Masons

[Albion]

I did find something outrageously ridiculous in it:

A hundred thousand pages of masonic literature with no conclusion!

Hmmm. I'm sure that more pages than that have been written about the meaning of the Bible's contents, and yet there are 30,000 different denominations with thousands of different conclusions reached about the Gospels.

Therefore, the notion that Masonry--which evolved from unknown origins and has no standard definition for many of its symbols or rituals--can't exist without a single, definitive answer for everything is what's really ridiculous.

 

[timewerx]

You have no idea how much reading this hurts me. I took you to be a sincere person, and I said as much near the end of the recently deleted thread.

I acknowledge that, sadly, it was gone before I could make a reply. I was supposed to thank you for your encouragement. So now, I thank you

Please bear with me to explain to you the context of lying in scriptures.

How does your quoted statement above mesh with 1 John 2:21-22,

Here is the verse:
I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.

Not every lie makes you a liar. Verse 22 is very specific about it. Same context holds for all other verses you mentioned.

Not all lies pollute/corrupt the Truth/God's Word (Verse 21):

- Lying to save another life/help someone in distress
- Lying to immigration to preach the Gospel to locals - many countries ban Christian missionaries and won't allow you in if you state your true intentions.
- Infiltrate churches that preach false teachings by pretending in order to win people to the true Gospel.

Even Jesus himself lied to His brothers to protect their reputation (so they won't be hated by the world) for apparently, the brothers of Jesus will serve an important role later on in the early Christian church. (John 7:6-13)

If Jesus went with His brothers, the Jews may have conspired against His brothers too and may have negatively impacted the early Church.

As for lies that corrupt/deny Jesus/God's Word:

- You only become a liar if you corrupt the Truth itself like for instance, you preach that it's okay to be a friend of this world as opposed to James 4:4. You preach that it's easier to enter Heaven as a wealthy man or woman than poor opposing Matthew 19:24. The list is very long for false teachings being preached in many churches today.
- Lying to serve personal agendas - advance in career/get a promotion at work, to grab an opportunity for worldly success, achieve favorable position in worldly dealings, achieve higher profit in business. In this case, it shows your attachment to worldly things which Jesus preaches against.

It amazes me that the things Masonry is falsely accused of are admitted as the game plan of those who accuse.

There's a distinction between the "lies" of O.F.F and Masonry:

O.F.F's game plan is to take advantage of his membership in masonry to get people out of the organization. He uses the membership as proof, he was inside the org for some time.

Yet, he also lies not being a member, well, there's actually a grain of truth in it... While he is a member on paper, many of his views opposes Masonry. I wouldn't call that "member" rather a spy or traitor or even an enemy.

Masonry on the other hand, wants others to believe they are not a religion, yet, the have every marks and rituals of a religion.

If only Masonry teaches the Truth, nothing more, nothing less then I would have no issues with that lie. In fact, they would actually be beneficial to God's Will. And through that lie, attract even unbelievers to knowing the Truth.

Unfortunately, they seem to have few things that make up a false religion. I wouldn't know more beyond those few. But those few is enough to warn me away from Freemasonry.

 

[Erth]

Absolutely untrue.

Thank you, I appreciate it. So I guess it was an anomaly then.

 

[O.F.F.]

A mason website would surely be biased against O.F.F.

Thanks for noticing what members of the religion of Freemasonry fail to acknowledge.

 

[Albion]

Thank you, I appreciate it. So I guess it was an anomaly then.

I don't think it could even be that--an anomaly. I've puzzled over this matter since I read your post, wondering how what he said could make sense. There is no way it could literally be correct, so although I can speculate all over the place, the best I can come up with is that there might have been some terrible misunderstanding, perhaps because of some third party passing along to him his own theory or hearsay.

 

[O.F.F.]

Yet, he also lies not being a member, well, there's actually a grain of truth in it... While he is a member on paper, many of his views opposes Masonry. I wouldn't call that "member" rather a spy or traitor or even an enemy.

