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DaBronx

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Hey guys,
Not sure where this goes but I like to come in here and read a lot so I posted it here (PLEASE send me a private message is it has been moved!!) ...

OK.. here goes my question:

What is the deal with The Masons? Who are they? Are they considered Christians? Is this a Cult? Can you "get out" of this fraternity?

Thanks! :)
 

IgnatiusOfAntioch

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DaBronx said:
Hey guys,
Not sure where this goes but I like to come in here and read a lot so I posted it here (PLEASE send me a private message is it has been moved!!) ...

OK.. here goes my question:

What is the deal with The Masons? Who are they? Are they considered Christians? Is this a Cult? Can you "get out" of this fraternity?

Thanks! :)

I dont think this has anything whatsoever to do with Church History.
 
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Archimboldo

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Actually, it does have to do with church history. Many of the cathedrals in the 13th and 14th century were built by a group called, appropriately enough, Masons.

I don't think present day Masons are much more than some kind of social/fraternal group, but their roots do go back to more serious stuff.

They trace their lineage back to the first "church" builder, Hiram Abiff, who assisted Solomon in building his temple.

IIRC, there was a kind of esoteric branch and a branch called the Freemasons, who were started by a Hermetic philosopher named Robert Fludd. (Masons are free to correct me).

As I say, though, today they are not of much religious significance and have pretty much lost their roots.
 
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Jipsah

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DaBronx said:
What is the deal with The Masons?
They're a fraternal organization.

Who are they?
Just a bunch of dudes (no women).

Are they considered Christians?
Some is, some ain't. You have to profess a belief in the Great Architect of the Universe to belong, but they'll take Jews or Muslims or whatever as handily as they do Christians.

Is this a Cult?
Not really.

Can you "get out" of this fraternity?
If you stop paying your dues then you won't be considered "in good standing". But once you've been through the rituals, you're a Mason whether you're in good standing and go to meetings or not. I'm sure they have some kind of chucking out ceremony if someone turns on 'em, but I've never heard of it happening.
 
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DaBronx

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BalaamsAss51

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IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
I dont think this has anything whatsoever to do with Church History.

History is history. What happened 4,000 years ago or what happened 1 second ago is history. Is there some limit to the range of time that may be addressed on this forum??? Re masons particularly, they have had a great impact on Americain history both in the realm of state and church activity and interactions. Many Christian groups have been dominated by Masons and many groups have actively taught against Masonic teachings.

Pax
 
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hyburn

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Archimboldo said:
Actually, it does have to do with church history. Many of the cathedrals in the 13th and 14th century were built by a group called, appropriately enough, Masons.

I don't think present day Masons are much more than some kind of social/fraternal group, but their roots do go back to more serious stuff.

They trace their lineage back to the first "church" builder, Hiram Abiff, who assisted Solomon in building his temple.

IIRC, there was a kind of esoteric branch and a branch called the Freemasons, who were started by a Hermetic philosopher named Robert Fludd. (Masons are free to correct me).

As I say, though, today they are not of much religious significance and have pretty much lost their roots.
as I understand it....this "cult" believes that Jesus was not of virgin birth, that he was basically just another guy. and that he had children. so there was a sect created to guard this child, now heres where it gets tricky, some where there is an army created called the knights templar they are fighting some war. well you've seen national treasure.......after running from saul they change their name to masons and fly under a flag bearing a skull and cross bones.... hence pirates. I bet all this is wrong, but hey it sounds cool eh? lol
 
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constance

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To jump on the bandwagon:

While the Masons don't allow women they do have a women's group called "Order of the Eastern Star" or something like that...

My family (migrating from the burned-out area of upstate New York) loathes and distrusts masons. As in, you can't be a good Christian if you are one.

There's a nice man at my church (I live in Chicago) who is, so I would assume my family is mistaken, but I am sure there are others out there who feel the same way.

Constance
 
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Ethan_Fetch

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With all due respect, Masons, like anybody else can be very fine people indeed, very kind and generous and so on.

So can Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and Wiccans and whoever else.

I, on the other hand, by the Grace of God a Christian, can be ornery, short tempered and caustic.

:blush:

The problem seems to be that your average Mason has no idea of the religious underpinnings of the group he belongs to.

It is basically a product of the 18th century enlightenment. It's just deism wrapped up in ritualistic mumbo-jumbo.

