Matthew 1:1

[Radagast]

... αδελφος αδελφον ...

There's grammar in action!

... ἐπαναστήσονται ...

Thayer's Lexicon renders that verb "rise up against," derived from ἐπί (in this context = "against") and from ἀνίστημι = "to rise/stand up," derived in turn from ἀνά (with its original meaning of "up") and from ἵστημι = "to stand."

But a brother will deliver his own brother to death; Likewise a father, his child. The children will also stand against their parents and put them to death.

Almost perfect, I think, but I would say: But a brother will deliver his own brother to death; Likewise a father, his child. Children will also rise up against their parents and put them to death.

 

[Timothew]

There's grammar in action!

Uggh

αδελφος Nomitive Case

αδελφον Accusative Case

 

[Radagast]

Uggh

αδελφος Nomitive Case

αδελφον Accusative Case

Exactly, subject and predicate together without any confusion!

And, by the way, since we've been discussing compound verbs with prepositions in them, here are the prepositions (although without the case-based changes in meaning):

 

[Timothew]

I hoping that by reading greek every day, I can pick up the grammar as a child would pick up his parent's language. Not "this is nomative case, therefore it is the subject," just being immersed in it and absorbing it. My parents spoke english correctly so when I took english grammar it wasn't difficult. Some of my friends had bad speech habits to overcome. I read about a chapter a day.

 

[Radagast]

I hoping that by reading greek every day, I can pick up the grammar as a child would pick up his parent's language...

I did it the old-fashioned way, chanting λύω λύεις λύει λύομεν λύετε λύουσιν

 

[he-man]

Matthew 10:21

παραδωσει δε αδελφος αδελφον εις θανατον και πατηρ τεκνον και επαναστησονται τεκνα επι γονεις και θανατωσουσιν αυτους

Give-over but brother brother into death and father child and stand-against children upon parents and they-will-kill them

But a brother will deliver his own brother to death; Likewise a father, his child. The children will also stand against their parents and put them to death.

Mat 10:21 παραδωσει δε αδελφος αδελφον εις θανατον και πατηρ τεκνον και επαναστησονται τεκνα επι γονεις και θανατωσουσιν αυτους

Mat 10:21 And the brother shall give over the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rebel against their parents, and they will put them to death.

επαναστατώ rebel, revolt

 

[Radagast]

επαναστατώ rebel, revolt

According to who, exactly? The verb in the text is ἐπανίστημι (in the future middle). As far as I can tell, επαναστατώ is a modern Greek word, not a classical or Koine word at all, so I suspect you're just confusing Timothew unnecessarily.

The NIV translates the verb as "rebel" here, but (as per Thayer's) "rise up against" is more literally correct. That's what ἐπ-αν-ίστημι means, and that's what the ESV, for example, has.

 

[he-man]

According to who, exactly? The verb in the text is ἐπανίστημι (in the future middle). As far as I can tell, επαναστατώ is a modern Greek word, not a classical or Koine word at all, so I suspect you're just confusing Timothew unnecessarily.

The NIV translates the verb as "rebel" here, but (as per Thayer's) "rise up against" is more literally correct. That's what ἐπ-αν-ίστημι means, and that's what the ESV, for example, has.

Louw-Nida Gloss Section rebel against 39.34
The Greek New Testament 4th Revised Edition 2007 Pp.66 ερανισταμαι turn against rebel against
Matthew 10:21 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
21 “Brother will hand over brother to death; a father will hand over his child. Children will rebel against their parents and kill them.

Matthew 10:21 Today's New International Version (TNIV)21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.

