Matthew 1:1

[createdtoworship]

Matthew 9:32

αυτων δε εξερχομενων ιδου προσηνεγκαν αυτω ανθρωπον κωφον δαιμονιζομενον

They but going-out behold they-brought-to him man mute being-afflicted-by-a-daimon.

As they were going out, some people brought him a mute man who was being afflicted by a daimon.

δαιμονιζόμενον from δαιμονίζομαι

Strong's is more helpful than Thayer's on this.
To be afflicted by an evil spirit, to be a demoniac.

Quoting Strong's

It is much disputed whether the writers of the NT used this word to denote the actual presence of evil spirits in the persons affected, or whether they employed it only in compliance with popular usage and belief, just as we now use the word "lunatic" without assenting to the old opinion of the influence of the moon. A serious difficulty in the way of this latter supposition is that the demoniacs everywhere at once address Jesus as the Messiah.
​

Thayer's

δαιμονίζομαι; 1 aorist passive participle δαιμονισθείς; (δαίμων to be under the power of a demon: ἄλλος κατ' ἄλλην δαιμονίζεται τυχην, Philemon 1 in Stobaeus, ecl. phys. 1, p. 196; of the insane, Plutarch, symp. 7, 5, 4, and in other later authors. In the N. T. δαιμονιζόμενοι are persons afflicted with especially severe diseases, either bodily or mental (such as paralysis, blindness, deafness, loss of speech, epilepsy, melancholy, insanity, etc.), whose bodies in the opinion of the Jews demons (see δαιμόνιο&#957 had entered, and so held possession of them as not only to afflict them with ills, but also to dethrone the reason and take its place themselves; accordingly, the possessed were accustomed to express the mind and consciousness of the demons dwelling in them; and their cure was thought to require the expulsion of the demon — (but on this subject see B. D. American edition under the word Demoniacs and references there; Weiss, Leben Jesu, book iii., chapter 6)

​

well why was a demon cast out and a resultant healing occur? If it's only epilepsy? Or some other disease?

here is more clarity in a parallel passsage in luke

Luke 11:14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered. 15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebubd the chief of the devils. 16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven. 17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them

The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Lk 11:14-17

Jesus didn't fall prey to the local customs, He was smarter than the typical Jews (I believe He was all knowing).

 

[he-man]

Matthew 9:32

αυτων δε εξερχομενων ιδου προσηνεγκαν αυτω ανθρωπον κωφον δαιμονιζομενον

They but going-out behold they-brought-to him man mute being-afflicted-by-a-daimon.

As they were going out, some people brought him a mute man who was being afflicted by a daimon.

δαιμονιζόμενον from δαιμονίζομαι

In the N. T. δαιμονιζόμενοι are persons afflicted with especially severe diseases, either bodily or mental (such as paralysis, blindness, deafness, loss of speech, epilepsy, melancholy, insanity, etc.),

Mat 9:32 αυτων δε εξερχομενων ιδου προσηνεγκαν αυτω ανθρωπον κωφον δαιμονιζομενον
Mat 9:32 But as they went out, behold, they brought to him a man who was a fate appointed mute.

δαιμονίζομαι fate appointed Philem.191 δαιμονι-άζομαι ,
A. = δαιμονίζομαι 111, PMag.Par.1.3007.
Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon

Note: the word δαίμονας = demon, is not in the manuscripts

​

 

[Timothew]

I'm having trouble reading that!
Where is the verse on that manuscript?

 

[he-man]

I'm having trouble reading that!
Where is the verse on that manuscript?

first column on the left, 2 lines up from the bottom is where it starts. I have to use a lower case w but it is actually UPPER Case in the manuscript.
ΑΥΤωΝ ΔΕ ΕξΕΡΧΟΜΕΝωΝ
they but were going out

 

[Timothew]

first column on the left, 2 lines up from the bottom is where it starts. I have to use a lower case w but it is actually UPPER Case in the manuscript.
ΑΥΤωΝ ΔΕ ΕξΕΡΧΟΜΕΝωΝ
they but were going out

Thanks,

So just to play "devil's advocate" as it were ,
why do you say that DAIMONAS is not in the manuscript?
On the second line of the second column, after the first 3 letters I see DAIMONIZO? followed by NON.
Isn't that δαιμονιζομενον? Is that close enough to daimonas to say a devil is in there?

 

[createdtoworship]

well why was a demon cast out and a resultant healing occur? If it's only epilepsy? Or some other disease?

here is more clarity in a parallel passsage in luke

Luke 11:14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered. 15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebubd the chief of the devils. 16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven. 17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them

The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Lk 11:14-17

Jesus didn't fall prey to the local customs, He was smarter than the typical Jews (I believe He was all knowing).

thanks for ignoring, unsubscribing.

 

[he-man]

Thanks,

So just to play "devil's advocate" as it were ,
why do you say that DAIMONAS is not in the manuscript?
On the second line of the second column, after the first 3 letters I see DAIMONIZO? followed by NON.
Isn't that δαιμονιζομενον? Is that close enough to daimonas to say a devil is in there?unable to speak Originally Posted by Timothew δαιμονιζόμενον from δαιμονίζομαι

Didn't you say, "δαιμονιζόμενον from δαιμονίζομαι"

Since there are no literal demons, I translate it as, "mute, while being fate appointed."

