Mary

[Saint Beloved]

I take it you also have to discount a lot of opinion in commentaries as not backed up by the verse? Or is that because I use google as a way to check commentaries and we get lists of different takes on a given verse. I believe the Holy Spirit is the best tool as to how to interpret and a grasp of what is said in many other related verses. ?

Yes I take human's word even on the Bible with salt because it is human. The Bible was authored by God so I can take that how it is revealed to me by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Saint Beloved]

Why don't you ask Sam91 that?

Because it was a rhetorical statement I was pointing out that all our opinions of each others faith is worthless and merely puffing up it's not always truth we can't rely on our opinions we can only rely on God and His Word.

 

[Sam91]

Because it was a rhetorical statement I was pointing out that all our opinions of each others faith is worthless and merely puffing up it's not always truth we can't rely on our opinions we can only rely on God and His Word.

'Wisdom from above' that is, and probably prevented me from unintentionally sinning. Thank you indeed

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

False.

False.

Only God is God.

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen." (Romans 1:25).

 

[FenderTL5]

I dont get why Mary is prayed to..

I didn't read the whole thread, it comes up often enough that I have a general idea where the discussion centers.
Responding to the OP; I don't understand the misunderstanding.
Either you believe in 'life after death' aka eternal life or not.
That's the crux of the confusion.

 

[Saint Beloved]

I didn't read the whole thread, it comes up often enough that I have a general idea where the discussion centers.
Responding to the OP; I don't understand the misunderstanding.
Either you believe in 'life after death' aka eternal life or not.
That's the crux of the confusion.

We all believe in life after death what we differ on is the catholic tradition seems to teach that it is ok to talk to through prayer to those who've died and are now spirits with God believing they have some influence wheras protestants teach that when you die although your spirit lives it has no influence or power until it's reunited with a body in the resurrection. So to us praying to anyone other than God seems unScriptural, man made and blasphemous and as we share a foundational faith in Christ we don't understand how with the same instructions from God we have such different approaches.

Jesus didn't tell anyone to pray to Abraham or to Eve so why pray to Mary?

 

[frettr00]

Really? Do you pray to fellow Catholics? Do you pray to your brothers and sisters? Do you pray to your Churches bishop? Nope. Why not?

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to make it any clearer to you. I already explained what praying to saints involves. I'm not lying to you. If you really want to understand where Catholics are coming from then at least be willing to accept our explanations.

 

[Saint Beloved]

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to make it any clearer to you. I already explained what praying to saints involves. I'm not lying to you. If you really want to understand where Catholics are coming from then at least be willing to accept our explanations.

It's the 'to' business that makes me uncomfortable. Praying for people I can get behind but praying to them to ask what I can go to God and directly ask him for seems bizarre.

And we're told to test everything by Scripture so before I take up a new obedience I need to be sure I'm not being attacked subtly by the evil one.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to make it any clearer to you. I already explained what praying to saints involves. I'm not lying to you. If you really want to understand where Catholics are coming from then at least be willing to accept our explanations.

One explanation: GOD is GOD.

No worshipping of creatures.

 

[frettr00]

It's the 'to' business that makes me uncomfortable. Praying for people I can get behind but praying to them to ask what I can go to God and directly ask him for seems bizarre.

Ok I see where you're coming from. Earlier I mentioned that when we pray to saints what we are really doing is asking them to pray for us. We're essentially just communicating with them and not sending our prayers to them as if they are powers unto themselves in substitution of God. As an example I pray the rosary and I'll pray it for specific intentions. Let's say I pray it for the intention of getting a new job. What I'm doing is asking Mary to pray to God that I get a new job. If I were to ask a fellow Christian to pray for me that I get a new job, what they're doing is praying to God that I get a new job. The only difference between the two is one is in heaven while the other is still on Earth. That's about the best way I can think of explaining it so I hope that makes it clearer.

 

[Sam91]

Ok I see where you're coming from. Earlier I mentioned that when we pray to saints what we are really doing is asking them to pray for us. We're essentially just communicating with them and not sending our prayers to them as if they are powers unto themselves in substitution of God. As an example I pray the rosary and I'll pray it for specific intentions. Let's say I pray it for the intention of getting a new job. What I'm doing is asking Mary to pray to God that I get a new job. If I were to ask a fellow Christian to pray for me that I get a new job, what they're doing is praying to God that I get a new job. The only difference between the two is one is in heaven while the other is still on Earth. That's about the best way I can think of explaining it so I hope that makes it clearer.

What does the Bible say about praying to / speaking to / talking to the dead?