TW, so you have no more doubt, let me make it perfectly clear. When I submitted my letter of resignation to my former lodge, as far as God and I'm are concerned, I am NO LONGER a member of the Masonic Order.

From my past experience as a lodge secretary, whenever a member is dropped for non-payment of dues, or whenever we received a demit from a member in order for them to join another lodge, or a letter of resignation from someone who no longer wants to be a Mason, Freemasonry does not remove the record of their membership, but simply updates the record to reflect their current status.

But regardless of whether that remains the practice today or not, I assure you I DO NOT consider myself a member, and I no longer practice the religion of Freemasonry, period!

 

[Albion]

Lying to serve personal agendas - advance in career/get a promotion at work, to grab an opportunity for worldly success, achieve favorable position in worldly dealings, achieve higher profit in business. In this case, it shows your attachment to worldly things which Jesus preaches against.

There's a distinction between the "lies" of O.F.F and Masonry:

O.F.F's game plan is to take advantage of his membership in masonry to get people out of the organization. He uses the membership as proof, he was inside the org for some time.

Yet, he also lies not being a member, well, there's actually a grain of truth in it... While he is a member on paper, many of his views opposes Masonry. I wouldn't call that "member" rather a spy or traitor or even an enemy.

I'm not sure what you are explaining there. Is it that by remaining a member but claiming not to be a member gives him an advantage in building his own fame as a Mason-fighter?

 

[O.F.F.]

Is it that by remaining a member but claiming not to be a member gives him an advantage in building his own fame as a Mason-fighter?

Dude, did you NOT read my last post? You've been on here long enough, and have seen enough of my posts, to know that I AM NO LONGER A MASON!

Furthermore, I may rigorously debate with Masons about the heretical teachings of Freemasonry, but I AM ALSO NOT A MASON-FIGHTER!

In fact, the primary Mason whom one might glean I was 'fighting' from the history of my posts is actually now a good friend of mine. He and I talk on Facebook and 'live' by phone quite regularly.

As professing Christians, we both agreed that our former behavior toward one another did not give God glory at all; no matter how much either of us thought our respective positions did. So we decided to cease and desist while agreeing to disagree about Freemasonry without being disagreeable.

 

[americanvet]

Dude, did you NOT read my last post? You've been on here long enough, and have seen enough of my posts, to know that I AM NO LONGER A MASON!

Furthermore, I may rigorously debate with Masons about the heretical teachings of Freemasonry, but I AM ALSO NOT A MASON-FIGHTER!

In fact, the primary Mason whom one might glean I was 'fighting' from the history of my posts is actually now a good friend of mine. He and I talk on Facebook and 'live' by phone quite regularly.

As professing Christians, we both agreed that our former behavior toward one another did not give God glory at all; no matter how much either of us thought our respective positions did. So we decided to cease and desist while agreeing to disagree about Freemasonry without being disagreeable.

This last paragraph I like!

 

[Albion]

Dude, did you NOT read my last post? You've been on here long enough, and have seen enough of my posts, to know that I AM NO LONGER A MASON!

I wasn't addressing you, O.F.F.

 

[vocalyocal]

I realize that there are many misrepresentations about Masons. And certainly they not are perfect. But why is there such a campaign against them. I have not know many personally who are Masons, but they seem very much like anyone else. Many of the U.S. leaders have been members of the Masons and it was at one time very prestigous to be a member of the Masons. Why the turn around

we discovered who their god is and what their agenda is

 

[timewerx]

Furthermore, I may rigorously debate with Masons about the heretical teachings of Freemasonry, but I AM ALSO NOT A MASON-FIGHTER!

Agree, if you mean not to fight the members of masonry. But to oppose their false teachings, we should.

It's a wonder especially from Christians not to take heed from things that could endanger one's soul.

But then again, many Christians have kept Harry Potter literature in their homes, rock music which had deep pagan/occult connection, adornments with pagan/occult symbols, art with idolatrous implications, and playing video games riddled with paganism/occult...

