mastabating

[iambren]

It's not WHO you are "lusting" for, it's what's in your head and heart. You can sin by lusting after your own wife!

Jesus is simply saying that adultery and sexual sin begin in our minds but to quantify where healthy sexual yearning turns into lust is a very internal, personal thing.

For me the greatest indicator is when I begin to view a human as an object of my pleasure and where my will kicks in to take that illicitly. Some may not like that degree of freedom--I can say "nice butt", "nice boobs", I can imagine making love with her as the tide comes in on the beach. But my mind doesn't rest there. I don't BURN with lust, plan one-liners to seduce her to my den, or buy chloraform to sneak up to take her. She's a person! She lives a life; one that I may harm by my intrusion. So if you burn with desire to have your wife regardless of how she feels or would be affected by it you are sinning, lusting for your wife. We are not to see ANYONE as an object, but a human made in the image of God.

This helps define the whole mb question for me. I'm safe within my bounds and live with a sexuality that respects me and others.

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

It's not WHO you are "lusting" for, it's what's in your head and heart. You can sin by lusting after your own wife!

Jesus is simply saying that adultery and sexual sin begin in our minds but to quantify where healthy sexual yearning turns into lust is a very internal, personal thing.

For me the greatest indicator is when I begin to view a human as an object of my pleasure and where my will kicks in to take that illicitly. Some may not like that degree of freedom--I can say "nice butt", "nice boobs", I can imagine making love with her as the tide comes in on the beach. But my mind doesn't rest there. I don't BURN with lust, plan one-liners to seduce her to my den, or buy chloraform to sneak up to take her. She's a person! She lives a life; one that I may harm by my intrusion. So if you burn with desire to have your wife regardless of how she feels or would be affected by it you are sinning, lusting for your wife. We are not to see ANYONE as an object, but a human made in the image of God.

This helps define the whole mb question for me. I'm safe within my bounds and live with a sexuality that respects me and others.

ehhhhhh. . . . I have to throw my 2c in again. Me personally wouldn't even bother to think of 'making love to her as the tide comes in on the beach'. That could unintentionally lead to more lustful thoughts, I was a former porn addict from age 7 to 13, trust me, I know what I speak of. . . anyways, yeah I'd just refrain from even thinking those thoughts, because once you delve into the unknown you reach a point in which you're being dragged by twelve ship anchors being pulled by the forces of The Incredible Hulk and Goku from Dragon Ball Z. If somebody can become a porn addict at age 7 then sexual sin is a lot more commonly misinterpreted imho and it can cause complacency and will screw you all up in the long run. I could be wrong, if so then please explain me. . . . . . . explaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iambren]

Then how do YOU delineate acceptable sexual thoughts? I understand if porn has been your battle vigilance must be high but surely you must have sexual thoughts throughout the day--what's your guideline?

 

[Brownstoned]

The power of lust is so strong, that people try to spin what Jesus mentions about adultery in Matthew and attempt to convince themselves that what he says it not what he really means. Just the fact that there is this thread about this proves it. That is why people keep going back to Matthew when posting their thoughts on the sin.
Nevertheless, the desire to lust is so significant that humans will look for any flaw possible in Jesus' statements in order to justify their surrender to temptation to fornicate. A perfect God makes no attempt to fool his followers in the words he says. This is why I take every single word in the text seriously and dont question what it (he) says - and if he says sexual thoughts of another person you are not married to are a sin, then I tend to believe him.

 

[Johnnz]

The power of lust is so strong, that people try to spin what Jesus mentions about adultery in Matthew and attempt to convince themselves that what he says it not what he really means. Just the fact that there is this thread about this proves it. That is why people keep going back to Matthew when posting their thoughts on the sin.
Nevertheless, the desire to lust is so significant that humans will look for any flaw possible in Jesus' statements in order to justify their surrender to temptation to fornicate. A perfect God makes no attempt to fool his followers in the words he says. This is why I take every single word in the text seriously and dont question what it (he) says - and if he says sexual thoughts of another person you are not married to are a sin, then I tend to believe him.

But the gap in your thinking is that you don't know exacltly what the text does say, because the original was written in Greek,not English. My post #340 gives more detail.

Also, you need to define 'lust'. I agree that our sex drive is very strong. That's how God made it to be. Thus, all sorts of unnecessary tensions arise when we classify far too much of our natural sexuality as 'lust'. That's calling 'white' 'black' which is just not true.