επανα·στη·σονται or ἐπ·αν·ίστημι 21 Παραδώσει [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
παρα·δίδωμι (ath. παρα+διδ(&#959-/ath. παρα+διδ(&#969-, παρα+δω·σ-, παρα+δω·κ- or 2nd ath. παρα+δ(&#959-/ath. παρα+δ(&#969-, παρα+δεδω·κ-, παρα+δεδο-, παρα+δο·θ-)
παρα·δω·σει
fut act ind 3rd sg or fut mp ind 2nd sg classical
to give over give you over he/she/it-will-GIVE OVER, you(sg)-will-be-GIVE OVER-ed (classical) δὲ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Particle
δέ
δε
indecl
But also
δ’ before ἄν [plus two occurrences before αὐτό: Mt 27:44; Phil 2:18] But also ἀδελφὸς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (2nd Decl.)
ἀδελφός, -οῦ, ὁ, voc. pl. ἀδελφοί
αδελφ·ος
(mas) nom sg
brother brother (nom) ἀδελφὸν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (2nd Decl.)
ἀδελφός, -οῦ, ὁ, voc. pl. ἀδελφοί
αδελφ·ον
(mas) acc sg
brother brother (acc) εἰς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Preposition
εἰς[1]
εις
indecl
into (+acc) into (+acc) θάνατον [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (2nd Decl.)
θάνατος, -ου, ὁ
θανατ·ον
(mas) acc sg
death death (acc) , καὶ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Conjunction
καί
και
indecl
and/also and/also πατὴρ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (3rd Decl.)
πατήρ, -τ[ε]ρός, ὁ, voc. pl. πατέρες
πατερ·^
(mas) nom sg
father father (nom) τέκνον [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (2nd Decl.)
τέκνον, -ου, τό, voc. sg. τέκνον, voc. pl. τέκνα
τεκν·ον
(neu) nom|acc|voc sg
child child (nom|acc|voc) · καὶ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Conjunction
καί
και
indecl
and/also and/also ἐπαναστήσονται [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
ἐπ·αν·ίστημι (ath. επαν+ιστ(&#945-/ath. επαν+ιστ(&#951-, επανα+στη·σ-, επανα+στη·σ- or 2nd ath. επανα+στ(&#951-/ath. επανα+στ(&#945-, επανα+εστη·κ-, -, -)
επανα·στη·σονται
fut mp ind 3rd pl
to rebel they-will-be-REBEL-ed τέκνα [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (2nd Decl.)
τέκνον, -ου, τό, voc. sg. τέκνον, voc. pl. τέκνα
τεκν·α
(neu) nom|acc|voc pl
child children (nom|acc|voc) ἐπὶ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Preposition
ἐπί
επι
indecl
upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat)
ἐπ’ before smooth breathing
ἐφ’ before rough breathing upon/over (+acc,+gen,+dat) γονεῖς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Noun (3rd Decl.)
γονεύς, -έως, ὁ
γον(ε&#965·ες, γον(ε&#965·ας
(mas) nom|voc pl, (mas) acc pl
parent parents (acc, nom|voc) , καὶ [lexicon][inflect][close]
Conjunction
καί
και
indecl
and/also and/also θανατώσουσιν [lexicon][inflect][close]
Verb
θανατόω (θανατ(&#959-, θανατω·σ-, θανατω·σ-, -, τεθανατω-, θανατω·θ-)
θανατω·σουσι(&#957, θανατω·σου[ντ]·σι(&#957
fut act ind 3rd pl, fut act ptcp mas dat pl or fut act ptcp neu dat pl
to put to death they-will-PUT-TO-DEATH, going-to-PUT (fut ptcp) (dat) αὐτούς [lexicon][inflect][close]
Pronoun (3rd Person)
αὐτός αὐτή αὐτό
αυτ·ους
mas acc pl
he/she/it/same them/same (acc) .

 

[Radagast]

he-man, part of that wall of text seems to be an admission that I was right about ἐπανίστημι, part seems to repeat what I said about the NIV, and part seems to be an irrelevant cut-and-paste from a poor-quality lexicon of some kind.

Could you try writing in sentences, please?