They borrow a lot of esoteric language to mystify their procedings, but, very basically, it's just the universal Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man, let's all join hands and use science and reason and charity to solve all the world's problems since God is not really involved in the day to day operation of the planet but has charged us with doing everything.

The God of Scripture, of course is much different. The message of the Bible about sin, the fall, the exclusivity of Christ's atoning work, His return to establish His earthly reign, etc. are all, ultimately antithetical to the Masonic view.

But, as I said, the average Mason has no idea of any of this and has joined the lodge for some other reason.

So, I guess, if anyone is interested in my opinion, it's this:

If you know what Masonry really is, you cannot be a Mason and a Christian at the same time.

If you don't know what it is, you shouldn't be a Mason but any sin you might be guilty of by joining yourself to it is probably mitigated by ignorance, so you'd do well to get out of it, but don't beat yourself up over it.
 
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Dmckay

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The Mason had their roots in a special branch of the Roman Catholic Church during the Crusades known as the Knights Templar. The group has devolved since then to a non-Christian/Christian Cult depending on who you use as a source.

Much of the information that was used in the movie National Treasure with Nicholas Cage has been documented by many different groups. There are even those who believe thatJack the ripper was never caught because it was tied to a well known and powerful Mason in England at the time.

This is NOT a harmless fraternal order that any Christian whould even consider being involved with.
 
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Dmckay

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The following has been taken from the American Masonic Review, Winter 1993; College Station, TX with the permission of Pierre (Pete) G. Normand, Jr., editor.

OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE FUTURE by Gary Leazer, Ph.D. (Former Director of the Interfaith Witness Department of the Home Mission Board, Southern Baptist Convention)

A year ago I knew little about a fraternity known as Freemasonry. Then I was given an assignment which I neither asked for nor wanted, but one which, when given, I was determined to complete as fairly and objectively as was humanly possible. I knew the assignment was a no-win assignment from the very beginning because there were and still are very powerful voices with my denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention, calling for the complete condemnation of Freemasonry.

That became clear from the beginning when a letter I wrote in August 1992 to Craig Branch, director of the Birmingham, Alabama, office of Watchman Fellowship, an anti-cult ministry, was forwarded to James Larry Holly, Branch, a member of the Presbyterian Church of America, recently co-authored a book with John Ankerberg. Holly, the Beaumont, Texas, physician who has been instrumental in the attempts to have the SBC condemn Freemasonry on two occasions, immediately called for my replacement claiming that I was too prejudiced towards those opposed to Freemasonry. Lewis declined at that time to replace me stating that the messengers to the SBC annual meeting in Indianapolis in June 1992 directed the Interfaith Witness Department to do the study. My impression of Holly's actions then was his realization, after reading the contents of my letter to Branch, that he would have no influence in the direction of my research. Holly has been quoted as being very disappointed that an ad hoc committee was not appointed by the messengers at the June 1992 Convention and to which he could be appointed.

Another letter, which no doubt you have all heard about if you have not read it, was the catalyst for my removal from the Freemasonry study and eventually my move to a field staff position. This letter was written to a Southern Baptist Mason in January 1993 after I had completed my study but before I had submitted it to Larry Lewis. I summarized my conclusions and recommendations in the letter. Somehow, this letter also ended up in Holly's possession. I received a phone call at 12:45 a.m. while was at a meeting in Lexington, Kentucky, from Darrell Robinson, vice-president for the Home Mission Board evangelism section and my immediate supervisor, informing me that I was being removed from further work on the assignment. Later, Holly claimed to have learned of another letter I had written to a Mason and was trying to get a copy. As a result of that claim, two Home Mission Board staff came to my home and removed two boxes of letters and research notes form my home office. In those boxes, they found three other letters which they said cast doubt on my objectivity. As a result of this, I was given the opportunity to request a demotion and transfer to field staff position rather than risk an attempt by the HMB trustees to fire me. I requested a field staff position.

I was criticized for allowing two Masons to read advance copies of the study. This was unusual, but not unique, given the controversial nature of the assignment. I have asked for critiques of my research from groups I was writing about on at least two other occasions, one an article on the visit of the Pope to this country several years ago and another on an article about the Latter-Day Saints Church. John Ankerberg, Ed Decker and other anti-Masons would have more accurate books if they would talk with people they are writing about, rather than depending on their own vivid imaginations. While I was criticized for allowing two Masons to read the advance copy, no one criticized me for allowing three non-Masons to read it.