John
NZ

 

[Blueforest]

For all those that claim it is "sin", I have to ask: Do YOU do it? A simple yes or no shall suffice.

Married people need not reply.

 

[TheDag]

For all those that claim it is "sin", I have to ask: Do YOU do it? A simple yes or no shall suffice.

Married people need not reply.

out of curiosity what does this have to do with anything? Anger is a sin yet I lose my temper. That does not suddenly make it right.

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

Then how do YOU delineate acceptable sexual thoughts? I understand if porn has been your battle vigilance must be high but surely you must have sexual thoughts throughout the day--what's your guideline?

do I? At the most I'll look at some chick & think she's good looking and go on with my day lol. All the extras really aren't necessary.

 

[Blueforest]

out of curiosity what does this have to do with anything? Anger is a sin yet I lose my temper. That does not suddenly make it right.

Just answer the question. I may explain my motives for asking after.

Second, anger is not a sin. I don't know where you heard that from. Anger is a normal emotion common to man and God. Even Jesus the god-man got angry. Are you trying to be better than the angry God of the OT or meek and mild Jesus (who got POed and threw people out of the temple with a whip?)

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

Just answer the question. I may explain my motives for asking after.

Second, anger is not a sin. I don't know where you heard that from. Anger is a normal emotion common to man and God. Even Jesus the god-man got angry. Are you trying to be better than the angry God of the OT or meek and mild Jesus (who got POed and threw people out of the temple with a whip?)

yeah I agree, if getting angry in itself is sinful then God must want us to be monotonous robotic humans. Obviously we shouldn't go around angry all the time, though.

 

[Life2Christ]

I agree that our sex drive is very strong. That's how God made it to be.

....and then you're up the creek without a paddle when you find yourself divorced and encouraged by the church not to remarry. Ah the joys of life.

 

[liars_paradox]

"I bet your definition of lust only includes actively seeking out something. Mine, however, includes sexual fantasy and finding certain things attractive."


I feel sorry for you.

Lol. Thanks, me too.

 

[liars_paradox]

That verse in Matthew's gospel states, (in the Greek) ... a man .. looking with intent i.e. there is a commitment to contemplate doing something wrong morally given the opportunity. That's the biblical standard from what I understand for judging any matter a sin.

Fantasy is wrong when it has an element of wrongful intent. I can have a fantasy about driving a powerful sports car - pure imagination. But imagining how I could steal one is something else.

You sound like you're referring to planning. Yes, imagining a hypothetical scenario is part of planning. But, just imagining the scenario for the pure sake of imagining it, doesn't show anything about intent.

Associating sexual images such as porn and masturbation is clearly wrong because porn is wrong. Period. But that does not necessarily mean a person who masturbates will become a porn addict. Masturbation has several implications, not all of which are healthy. But that does not imply it is always wrong. Some Christians touch without porn, are very careful about what mental images they engage in, and don't let it become a compulsive habit. A blanket condemnation does not take into account such people.

John
NZ

I suppose that you might be right.

 

[liars_paradox]

mark my words in another 50 years, pedophilia will be as common as homsexuality, and pedophiles will be fighting for their rights to seduce children.

Dude, I really don't think that you're right.

Having sex with yourself fits the verse "Lovers of themselves" even the greek word for lover is the one used in describing sexual acts.

Not necessarily. Even the English word for "lover" could also include sexual relations, but not necessarily either. Also, the Greek word for "love" is actually 4 words, each describing a certain degree of love.
I am not an expert at Greek, however, but I decided to look up the word that was used in 2 Timothy 3:2. I found the following word "φίλαυτοι", which is pronounced "philautos" and means "lover of one's self". Or, more specifically, "a lover of self, describing someone preoccupied with their own selfish desires (self-interests)" (Strong's Concordance: Search by Number, Greek, Hebrew or English, 2011).

Looking more closely at the root word, "phil". The Greek word "phil" really refers to "brotherly/friendship love" (Legg, 2009). If the writer of 2 Timothy wanted to mention someone who loved themselves, sexually, then he probably would've went with "eros" to go with the word "autos". But, even then, that wouldn't necessarily mean that it's sexual, but just a form of love that is "intimate".