 

[Timothew]

I did it the old-fashioned way, chanting λύω λύεις λύει λύομεν λύετε λύουσιν

There's learning to parse verbs and also knowing Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, Vocative. (Never Go Downtown After Vincent, NGDAV)
Then what else? It gets into a lot of sheer memorization. Then learn where all the exceptions are. I have time, and seeing how the words are used in different contexts really helps. I'm not saying your way doesn't work, it just isn't the way I learn, or the way I want to learn. I don't need to learn this in one semester, I can gradually improve. I've made a lot of progress in three years, right?
ἓν οἶδα, ὅτι τυφλὸς ὢν ἄρτι βλέπω
τί δὲ βλέπεις τὸ κάρφος
Τῇ ἐπαύριον βλέπει τὸν Ἰησοῦν
λέγετε ὅτι Βλέπομεν
ὀφθαλμοὺς ἔχοντες οὐ βλέπετε
ὡς οὖν ἀπέβησαν εἰς τὴν γῆν βλέπουσιν ἀνθρακιὰν κειμένην

 

[Radagast]

I've made a lot of progress in three years, right?

You sure have. Your way wouldn't work for me, though.

 

[Timothew]

And, by the way, since we've been discussing compound verbs with prepositions in them, here are the prepositions (although without the case-based changes in meaning):

This is great!

 

[Timothew]

I bought Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon from a used bookstore a few years ago. It's about a hundred years old. This was written inside the back cover:

THIS IS GREEK & HOW THEY SPELT HER:-
Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta,
Episilon, Zeta,
Eta, Theta,
Then Iota, Kappa too
Followed up by Lambda, Mu,
Nu, Xi,
Omicron, Pi,
After that Rho, Sigma, Tau,
Upsilon, Phi & still three more
Chi, Psi & Omega's 24.
​

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:22

και εσεσθε μισουμενοι υπο παντων δια το ονομα μου ο δε υπομεινας εις τελος ουτος σωθησεται

and you-will-be hated by all through the name my the but remain-under (endure) into end he will-be-saved

and you will be hated by everyone because of my name but those who endure until the end will be saved,

 

[Timothew]

Your way wouldn't work for me, though.

Those who endure until the end will learn to read greek.

 

[Radagast]

I bought Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon from a used bookstore a few years ago.

I use the online version a lot. It covers all of classical Greek, not just Koine, but I think that sheds a useful light on things.

 

[he-man]

he-man, part of that wall of text seems to be an admission that I was right about ἐπανίστημι, part seems to repeat what I said about the NIV, and part seems to be an irrelevant cut-and-paste from a poor-quality lexicon of some kind.

Could you try writing in sentences, please?

Poor quality? Robinson-Pierpont 2005
Louw-Nida Gloss Section rebel against 39.34

The Greek New Testament 4th Revised Edition 2007 Pp.66 ερανισταμαι turn against rebel against

Matthew 10:21 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
21 “Brother will hand over brother to death; a father will hand over his child. Children will rebel against their parents and kill them.

Matthew 10:21 Today's New International Version (TNIV)21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.

 

[Timothew]

Hi Roy

I'm not familiar with the Luow-Nida Lexicon.

 

[Timothew]

I use the online version a lot. It covers all of classical Greek, not just Koine, but I think that sheds a useful light on things.

Do you have a link to the online LSJ? I used to have it favorited, but IDK, something happened.

 

[he-man]

Matthew 10:22

και εσεσθε μισουμενοι υπο παντων δια το ονομα μου ο δε υπομεινας εις τελος ουτος σωθησεται

and you-will-be hated by all through the name my the but remain-under (endure) into end he will-be-saved

and you will be hated by everyone because of my name but those who endure until the end will be saved,

Mat 10:22 και εσεσθε μισουμενοι υπο παντων δια το ονομα μου ο δε υπομεινας εις τελος ουτος σωθησεται

Mat 10:22 and you will be detested by all because of my name, but he who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.

2nd person future middle indicative plural ἔσεσθε you will be

ο demonstrative pronoun: nominative singular masculine
ουτος demonstrative pronoun: nominative singular masculine

The two above must agree in gender!