The study which I submitted to Lewis in January was subsequently revised so much - twenty-five percent of the text was removed - and a more negative spin was given to the text, that I requested that my name not be attached to the study. In spite of these changes I still believe the study is the most accurate and fair of any done by a non-Mason. The Home Mission Board's 6 page report adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention was written after I was removed from the process and I had absolutely nothing to do with its content. An Associate, Bill Gordon, who was Paige Patterson's grader while a student at Criswell Bible College in Dallas, was asked for input. The curriculum at Criswell Bible College includes a study of Freemasonry in its course of religious cults. Patterson, formerly president of Criswell Bible College is now the president of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in North Carolina, is generally regarded as one of the two primary architects of the conservative resurgence in the Convention and is a well-known anti-Mason.

ONLY THE BEGINNING:

I know many of you feel relief that the Southern Baptist Convention did not condemn Freemasonry, but you should not be satisfied with the report adopted by the Convention. You cannot agree with the eight points critical of Freemasonry which are found in the report. I hope you will respond clearly and quickly to each of these points. Literally thousands of Southern Baptists and others have read these points and believe them to be an accurate summary of Masonic teachings. You simply cannot afford to ignore this report. An article in the August issue of the Scottish Rite Journal quoted J. Walter Carpenter, a trustee of the Home Mission Board and editor of the Southern Baptist Watchman, an independent newspaper, who cautioned that Masons must be aware of the criticism of the Home Mission Board report, giving them close attention and action, if Freemasonry is to avoid attacks from religious groups, including the Southern Baptists, in the future. My study does not agree with the conclusions in the Home Mission Board report, but the report, not my study, is the official position of the Southern Baptist Convention.

I found that the criticisms of Freemasonry in the Home Mission Board report are widely believed by Southern Baptist, primarily because of the continued widespread availability of anti-Masonic books in Baptist book stores and other Christian book stores across the nation. For example, the Baptist book store at our denominational assembly at Ridgecrest, North Carolina is carry an anti-Masonic book by John Ankerberg, but not the study I wrote. For years, the books have been believed to accurately reflect Masonic teachings, partly because anything written in a book is believed true by many, and secondly, and more importantly, Masons have been silent. Silence has been interpreted to mean agreement.

Anti-Masons will use the first part of the summary adopted in Houston, "In light of the fact that many tenets and teaching of Freemasonry are not compatible with Christianity and Southern Baptist Doctrine," to their advantage. Surely you can not be pleased with that statement. It does not reflect my conclusions and I feel certain it does not reflect yours.

They will also refer to a non-binding resolution adopted by messengers at the 1992 Southern Baptist Convention "On Christian Witness and Voluntary Associations." Resolutions represent the opinions of the messengers present and voting, but in recent years resolutions have been used as if they are binding on SBC agencies, institutions, churches and employees of SBC agencies and institutions. The resolution urges "all Southern Baptists to refrain from participation or membership in organizations with teachings, oaths, or mystical knowledge which are contrary to the Bible and to the public expression of our faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ." Although the resolution does not mention Freemasonry, many observers believe it was directed at Freemasonry.

The anti-Masonic movement lost a major battle to secure an outright condemnation of Freemasonry in Houston in June, but it has not given up the fight. Anti-Masons do not consider the war lost; no treaty has been signed. I believe this issue will surface again in three to five years. The Home Mission Board hopes this issue will never come up again as there is no doubt it has hurt income to some degree. The Board hopes the issue will die a quick death. I have been told I will have no input in any future restudy of Freemasonry. Some anti-Masons want to bring it up at the SBC next year. You must begin preparing now for that eventuality. Remember that this issue came up in 1985 and then again in 1991. I appreciate the call in this month's issue of The Scottish Rite Journal for a "renewed effort on the part of all Freemasons today to re-energize our Fraternity." The ball is in your court: you have the momentum if you will take advantage of it.

There are a number of positive steps you can take immediately. I would recommend that you lay everything on the table. Nothing, no ritual, no teaching, no practice, should be off limits. Look at literally everything. Your very survival as a fraternity depends upon it.
 
