Matthew 1:1

[Timothew]

Slave is a better fit with master, however, notice that I did capatalize Master just for the fact that the implication is there. It was of course used to imply Christ who is the Master of us, we, who are his slaves..

I was thinking "lord" for kurion not as "Lord God" but as lord of the manor, in keeping with the miniparable Jesus is telling.

 

[Radagast]

I was thinking "lord" for kurion not as "Lord God" but as lord of the manor, in keeping with the miniparable Jesus is telling.

That's a good translation, and that's what the KJV has. Most modern translations use "master" in this verse though, because "lord of the manor" is an older usage that many people are unfamiliar with.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:25

αρκετον τω μαθητη ινα γενηται ως ο διδασκαλος αυτου και ο δουλος ως ο κυριος αυτου ει τον οικοδεσποτην βεελζεβουλ εκαλεσαν ποσω μαλλον τους οικειακους αυτου

Enough the student that becomes as the teacher his and the slave as the lord his if the master-of-the-house Beelzeboul is-called how-much more the family his

It is enough that the student become like his teacher. If the head of the house is called Beelzeboul, how much more his family?

 

[he-man]

Matthew 10:25

αρκετον τω μαθητη ινα γενηται ως ο διδασκαλος αυτου και ο δουλος ως ο κυριος αυτου ει τον οικοδεσποτην βεελζεβουλ εκαλεσαν ποσω μαλλον τους οικειακους αυτου

Enough the student that becomes as the teacher his and the slave as the lord his if the master-of-the-house Beelzeboul is-called how-much more the family his

It is enough that the student become like his teacher. If the head of the house is called Beelzeboul, how much more his family?

Mat 10:25 αρκετον τω μαθητη ινα γενηται ως ο διδασκαλος αυτου και ο δουλος ως ο κυριος αυτου ει τον οικοδεσποτην βεελζεβουλ επεκαλεσαν ποσω μαλλον τους οικιακους αυτου

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the slave as his lord. If they have called upon the despot of the house, Beelzebub, how much more shall they call a member of his household?

 

[Timothew]

Mat 10:25 αρκετον τω μαθητη ινα γενηται ως ο διδασκαλος αυτου και ο δουλος ως ο κυριος αυτου ει τον οικοδεσποτην βεελζεβουλ επεκαλεσαν ποσω μαλλον τους οικιακους αυτου

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the slave as his lord. If they have called upon the despot of the house, Beelzebub, how much more shall they call a member of his household?

I like "despot of the house" since despoten is part of the word οικοδεσποτην. But it would like to think of despot of the house, not in a negative way. The word "despot" is usually negative.

Please forgive this criticism though - It sounds like Beelzebub is the despot of the house in your translation, rather than the despot of the house being called Beelzebub by those who want to discredit him.

(I just left Beelzeboul completely untranslated - a major copout on my part but it isn't really greek, I don't think.)

 

[Timothew]

(I just left Beelzeboul completely untranslated - a major copout on my part but it isn't really greek, I don't think.)

ει τον οικοδεσποτην βεελζεβουλ εκαλεσαν ποσω μαλλον τους οικειακους αυτου

If they call the lord of the house a lord of dung, how much more his household?

Beelzebul in Syriac = "lord of dung", which produces a little pun.

Old Testament zebhubh may have been a perversion, accidental or intentional of zebhul (= "house"), so that Baalzebul meant "lord of the house"

If they call Baal-zebhul Baal-zebhubh...

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:26

μη ουν φοβηθητε αυτους ουδεν γαρ εστιν κεκαλυμμενον ο ουκ αποκαλυφθησεται και κρυπτον ο ου γνωσθησεται

Not then fear them nothing for is covered which not will-be-revealed and secret which not will-be-known.

So don't fear them, for nothing is hidden which will not be revealed and a secret which will not be known.

 

[he-man]

I like "despot of the house" since despoten is part of the word οικοδεσποτην. But it would like to think of despot of the house, not in a negative way. The word "despot" is usually negative.

Please forgive this criticism though - It sounds like Beelzebub is the despot of the house in your translation, rather than the despot of the house being called Beelzebub by those who want to discredit him.

(I just left Beelzeboul completely untranslated - a major copout on my part but it isn't really greek, I don't think.)

It is negative accusative as Baal occupied the Temple.
2Ki 1:2 And Ahaziah fell down through a lattice in his upper chamber that was in Samaria, and was sick: and he sent messengers, and said unto them, Go, enquire of Baal zebub the god of Ekron, "despot of the house" (mas) acc sg

2Ki 23:4 And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.

Rabbinic language, means, not any ordinary dwelling, but specifically the temple ; so that Beelzebul would be Master of the Temple, an expression having reference to the claims of Jesus on his first purification of the temple. He then conceives a play between this word and Beelzibbul, meaning Lord of idolatrous sacrifice, and says: "The Lord of the temple was to them the chief of idolatrous worship; the representative of God, that of the worst of demons. Beelzebulwas Beelzibbul. What, then, might his household expect at their hands?" ("Life and Times of Jesus"). [VWS]

 

[he-man]

Matthew 10:26

μη ουν φοβηθητε αυτους ουδεν γαρ εστιν κεκαλυμμενον ο ουκ αποκαλυφθησεται και κρυπτον ο ου γνωσθησεται

Not then fear them nothing for is covered which not will-be-revealed and secret which not will-be-known.