A mute is a person who is unable to speak, I would assume from a birth defect appointed by fate.
δαιμονίζομαι fate appointed Philem.191 δαιμονι-άζομαι ,
A. = δαιμονίζομαι 111, PMag.Par.1.3007.

What I said was, "the word δαίμονας = demon, is not in the manuscript".

 

[Timothew]

Didn't you say, "δαιμονιζόμενον from δαιμονίζομαι"

Since there are no literal demons, I translate it as, "mute, while being fate appointed."

A mute is a person who is unable to speak, I would assume from a birth defect appointed by fate.
δαιμονίζομαι fate appointed Philem.191 δαιμονι-άζομαι ,
A. = δαιμονίζομαι 111, PMag.Par.1.3007.

What I said was, "the word δαίμονας = demon, is not in the manuscript".

I admit, you did say that. But (please excuse me!) isn't "since there are no literal demons" begging the question? As is "appointed by fate." I don't believe in the fates any more than demons. (I am holding off believing or not believing in demons, for now.)

 

[he-man]

I admit, you did say that. But (please excuse me!) isn't "since there are no literal demons" begging the question? As is "appointed by fate." I don't believe in the fates any more than demons. (I am holding off believing or not believing in demons, for now.)

Do you think genetic structure is hereditary and controlled by God or controlled by demons?

Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

 

[Timothew]

Do you think genetic structure is hereditary and controlled by God or controlled by demons?

Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

So when you say "appointed by fate", you don't mean these lovely ladies?

 

[Timothew]

thanks for ignoring, unsubscribing.

I couldn't answer. I'm still ignorant. It's risky for me to reply to you on topics that I am an expert in. I wish you would stay and debate He-man, here or on another thread on the topic of demons. It's interesting. I'm just not qualified to have an opinion yet.

 

[he-man]

So when you say "appointed by fate", you don't mean these lovely ladies?

Exactly, who maketh the dumb? Exo 4:11

 

[createdtoworship]

I couldn't answer. I'm still ignorant. It's risky for me to reply to you on topics that I am an expert in. I wish you would stay and debate He-man, here or on another thread on the topic of demons. It's interesting. I'm just not qualified to have an opinion yet.

fair enough

 

[createdtoworship]

Mat 9:32 αυτων δε εξερχομενων ιδου προσηνεγκαν αυτω ανθρωπον κωφον δαιμονιζομενον
Mat 9:32 But as they went out, behold, they brought to him a man who was a fate appointed mute.

δαιμονίζομαι fate appointed Philem.191 δαιμονι-άζομαι ,
A. = δαιμονίζομαι 111, PMag.Par.1.3007.
Henry George Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon

Note: the word δαίμονας = demon, is not in the manuscripts

​

well why was a demon cast out and a resultant healing occur? If it's only epilepsy? Or some other disease?

here is more clarity in a parallel passsage in luke

Luke 11:14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered. 15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebubd the chief of the devils. 16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven. 17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them

The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Lk 11:14-17

Jesus didn't fall prey to the local customs, He was smarter than the typical Jews (I believe He was all knowing).

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 9:33

και εκβληθεντος του δαιμονιου ελαλησεν ο κωφος και εθαυμασαν οι οχλοι λεγοντες ουδεποτε εφανη ουτως εν τω ισραηλ

and was-thrown-out the daimoniou spoke the mute and marveled the crowd saying never revealed such in the Israel.

and the damimoniou was thrown out. The mute spoke and the crowd was amazed, saying "never was such a thing revealed in Israel!"

daimonion: an evil spirit, a demon​

Original Word: δαιμόνιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: daimonion
Phonetic Spelling: (dahee-mon'-ee-on)
Short Definition: an evil-spirit, demon
Definition: an evil-spirit, demon; a heathen deity.
(Strong's)

 

[Timothew]

Exactly, who maketh the dumb? Exo 4:11

God?

 

[pinkfuzzies]

Cool! Is that the Hebrew language?

 

[Timothew]

Cool! Is that the Hebrew language?

No, it's greek.

 

[createdtoworship]

Matthew 9:33

και εκβληθεντος του δαιμονιου ελαλησεν ο κωφος και εθαυμασαν οι οχλοι λεγοντες ουδεποτε εφανη ουτως εν τω ισραηλ

and was-thrown-out the daimoniou spoke the mute and marveled the crowd saying never revealed such in the Israel.

and the damimoniou was thrown out. The mute spoke and the crowd was amazed, saying "never was such a thing revealed in Israel!"

daimonion: an evil spirit, a demon​

Original Word: δαιμόνιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: daimonion
Phonetic Spelling: (dahee-mon'-ee-on)
Short Definition: an evil-spirit, demon
Definition: an evil-spirit, demon; a heathen deity.
(Strong's)

I agree, it was a demon expelled. This is why they were healed. Not epilepsy or some other disease (like you have posted on other forums)

 

[Timothew]

I agree, it was a demon expelled. This is why they were healed. Not epilepsy or some other disease (like you have posted on other forums)

Not me.