 

[Saint Beloved]

Ok I see where you're coming from. Earlier I mentioned that when we pray to saints what we are really doing is asking them to pray for us. We're essentially just communicating with them and not sending our prayers to them as if they are powers unto themselves in substitution of God. As an example I pray the rosary and I'll pray it for specific intentions. Let's say I pray it for the intention of getting a new job. What I'm doing is asking Mary to pray to God that I get a new job. If I were to ask a fellow Christian to pray for me that I get a new job, what they're doing is praying to God that I get a new job. The only difference between the two is one is in heaven while the other is still on Earth. That's about the best way I can think of explaining it so I hope that makes it clearer.

Thanks! Jesus knew we needed comfort so He sent His Holy Spirit so why didn't He say and after that you can ask my mother too? In a similar way He let it be known that John would live longer than the others? Or the Holy Spirit is for men and Mary is for women that would've made sense.

 

[frettr00]

What does the Bible say about praying to / speaking to / talking to the dead?

Necromancy is condemned, which is different. Praying to Dead Folks | Catholic Answers

 

[Sam91]

Necromancy is condemned, which is different. Praying to Dead Folks | Catholic Answers

Oh I just read that and was dismayed at the inherent twisting of scripture or drawing ideas out of it I can not see.

 

[Sam91]

Necromancy is condemned, which is different. Praying to Dead Folks | Catholic Answers

The 'Heroes of the faith' chapter of Hebrews is a Hall of fame. An example of how people acted in Faith and the results of it. Hebrews 11​

I don't profess to understand Revelation but the bowls full of the prayers of the saints and the Elders holding them. It does not say that these Elders were holding Prayers given unto anyone but God. Revelation 5:8 Revelation 8:4

The debate about the transfiguration borders on blasphemy if it isn't such. I found that bit hard to read.

 

[PeaceB]

I go by Jesus fulfilling the OT in the NT being the only proof I need that the NT is validated and considered Scripture and profitable for teaching. Jesus is God's word. I can't go outside of that without damning myself. I don't need to find a 'fact' or a 'specific sentence or book title' as a reason to believe.

Scripture most certainly is profitable for teaching. But the question is - how do you know what Scripture is?

You claim not to go outside of Scripture as the source for your beliefs. If that is true, then your belief that the New Testament contains 27 books should be found within the Bible itself. So then, tell me what book of the Bible states that there are 27 books of the New Testament that are the inspired word of God, and tells you what these 27 books are. You cannot, and this proves that the source of your belief is from outside of Scripture.

What is the specific basis for your belief that Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude and Revelation are the inspired word of God, and that 1 Clement and the Didache are not? If you bought a Bible online and 1 Clement was included between Hebrews and James, would you then believe that 1 Clement is the inspired word of God? Why not?

Do you think that the Bible just dropped out of of the sky as a leather-bound volume with a blue ribbon around it that said “The books herein are the inspired word of God?”

Did the Lord appear to you in a dream and tell you that the New Testament has 27 books?

Most likely your parents told you that the New Testament has 27 books. Or your pastor told you. Or a friend who introduced you to the Christian faith told you. Or you were told by the printing company that packaged the 27 books together and printed them for you, before you purchased it at a bookstore or online.

Could it be that a group of men got together 1,650 years ago and told the members of the Church which writings they possessed were the inspired word of God, and which were not? Could it be that you accept this tradition even though you do not realize it, because you have never researched the question of how the canon of the New Testament was formed?

 

[PeaceB]

Oh I just read that and was dismayed at the inherent twisting of scripture or drawing ideas out of it I can not see.

Many people are dismayed by truth. And many people cannot see truth because of their own pride.

 

[DRobert]

You make it sound so innocent, however Mary is not the Holy Spirit, Nor was she sent to intercede for us. Our prayers should always be directed to the Lord our God. Is that not enough? God is supposed to be glorified in all things.

Its not just that however. Its the queen of heaven thing too. If there is such a thing as Heavens queen, then its the Church who is queen, not Mary. Mary again is taken from her rightful place and is replacing the Church as queen. God gets glory for everything. His Church is also His body. Eve was taken from Adam, not adam taken from Eve. So it is with the Church. The great mystery of the Church Paul spoke of. They shall be one flesh. Who? Mary and Christ? No! the Church and Christ.

Show me where the Catholic Church teaches that Mary is the Holy Spirit?

 

[Sam91]

Many people are dismayed by truth. And many people cannot see truth because of their own pride.

I replied again just below with my objections and the bible links quoted in the article. You are free to click and see for yourself if you can see any foundation for the beliefs.

You are free to accuse me of pride brother. In my opinion I have looked and investigated the events quoted and tried to see how these statements could be inferred. I can't.

 

[PeaceB]

I replied again just below with my objections and the bible links quoted in the article. You are free to click and see for yourself if you can see any foundation for the beliefs.

You are free to accuse me of pride brother. In my opinion I have looked and investigated the events quoted and tried to see how these statements could be inferred. I can't.

How many books are in the New Testament, and what are there names?