So don't fear them, for nothing is hidden which will not be revealed and a secret which will not be known.

Mat 10:26 μη ουν φοβηθητε αυτους ουδεν γαρ εστιν κεκαλυμμενον ο ουκ αποκαλυφθησεται και κρυπτον ο ου γνωσθησεται

Mat 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered with a veil, that shall not be uncovered; and hid, that will not be made known.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:27

ο λεγω υμιν εν τη σκοτια ειπατε εν τω φωτι και ο εις το ους ακουετε κηρυξατε επι των δωματων

that-which I-tell you-all in the darkness you-all-should-speak in the light and that-which in the ear you-all-hear you-all-should proclaim upon the roof-tops

The things I'm telling you guys in the darkness you should be speaking in the light, and the things that I'm whispering in your ear you should be shouting from the roof tops.

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:28

και μη φοβεισθε απο των αποκτενοντων το σωμα την δε ψυχην μη δυναμενων αποκτειναι φοβηθητε δε μαλλον τον δυναμενον και [την] ψυχην και [το] σωμα απολεσαι εν γεεννη

and don't fear because-of those they-kill the body the but psyche not can kill you-should-fear but more the can and the psyche and the body destroy in Gehenna

Don't fear those that kill the body but cannot kill the psyche, you should fear more someone who can destroy both the psyche and the body in Gehenna.

ψυχὴν - left untranslated. Insert a definition according to your religious experience.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7595470/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7639024/

 

[Radagast]

ψυχὴν - left untranslated. Insert your own definition according to your religious experience.

Every Bible version I've checked (NIV, ESV, HCSB, CEV, NLT, NASB, NAB, etc.) has "soul" in this verse. The word (cf LSJ) does have a wide range of meaning, but the contrast to "body" limits the choices in translation.

Also, I'd translate τον as "the one" rather than "someone" (which would be τις)

 

[Timothew]

Every Bible version I've checked (NIV, ESV, HCSB, CEV, NLT, NASB, NAB, etc.) has "soul" in this verse. The word (cf LSJ) does have a wide range of meaning, but the contrast to "body" limits the choices in translation.

Also, I'd translate τον as "the one" rather than "someone" (which would be τις)

Yes, "someone" was kind of a departure from literalism, I felt the sentence was more natural that way. To me "the one" strongly implies that "the one" is God himself. I'm not convinced the verse is saying that, but it may be. It seems to be left unsaid in greek. How about "rather fear one who can destroy both psyche and body in Gehenna"?

For psyche, I just wanted to avoid getting into it. There are pages of debates on psyche in CF.

 

[Radagast]

To me "the one" strongly implies that "the one" is God himself.

True, but "the one" is what I think the word τον means here (or, as some translations have it, "him").

If the indefiniteness you suggest were intended, τις would surely be used.

 

[Timothew]

True, but "the one" is what I think the word τον means here (or, as some translations have it, "him").

If the indefiniteness you suggest were intended, τις would surely be used.

perhaps?

 

[Radagast]

perhaps?

Yes, as in, say, Matthew 12:29.

 

[Timothew]

Yes, as in, say, Matthew 12:29.

Matthew 12:29

η πως δυναται τις εισελθειν εις την οικιαν του ισχυρου και τα σκευη αυτου διαρπασαι εαν μη πρωτον δηση τον ισχυρον και τοτε την οικιαν αυτου διαρπασει

Or how can anyone enter into the house of the strongman and seize his goods if he doesn't first bind the strongman and then plunder his house?

I'm not sure what you are getting at, I'm sorry. tis = anyone, ton = the one, is that it?

 

[Timothew]

Matthew 10:29

ουχι δυο στρουθια ασσαριου πωλειται και εν εξ αυτων ου πεσειται επι την γην ανευ του πατρος υμων

are-not two sparrows assarion sold and one of them not will-fall to the ground without the father your

Are not two sparrows sold for a dime? Not one of them will fall to the ground without your father.

ἀσσάριον
a small coin equal to the tenth part of a drachma.
dime
a small coin equal to the tenth part of a dollar.

NIV and others have "penny". Hot cross buns are sold two-a-penny. Sparrows are not buns, I think sparrows sell two for a dime.

 

[Radagast]

NIV and others have "penny". Hot cross buns are sold two-a-penny. Sparrows are not buns, I think sparrows sell two for a dime.

I understand it was 16 assaria to the denarius, and a denarius was a day's pay (say 10 hours at $10/hr = $100 in modern currency). That makes an assarion about $6 -- a bit more than a dime.

If I can try to out-Peterson you:

...Are not chickens sold at the supermarket for a few dollars each? Yet not one of them falls over dead without your Father.

 

[Timothew]

My wife doesn't like the phrase "without your father". Perhaps I should have put "without the assent of your father" or "without your father having them in mind."