mastabating

[Jim2011]

If you find yourself getting frustrated when you debate here, you may want to ask yourself if you are letting the lies of Satan pull you off course. He uses our weakness in one of these three areas.

Finally, there are a group of Christians that is riddled with feelings of guilt, self-doubt, and condemnation. They want so badly to be what God desires, but always come up short. Satan tries to convince them that they aren't good enough for God. They feel broken.

Add in discouraged, frustrated, and confused.


Here's a little quiz to see which way you might lean. As I said above, consider what frustrates you most when reading threads like this.

• If you get angry at judgmental people who try to tell people what to do, you may fall into category #2.
  
• If you get angry at your own inability to get past the sinful barriers in your life, you may fall into category #3.
  

Hummm, I may be parts of 2 and 3

It's not a matter of if, but which one and how much. We all have one of these predispositions, but we can work to control them and reduce their blinding effects. Each one of those lies is a distortion of something good. Doctrine (#1), freedom in Christ (#2), and conviction of the Holy Spirit (#3) are all important. Once we identify our disposition, we should work on developing the other two "good" areas.

.

I believe he makes some good points.

 

[iambren]

"Here's a little quiz to see which way you might lean. As I said above, consider what frustrates you most when reading threads like this.

#1. If you get angry at sinners who try to justify their sinful actions, you may fall into category
#2. If you get angry at judgmental people who try to tell people what to do, you may fall into category
#3. If you get angry at your own inability to get past the sinful barriers in your life, you may fall into category"

(thank you, I enjoyed your post)

BUT, none describes me well, my reply:
1 Sinners are not held to the same standard; they're not the righteous so are irrelevant.
2 I don't know the people AND I'm going to do what I want to anyway.
3 It's not a sin to me, I don't struggle.

My # 4 Would be that what irritates me most is the not thinking and the kneejerk response to anything sexual, the twisting of scripture(ie I don't think Jesus was thinking of mb when he said looking at a woman to lust...), and the laying on guilt to people that want to please God, are in the throes of hormonal puberty and they feel like utter failures when they succumb (which BTW is James Dobson's take on it).
So yeah, that frustrates me.

 

[stiller]

The problem is that so many pastors condemn masturbation. I already once heard a story of a pastor who claimed to have seen hell and hell was filled with christians who didn't want to give up masturbation....
When you hear such things then you automatically become scared and then you try to stop it and it doesn't really work because I doubt many people can live without it continually when they are not married.
And then we also have the married christians and pastors who obviously feel no desire to touch who love ranting against masturbation and play the huge teachers telling others that they must not do it while they themselves probably masturbated up to their wedding to finally "overcome" masturbation once they were married, lol.
I can't take advice from married christians seriously who also masturbated until they got married. How silly is that? That is like getting diet advice from a 300 pound guy who thinks he knows how to eat well.

But the problem is sexual fantasies and thoughts. Can you really consequently keep all sexual thoughts out when masturbating?

 

[Johnnz]

But the problem is sexual fantasies and thoughts. Can you really consequently keep all sexual thoughts out when masturbating?

Not all sexual thoughts are wrong though.

John
NZ

 

[stiller]

Not all sexual thoughts are wrong though.

John
NZ

Oh really? Give me an example of something sexual which an unmarried christian would be allowed to think of while masturbating? I'm really curious now.

 

[Peripatetic]

Oh really? Give me an example of something sexual which an unmarried christian would be allowed to think of while masturbating? I'm really curious now.

Too much repression of fantasy can cause deeper sin and darker thoughts. We shouldn't idolize cars, but it's OK to fantasize about driving on a windy road in a Ferrari. We shouldn't practice magic and witchcraft, but it's OK for a kid to get lost in a Narnia book and fantasize about adventure.

Similarly, we shouldn't engage in premarital sex or lust after a coworker, but our minds are going to wander sometimes... it can happen in healthy or unhealthy ways. A person getting a little turned on by a racy romance novel is probably better than a person who represses to the point where sexual deviance emerges. If you truly believe that you are free in Christ, you'll be able to discern the difference between harmless fantasy and sexual sin, you'll be convicted to avoid the latter, and you shouldn't have to hate your sexuality in the process.

