Mary

[simonthezealot]

what, if your heart is "married to Christ", you don't show respect to your "mother-in-law" ?

John rightly quoted this verse...
Matthew 4:9,10 - Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.

 

[PaladinValer]

You seem to hate the Scriptures, not I, since it is clear in Scripture from whom He was born from.

"7 And she [Mary] gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in bands of cloth, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn." St. Luke 2:7. Brackets are mine to clarify.

So, who hates the Scriptures?

SvP
~P
Therefore S

 

[simonthezealot]

You seem to hate the Scriptures, not I, since it is clear in Scripture from whom He was born from.

"7 And she [Mary] gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in bands of cloth, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn." St. Luke 2:7. Brackets are mine to clarify.

So, who hates the Scriptures?

SvP
~P
Therefore S

Take your quoted verse and explain it in light of John 1:1, don't get me wrong I'll always respect Mary's place in history as God's chosen vessel, most blessed! no doubt! But yeah go ahead and explain your pov in light of John 1:1

 

[PaladinValer]

So you deny the Incarnation?

Incarnations occur at specific points in linear time.

Its that simple.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

OOPS sorry pv I know how you hate having scripture thrown at you, or was that EC? I don't recall...

That was me. God the Son has always existed. What is your point?

 

[Thekla]

John rightly quoted this verse...
Matthew 4:9,10 - Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.

hey, I didn't say worship, LOL

 

[Oblio]

don't get me wrong I'll always respect Mary's place in history as God's chosen vessel,

The problem is, believing that she was a vessel alone is a heresy

 

[simonthezealot]

The problem is, believing that she was a vessel alone is a heresy

I didn't say alone, listen she occupies a unique place in biblical history.
She conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. Then, she bore our Messiah. Among women, she is most blessed and all who claim to be Christian acknowledge her as a chosen vessel of God.
While Christians admit Mary's uniqueness, your Churches have, in their own words, continued clarifying her position and nature via Sacred Tradition. Through the centuries, more and more doctrines concerning her have been revealed, or ADDED!

 

[Oblio]

The question is simon,

Did she give physical birth to God ?

Yes, or No ?

 

[Apollo Celestio]

She gave birth to the word in flesh.

 

[PaladinValer]

Exactly.

Which makes her the Mother of God.

 

[E.C.]

Digging up the logic from the Third Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431:

-Christ is 100% God, 100% Man in the same body.
-Mary brought Christ into the world, in other words, gave birth to Christ.
-Christ is God, thus Mary gave birth to God.
-Final Analysis: Mary is the Theotokos (the God-bearer)

The part where Nestorius messed up, was the first part. Because he did not want to call Mary the Theokos, he concluded that she only brought Christ's humanity into the world and then concluded that Christ was in two separate bodies: God and man. (or something similar to that).

The part that many Protestants leave out from this Council, is that Mary is to be called the Theotokos. While some may acknowledge the Christ supposedly being two separate beings, they still forget the Theotokos part.

To say that Mary did not give birth to God, is to say that she did not bring God into the world, which is the same as saying that Christ was two separate beings. Granted, she did not give birth to the Trinity (which is something sometimes misunderstood) she did bring Christ into the world who is God.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

What he said.

 

[Yeznik]

Digging up the logic from the Third Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431:

-Christ is 100% God, 100% Man in the same body.
-Mary brought Christ into the world, in other words, gave birth to Christ.
-Christ is God, thus Mary gave birth to God.
-Final Analysis: Mary is the Theotokos (the God-bearer)

The part where Nestorius messed up, was the first part. Because he did not want to call Mary the Theokos, he concluded that she only brought Christ's humanity into the world and then concluded that Christ was in two separate bodies: God and man. (or something similar to that).

The part that many Protestants leave out from this Council, is that Mary is to be called the Theotokos. While some may acknowledge the Christ supposedly being two separate beings, they still forget the Theotokos part.

To say that Mary did not give birth to God, is to say that she did not bring God into the world, which is the same as saying that Christ was two separate beings. Granted, she did not give birth to the Trinity (which is something sometimes misunderstood) she did bring Christ into the world who is God.

Additionally, Christ took His human nature from Mary, which makes Christ, a physical part of Mary and Mary a physical part of Christ, any assertion that that Christs human nature is different then Mary's changes Christ nature into something not human.

In regards to Mary being the Azdvadzadzdin (Theotokos).

God the Son did not stop being God, when He was an infant, a toddler, a teenager and an adult. So Mary raised God the Son, from infancy to adulthood. In detail it would be said, that when Christ, the Son of God, was an infant He had a mother, that when Christ, the Son of God, was a toddler He had a mother, that when Christ, the Son of God, was a teenager He had a mother and if at anytime Christ stopped being God and was just human, then I would understand Mary being called the Christokos.

 

[Rick Otto]

Catholics take veneration of her too far with Rosary beeds, prayers, honoring images of her, believing they have a spiritual relationship with her, that they reach God/Jesus through her, and that she offers them gifts, that she was sinless, she was like an arc of the covenant, that she is the Queen of Heaven.

Aren't we taught that all honor and glory is reserved for Jesus and that all have sinned except the Holy One of God?

Yes.
You may call her "Mary, mother of Jesus."
Or if you want to sound impressive, "Jesustokos".

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Exactly.

Which makes her the Mother of God.

Dosen't mean I think she's divine. Blessed, very much so. But not some divine "Queen of Heaven"

 

[E.C.]

Dosen't mean I think she's divine. Blessed, very much so. But not some divine "Queen of Heaven"

Divine nay for everybody. Queen of Heaven is only among Roman Catholic circles. I'd say make a trip to OBOB and ask them why the title is there.

Besides, who said that she is divine?

 

[Oblio]

Or if you want to sound impressive, "Jesustokos".

Or heretical

 

[Oblio]

Dosen't mean I think she's divine.

Strawman by implication. WDBT !

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Strawman by implication. WDBT !

Don't use that debate terminology, i'm not debating. I guess I see "veneration" of Mary for more than it actually is.