κ-, παρα+δεδο-, παρα+δο·θ-)
παρα·διδ(&#959·^σι(&#957, παρα·διδ(&#969·ωσι(&#957
pres act ind 3rd sg, pres act sub 3rd pl
to give over give you over he/she/it-is-GIVE OVER-ing, they-should-be-GIVE OVER-ing ♦ παραδῶσιν [lexicon][inflect][close]

 

[Radagast]

Verb
παρα·δίδωμι (ath. παρα+διδ(&#959-/ath. παρα+διδ(&#969-, παρα+δω·σ-, παρα+δω·κ- or 2nd ath. παρα+δ(&#959-/ath. παρα+δ(&#969-, παρα+δεδω·κ-, παρα+δεδο-, παρα+δο·θ-)
παρα·διδ(&#959·^σι(&#957, παρα·διδ(&#969·ωσι(&#957
pres act ind 3rd sg, pres act sub 3rd pl
to give over give you over he/she/it-is-GIVE OVER-ing, they-should-be-GIVE OVER-ing ♦ παραδῶσιν [lexicon][inflect][close]

I don't think that relates to anything we were saying, and it reflects an incorrect idea that Greek words have just one English equivalent.

If you are interested in the meanings of that verb, you may find Thayer's lexicon or the LSJ helpful.

 

[he-man]

Matthew 10:20

ου γαρ υμεις εστε οι λαλουντες αλλα το πνευμα του πατρος υμων το λαλουν εν υμιν

not for you are those speaking but the spirit the father your who speaks in you

For it is not all of you who are speaking, but the spirit of your father who speaks for all of you.

I wish english had a plural pronoun. 'It's not y'all' or 'who speaks for youse'.

Mat 10:20 ου γαρ υμεις εστε οι λαλουντες αλλα το πνευμα του πατρος υμων το λαλουν εν υμιν

Mat 10:20 For you are not the one who speaks, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

οἱ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Article (Definite)
ὁ ἡ τό
[τ]·οι
mas nom pl
the the (nom) λαλοῦντες [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
λαλέω (λαλ(&#949-, λαλη·σ-, λαλη·σ-, λελαλη·κ-, λελαλη-, λαλη·θ-)
λαλ(&#949·ο[υ]ντ·ες
pres act ptcp mas nom|voc pl
to speak/talk while SPEAK/TALK-ing (nom|voc)

 

[Timothew]

For y'all aren't the ones doing the speaking, but the spirit of all y'alls father who speaks in y'all.

 

[Radagast]

For y'all aren't the ones doing the speaking, but the spirit of all y'alls father who speaks in y'all.

Ouch!

Still, I can imagine places where the pastor might need to reword it that way.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:21

παραδωσει δε αδελφος αδελφον εις θανατον και πατηρ τεκνον και επαναστησονται τεκνα επι γονεις και θανατωσουσιν αυτους

Give-over but brother brother into death and father child and stand-against children upon parents and they-will-kill them

But a brother will deliver his own brother to death; Likewise a father, his child. The children will also stand against their parents and put them to death.