 

[Johnnz]

I'll start with the negative first. It's wrong to imagine doing something explicitly sexual with another person, or to be engaged personally with something that is wrong, such as planning a seduction, visit to a porn site. Or to entertain thoughts that denigrates sex in any way, which can include holding to some of the extreme negativity that some Christian entertain regarding human sexuality.

But it's just an expression of our sexuality to have a basic curiosity about it, about the opposite sex and what they look like, to get sensible information about sexual maturity, and to recognise that there are natural bodily responses and reactions that arise with sexual maturity. It's around these that we must develop values that allow us to maintain our standards, but at the same time understanding that sexual purity must involve active integration of body and soul, hormones and morals. Sexual health and uprightness does not require virtual asexuality, intense repression, constant fear and guilt, incorrect labels such as 'dirty' 'sinful lusts' 'lower nature' or idealisation of an abstract state of 'purity' where most things sexual have no place in our thinking.

Given the God-designed power of adolescent hormonal development young people should be encouraged to think about sex and sexual values very thoroughly, utilising good information, accurate exegesis that presents sex in its rightfully positive light, within an open, shame free discussion. All are all necessary for healthy sexual values prior to and after marriage.

John
NZ

 

[OGM]

Excellent post John!

 

[brinny]

I'll start with the negative first. It's wrong to imagine doing something explicitly sexual with another person, or to be engaged personally with something that is wrong, such as planning a seduction, visit to a porn site. Or to entertain thoughts that denigrates sex in any way, which can include holding to some of the extreme negativity that some Christian entertain regarding human sexuality.

But it's just an expression of our sexuality to have a basic curiosity about it, about the opposite sex and what they look like, to get sensible information about sexual maturity, and to recognise that there are natural bodily responses and reactions that arise with sexual maturity. It's around these that we must develop values that allow us to maintain our standards, but at the same time understanding that sexual purity must involve active integration of body and soul, hormones and morals. Sexual health and uprightness does not require virtual asexuality, intense repression, constant fear and guilt, incorrect labels such as 'dirty' 'sinful lusts' 'lower nature' or idealisation of an abstract state of 'purity' where most things sexual have no place in our thinking.

Given the God-designed power of adolescent hormonal development young people should be encouraged to think about sex and sexual values very thoroughly, utilising good information, accurate exegesis that presents sex in its rightfully positive light, within an open, shame free discussion. All are all necessary for healthy sexual values prior to and after marriage.

John
NZ

Have you read Song of Solomon? Therein lies the explicitness of married love. There has never been shame involved with a love between a man and his wife, before the fall. Both Adam and Eve were naked and were not ashamed. God is not a "prude". He is quite clear that love expressed between a man and his wife is blessed by Him and a beauteous thing.

Young men need mentors. Heroes. Mighty men of valor. Defenders of the faith. Passionate men who love the Lord God with all their hearts, minds, souls, and strength. Fearless leaders who live out in thought, word, and deed, a love for God that is uncompromised, blazing forth with truth that echoes the wisdom that is all throughout Proverbs. Men who will say "as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord".

God challenges us to examine ourselves. Daily. Throughout the day. In the night seasons. In doing so, His Word works in conjunction with us to do this:

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." ~Hebrews 4:12

God invites us to choose. And we do, daily, every hour, every moment. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." ~Ephesians 6:12

We are not on this earth for ourselves, but for God's glory.

Behold, the Lord’S hand is not shortened, That it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, That it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear. Isaiah 59:1 - 2

Sin is a Lack of Love

Sin is selfishness and is always caused by a lack of love for God and man. All of God’s laws are based on love. Anything that is not of love is sin. A good question to ask your self when making a decision is “what would love do”?

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37 - 40

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

When our heart is filled with love for God we will walk in obedience to His voice willingly and with great joy.

“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. John 15:9 - 11

Sin is the Result of the Wrong Desires

Sin begins when we turn our desires away from God and toward other things. Anything we desire more than God is an idol in our heart and will lead to sin.