Disturbingly, I see the same pattern if I rebuke others on these things. They try to assault the character of the messenger, not taking heed of the more important thing - the message itself.

 

[O.F.F.]

I wasn't addressing you, O.F.F.

You were 'referencing' ME in your reply to TW. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, YOU were 'addressing' me in your post. So I WILL respond whenever you mischaracterize my position in ANY of YOUR posts.

 

[Albion]

You were 'referencing' ME in your reply to TW. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, YOU were 'addressing' me in your post.

I think you'd do well to get a grip and calm down. You certainly have every right to comment, just as the rest of us do.

 

[O.F.F.]

You certainly have every right to comment, just as the rest of us do.

Absolutely! As I commented, I WILL respond whenever you mischaracterize my position in ANY of YOUR posts.

 

[Albion]

Absolutely! As I commented, I WILL respond whenever you mischaracterize my position in ANY of YOUR posts.

You've already said that...and I didn't mischaracterize anything.

I asked another person about HIS understanding of these matters. That's when you tried to preempt his answer.

 

[timewerx]

I'm not sure what you are explaining there. Is it that by remaining a member but claiming not to be a member gives him an advantage in building his own fame as a Mason-fighter?

I asked another person about HIS understanding of these matters. That's when you tried to preempt his answer.

When I read O.F.F's explanation on his membership, I trusted it to be Truth...

Sorry, but I am severely biased against anyone who assails the character, rather than the matter being discussed.

Let's not kill messengers please? As masonicinfo.com seems to be fond of doing.

If a desperately hopeless serial killer perfectly recited John 3:16, does it change the meaning? NO! If anyone cannot reason by the scriptures but instead resort to character assault, it shows one's lack of understanding of scriptures but love for the ways of the world...

Isn't that what lawyers do too?? Isn't that what any worldly institutions love to do to win their case? How they can win a case and imprison innocents due to character assaults?

 

[Albion]

When I read O.F.F's explanation on his membership, I trusted it to be Truth...

about what????? Would you please answer my question.

Sorry, but I am severely biased against anyone who assails the character, rather than the matter being discussed.

Would that account for all the terrible things you've said about Masons on these threads? Explain the logic there, please.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Freemasonry's teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry's religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge's prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism. The Lodge's practice of requiring its members to swear immoral oaths is also incompatible with Christianity. These oaths require a Christian to swear on the Holy Bible that he will uphold a code of moral conduct that prefers Masons over non-Masons, and to preserve secret passwords and handshakes. Such oaths are gravely immoral because their subject matter is trivial or does not give rise to the necessity of an oath. These oaths are also sworn under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of physical torture and death called self-curses (e.g., having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out by its roots). These penalties show a lack of respect for God and amount to blasphemy which is a serious sin.

 

[Albion]

Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism.

That's the RC line, but it's not accurate.

Now, go ahead with your explanation of indifferentism, even though it's not applicable.

Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Freemasonry's teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole.

Nope. That's not the case, either.

This is evidenced most especially by Masonry's religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar.

That doesn't happen. BTW, how many Masonic rituals have you witnessed?

This is also demonstrated by the Lodge's prayers

Give us an example.

The Lodge's practice of requiring its members to swear immoral oaths is also incompatible with Christianity. These oaths require a Christian to swear on the Holy Bible that he will uphold a code of moral conduct that prefers Masons over non-Masons,

No, there is no such promise made.

and to preserve secret passwords and handshakes

Yes, that's true. And wow. Imagine not revealing a password or handshake. What immorality! What shockingly shamefui behavior that is!

These oaths are also sworn under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of physical torture and death called self-curses (e.g. having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out by its roots).

There isn't a one of these SYMBOLIC gestures that can compete with what the RCC actually has done to innocent people merely for being suspected of heresy.

By the way, Jack, I'd like to know more about the secret and bloody oaths and the passwords and handshakes used by the Knights of Columbus are. Can you reveal them?