Sources:

• 5367. philautos. strongnumbers.com (2011). Help Ministries, Inc. Retrieved on August 3, 2011 from Strong's Greek: 5367. φίλαυτος (philautos) -- loving oneself
• 5 Greek words for “Love”. Legg (2009). Retrieved on August 3, 2011 from 5 Greek words for “Love” « Chris Legg, LPC

 

[whatfor]

Just for the record I have no idea anymore if MB is a sin, I guess these threads do not help, they just seem to give comfort because others back up their opinion.

The bible does not seem clear on it, if we knew what was meant by sexual immorality and fornication then maybe that would clear things up.
Sexual immorality is mentioned a lot but I am not convinced this is what it refers to.

 

[TheDag]

Just answer the question. I may explain my motives for asking after.

Second, anger is not a sin. I don't know where you heard that from. Anger is a normal emotion common to man and God. Even Jesus the god-man got angry. Are you trying to be better than the angry God of the OT or meek and mild Jesus (who got POed and threw people out of the temple with a whip?)

I was talking about the hateful kind of anger not righteous anger. I assumed you would realise that. There are different types mentioned in the bible. In any case you can substitute any sin you like for the word anger. So why don't you answer the question? I'm not asking what your motives are but rather what is the relevance of your question.

I can't answer your question as I am married which is clearly displayed in every post I make by the picture of wedding rings. I take it you did not see this.

 

[Rev.Ross]

Masturbation is no sin, especially if your wife can't for various physical reasons. The same goes for a disabled husband. Masturbation would keep a person from having an affair which would be sinful. My wife has surgery in her abdomen and could not have intercourse for several months. What did I do? I masturbated, it helped relieve the sexual tension and kept me faithful to my wife.

Masturbation is also needed for sperm donation. I do not regard sperm donation as a sin, and in fact would like to be a sperm donor. I would like to help an infertile Christian couple have a child. Also I would like to leave a legacy of life, as my wife and I never had children.

SO masturbation is something God gave our bodies to relieve sexual tension, keep us faithful to our spouses, and to help infertile couples (if you are a guy).
Thanks, Rev.Ross

 

[omegadk1]

I think it depends.

You can not think about an other person, other wise it is adultery and kind of like mind raping someone. (sorry for the harshness of that, but it is true) That person is not your spouse, so you do not have the right to be with them intimately.

It is possible to satisfy your self with out mental imagery. Practice it.

I do not believe that as an act, it is sinful, unless you are watching porn, picturing an other person you want to be with, or something along those lines. I think it can be kept pure.

If I am wrong, Jesus will tell me at judgement, and I am still confident in his saving grace, that I do not have to have everything "right" to be saved. He saved me, not the law.

 

[Blueforest]

I think it depends.

You can not think about an other person, other wise it is adultery and kind of like mind raping someone. (sorry for the harshness of that, but it is true) That person is not your spouse, so you do not have the right to be with them intimately.

It is possible to satisfy your self with out mental imagery. Practice it.

I do not believe that as an act, it is sinful, unless you are watching porn, picturing an other person you want to be with, or something along those lines. I think it can be kept pure.

If I am wrong, Jesus will tell me at judgement, and I am still confident in his saving grace, that I do not have to have everything "right" to be saved. He saved me, not the law.

You know, I would be okay with a good looking girl "mind raping" me. Now, if she was not good looking, then I would prefer not. But if she was somebody I'd go for, I would actually find it to be flattering, and even, enticing perhaps.

 

[omegadk1]

You know, I would be okay with a good looking girl "mind raping" me. Now, if she was not good looking, then I would prefer not. But if she was somebody I'd go for, I would actually find it to be flattering, and even, enticing perhaps.

lol I see your point.

We do need to look at it deeper then that, because, if we are all Christ followers here. We are not to be sexually intimate with any other person until we have married them and commited to them in front of family and friends. In our minds does not count... If it did, man.... I would have a lot of wives at 17 !

But instead, I keep my thoughts pure. Which is different while being married. I will be raising my son that it is ok to have release, but he needs to follow christ in the sense of respecting and loving others, and holding to Jesus teaching. I have never found any claim in scripture to be directly or indirectly talking against touching yourself. The only thing against it, was a guy who masterbated so he would not inpregnate his wife, and God struck him down because of the reason, not the act.

All in all, we just need to seek Christ's heart and he will guide us.