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:14 - 15

depravity: Moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles

depravity is subtle. It's that frog being perfectly comfortable and happy in that warm water. That's how sin is. Subtle. It blinds us. After all, what's wrong with it? It FEELS good, so what's wrong with it? It's done in secret. In darkness. We don't know that a web is forming slowly but surely. It ensnares us. We listen to our own reasoning, instead of having ears to hear what God says. We no longer embrace Jesus Christ as our first love. (jesus speaks of this in Revelation) Our consciences become dull. We become irritated with the mention of sin. We grudgingly go to church. WE develop an aversion to God and those who speak of Him. The web gets thicker. Self is on the throne. Self's desires become more demanding. THose things that feel good need extra effort "thoughts" to reach that level of pleasure. Self and its desires become insatiable. More "creative" thoughts are looked for to satisfy the desires of the flesh. "Self" has become an idol. And it's a hard task master. It will drive its slave to ever-more demanding ways to satisfy its sensuality. An addiction has surfaced and is in full throttle.

God KNOWS sin. That's why He admonishes us to:

"This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" ~Deuteronomy 30:19

Fearing God means "respecting" Him for Who He is. We have a choice to respect (honor, fear) or disrespect Him. If anything we do "disrespects", "dishonors" Him, is is sin. There is no sitting on the fence, or middle or neutral ground.

God says this about being "lukewarm":

"So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth." ~Revelation 3:16

 

[brinny]

....the thing that most consumes our thoughts is our god....

‪The Slavery of Serving Worldliness (Paul Washer)‬‏ - YouTube

 

[prophecyistrue]

I think the whole matter boils down to self control, you can either control it or you can't, I'm quite sure the pro-MB's are unable to stop or control it, thus they need to have validation for their sin. sin is anything you can't control, over eating, is a good example too, although while over eaters are in bondage to food and their stomaches, the MBrs are in bondage to their own sex organs, they are as the bible calls "lovers of themselves" and are without self control........having been there and now understand what its like NOT to be able to be alone with myself without this temptation always looming over me like a dark shadow, step 1 if you want to really get set free, you need true repentance, you must understand what the bible teaches, and believe the bible is true. imagine a good and Godly man who is in bondage to having a sexual affair with another woman, every week this man is in church, singing giving money, everything about him say's he's a Christian, yet every weekend he sneaks away and has sex with someone outside his marriage, he does this until he is accidently killed in a car accident......now what does the bible say about worldly repentance, the kind that doesn't bring change or life. will this man according to God's own words be found as a adulterer, thus unable to enter the kingdom of heaven

 

[brinny]

Be A Man

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" ~2 Corinthians !0:5

‪Be a Man... Biblically. [PM Service] (Paul Washer)‬‏ - YouTube

 

[stiller]

These Paul Washer videos are really annoying.I doubt that too many are going to listen to this guy rant for an hour about how holy you have to be to get saved.

youtube.com/watch?v=9l45gvEopuA

 

[brinny]

These Paul Washer videos are really annoying.I doubt that too many are going to listen to this guy rant for an hour about how holy you have to be to get saved.

Did you listen? Please put aside your initial annoyance and give him a listen, brother in Christ, and beloved son of the Most High God.

 

[joyusdays]

can you pretend like we are back in the day where you have to speak with your own words?

 

[Johnnz]

His theology is terrible, what Paul would call "another gospel"

John
NZ

 

[TheDag]

Brinny I don't think anyone disagrees with what you put in post #290. However it did not counter what Johnnz said. The fact is that the church has a very unhealthy obsession against sex. Sure the bible is supportive of it however the church in general has not taught that and that is reflected in the views of many.

You have once again repeated the line about whatever you put before God is sin. I realise that. i learnt that even christian music can be wrong if it is more important than God. However what you have not done is shown how people are putting that before God. If anything you are making the assumption they are.

If you care to answer that with your words then I will read them. I will not watch anymore clips you post after the two I have seen already. I outlined earlier how the argument in one of them was so full of errors and holes that I just am not prepared to spend hours watching more. if I watched every clip you have posted in this thread it would take an entire day. You need to be realistic about what your asking people to do when you post those videos.

 

[Blueforest]

If having a sex drive is evil, then so is eating, sleeping and drinking liquids. Have fun in hell, everyone.

 

[OGM]

If having a sex drive is evil, then so is eating, sleeping and drinking liquids. Have fun in hell, everyone.

Well......if having a sex drive is evil then about 99.995% of humanity is doomed

 

[Blueforest]

Well......if having a sex drive is evil then about 99.995% of humanity is doomed

I would assume that is why we need a saviour.