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Dmckay

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Continuation:
EDUCATION IS THE KEY:

An editorial entitled "Freemasonry and Religion Often Misunderstood by Masons and non-Masons" in the November-December 1992 issue of the Washington Masonic Tribune stated that Masons must "be better informed about ways in which we can answer the questions and comments made to us by uninformed citizens. You can no longer afford to be passive and not respond to accusations that are false. Masonic membership is a true privilege and there are so many positive elements of Freemasonry to be proud of that we must be willing to speak out and inform our friends and neighbors." I would recommend that each issue of your grand lodge periodicals include an article discussing a specific Masonic teaching. Anti-Masons have raised a number of questions about Freemasonry. Whether these anti-Masons are correct or not - and my research suggests they are not - Masons must respond.

Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." As abhorrent as it may sound, it is my opinion that if Masons don't take advantage of this opportunity, Freemasonry will be a subject your great-grandchildren will only read about in obscure history books. I am not exaggerating when I say you have a herculean task ahead of you. Booklets explaining Freemasonry, such as the excellent "Conscience and the Craft" by Jim Tresner, would be helpful to give pastors and other church leaders. In my opinion, Jim Tresner, is the most knowledgeable and articulate Masonic writer today. Education is one of the keys in responding to charges leveled by the anti-Masons. This education can never end. It is the life blood of Freemasonry.

I would caution you about accepting invitations to debate anti-Masons. If they video-tape the debate, they can edit it. Years ago, the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell, called for debates with the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church and many Protestant church leaders. When they didn't or wouldn't, he said they were afraid. In one sense, it may seem like a defeat in itself, but little or no good can come of debating these individuals and much negative can. Small insignificant individuals and groups will boast of debating the whole fraternity rather than just individual Masons. Video clips can change what the speaker said. I found myself asking, "Did I really say that?" during my research when Holly and others twisted my words to suit their desire.

THE ANTI-MASONIC MINDSET:

You must attempt to understand the mindset of the anti-Mason. They tend to see everything as black and white, or us and them. For example, I saw this with anti-Mason's insistence that the opinion of one Mason had to be the opinion of all Masons. This argument was directed at a number of books by Masons. I understand the Masonic position that each writer speaks only for himself, but I think you are sometimes your own worst enemy when you recommend certain books to your readers. I support the right of every Mason to write any book he wishes, but I question the wisdom of these books being recommended to fellow Masons. Every Mason has a right to write books, but not all books are profitable to read. I saw it in the charge that Masonic "light" refers to salvation since Jesus Christ is spoken of as "the Light" in the New Testament. One anti-Mason express surprise when I told him the word refers to understanding or knowledge rather than salvation. Toleration of diverse beliefs, a Masonic virtue, is rejected by anti-Masons and fundamentalist Christians as simple and unacceptable compromise with false or pagan beliefs.

Masons will never be able to satisfy every anti-Mason. Some depend on the sale of their books, videos and speaking invitations for their livelihood. Others strongly disagree with the Masonic mission which "transcends all religious , ethnic, cultural, social and educational differences." Many anti-Masons, who are usually fundamentalists, define "being right" very narrowly and find it impossible to accept even persons within their own denominations who don't measure up to their narrow definitions. Some are unacceptable simply because they don't vote for the right candidate or issue, whether secular or religious. In my study, I referred to the 1921 decision by the Supreme Court of Nebraska that Freemasonry was not a religion. Ankerberg responded by arguing that courts are often wrong. The thought that he might be wrong probably never crossed Ankerberg's mind. That is the mindset common to anti-Masons. I want to add here that not all fundamentalists are anti-Masonic. A number of Masons and your supporters would hold that religious persuasion. Perhaps, it would be more appropriate to speak of an aberrant form of fundamentalist, what psychologists call "toxic faith." PREMILLENIALIST CONSPIRACISTS:


There is another issue rapidly approaching which will most likely adversely affect Freemasonry. That issue is the conspiracy theories revolving around the new millennium. One of the most popular conspiracists today is Texe Marrs. He is the author of over 25 books, including Dark Majesty: The Secret Brotherhood and the Magic of A Thousand Point of Light. Marrs claims there is a worldwide conspiracy of well-known men whose goal "is to accumulate most all of this planet's wealth and power under their wings. They intend to become our masters, our benefactors, and our gods." With the Illuminati in this alleged conspiracy are Freemasonry, the United Nations, CIA, FBI, KGB, the World Council of Churches, the Vatican, the World Bank, multinational corporations, and "some TV evangelists." Among the politicians involved in this conspiracy are Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Bill Clinton, Dan Quayle, Henry Kissinger, General Colin Powell, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, "and just about every other major political figure and social leader in America." In spite of the absurdity of Marrs' theory, his books are sold in reputable Christian book stores and purchased by thousands of naive readers.

Gary H. Kah, A. Ralph Epperson, William T. Still and Pat Robertson are other well-known conspiracists who see Freemasonry as part of a world-wide conspiracy. A section on these conspiracy theories was removed from my study after it was submitted to the Home Mission Board president.
These conspiracy theories, which are rooted in premillennialism, which holds that the Anti-Christ will arise to rule the entire world before Jesus Christ returns to usher in the millennium. According to conservative biblical theology, human history will end after 6,000 years. Those 6,000 years are believed to conclude at the end of this decade. I see the Church as an ally in helping people understand the biblical teaching about eschatalogy. Herschel H. Hobbs, one of the few statesmen in the Southern Baptist Convention, summarized this issue by saying, "Amazingly, many otherwise sensible people are led astray, or else disturbed, in their faith by such (false teachers). By the time they get through, people who listen to them are so mixed up they do not know who to believe." A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY:

During my research I received over 2,000 letters, over ninety-five percent of them were from Masons or Eastern Star ladies. Almost without exception the writers of those letters as well as individual Masons I talked with were the finest men and women anyone could want to know. I wish I could say the same thing about the other four or five percent of the letters which were from anti-Masons. I wrote it out of no malice toward Freemasonry, but with a genuine desire that the controversy surrounding your fraternity can be stopped once and for all. I sincerely believe that it is possible if you take advantage of this window of opportunity. If you do, the future will indeed be bright for Freemasonry.
(Condensed from the Keynote Address to the Southeast Masonic Conference, 6 August 1993, Atlanta, Georgia.)

Gary Leazer Center for Interfaith Studies P.O Box 870523 Stone Mountain, GA 30087-0014 Post Script. Dr Gary Leazer, author of the original eighty-page "Study of Freemasonry," as ordered by the Southern Baptist Convention's Home Mission Board, submitted a forced resignation on October 22, 1993, following the publication of an address he made on August 6 to the Southeast Masonic Conference meeting in Atlanta.

Dr. Larry Lewis, President of the HMB, told the Baptist Press he requested Leazer's resignation for what he called "gross insubordination" stemming from the August address. A transcript of the address, which was published in the October Georgia Masonic Messenger, appears as the cover article in this issue of American Masonic Review.

In his speech, Leazer was critical of the six-page report as it was presented to the SBC in June. "My study does not agree with the conclusions in the HMB report," he said. Leazer revealed that his original study was drastically altered by administrators of the HMB in order to make it more negative toward the fraternity than his research had warranted.

In the summer of 1992, when the Southern Baptist Convention approved a resolution directing the Home Mission Board to conduct a study of Freemasonry, Dr. Leazer, as director of the Interfaith Witness Department, was given the task of conducting that study. However, when the eighty-page study was finished, it re-affirmed the HMB's 1986 position that Freemasonry is not a religion and recommended that the SBC take no stand for or against the fraternity. Furthermore, Leazer's study was critical of the writing of leading anti-Masons such as Dr. James L. Holly, and televangelist John Ankerberg. In the Fall of 1992, Holly withdrew his support for the study.

Following the completion of the study, Dr. Larry Lewis, head of the H.M.B., sent two staff members to Leazer's home to remove and examine all of Leazer's correspondence. Among this correspondence, the staff members found several letters from Baptist Masons. Lewis subsequently removed Leazer as director of the Interfaith Witness Department and assigned him to a field position. According to Leazer, "their concern was that I had encouraged several Masons to go to the Southern Baptist Convention andvote their conscience."

The Home Mission Board then began editing Leazer's study, removing critical references to the work of Holly and Ankerberg. Leazer felt that the study and its findings had been so fundamentally altered that he asked that his name "not be attached to the study."

Leazer is planning to write a book about his experiences while conducting the study over the past two years.
 
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Ave Maria

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I don't know much about Freemasons but I do know that the Catholic Church is strongly opposed to them. From what I have read about them, I don't see any conflict between someone being a Freemason and a Christian in good standing.
 
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