Mary and Joseph

[IamAdopted]

becuase the bible does not tell us we are forbidden to have a devotion to her and the early father had a devotion to her and they learned from the apostles.

IAA, you have got to finally come to know what the difference is between doctrine, dogma and devotion.

I ca not keep dealing with your ignorance of Catholic teaching. It is not what you have been told it is.

We do not believ half or 75% of what yo calim we do.

I ask a question about Mary then you say this. Once again. Who gave here these titles? Where are they from? Why would someone want to give all these titles to her when the message is about Christ? I have read some of the Dogma's.. Tell me which ones you do not believe in..

 

[IamAdopted]

but how do you know you are the one who is reading the bible correctly and we are the one who aren't?

What do you mean read the bible correctly? I Read it.. I allow Gods word to get into my mind and heart and Spirit. I don't get what you mean by read it correctly. Is there a different way to read other than to open it up and read the bible?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

What do you mean read the bible correctly? I Read it.. I allow Gods word to get into my mind and heart and Spirit. I don't get what you mean by read it correctly. Is there a different way to read other than to open it up and read the bible?

if you notice..OR at least the catholic church I went to...NO ONE, not ONE carried a Bible. NO one. HOW in the world would they know if they are being led astray? Why do they not carry Bibles..read it for themselves? God speaks new and fresh things every day...goodness..I don't get that. Is the only right way the way the Pope/priest reads it to them?? I don't get it.

 

[sunlover1]

Jesus and His Church are not two separate things,

Amen

Ephesians 5:30-32
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother,
and shall be joined unto his wife,
and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


And the church is us,
the body of Christ right?

 

[Benedicta00]

Amen

Ephesians 5:30-32
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother,
and shall be joined unto his wife,
and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


And the church is us,
the body of Christ right?

Yes it is, again no false dichotomy.

The Church is both the visible Divine institution that Christ gave to us so we can know Him error free AND it is us, his flock.

 

[IamAdopted]

When are you all going to lose the false premises?

The Church does not claim to be impeccable just that her teachings are error free.

You are the one who keeps blurring the line between teaching and behavior.

And this is where we disagree.. The Rcc Teachings.. The teaching on Mary and on Purgatory and on pennance and all these things.. They are not found in scripture.. How can you be 100 % sure that these teachings are true? We can't find them in the Scriptures.. You say they are true because they claim to be true? This is what I am asking.. Where are these teachings coming from?

 

[Benedicta00]

if you notice..OR at least the catholic church I went to...NO ONE, not ONE carried a Bible. NO one. HOW in the world would they know if they are being led astray? Why do they not carry Bibles..read it for themselves? God speaks new and fresh things every day...goodness..I don't get that. Is the only right way the way the Pope/priest reads it to them?? I don't get it.

LOL, this is cute actually.. becuase the scriptures are in the missile.

When you went to Mass, you didn't realize that?

Every Mass has three readings from scripture and if you go to Mass daily for three years, you will have read the whole bible. 7 extra books and all.

 

[Benedicta00]

And this is where we disagree.. The Rcc Teachings.. The teaching on Mary and on Purgatory and on pennance and all these things.. They are not found in scripture.. How can you be 100 % sure that these teachings are true? We can't find them in the Scriptures.. You say they are true because they claim to be true? This is what I am asking.. Where are these teachings coming from?

YES THEY ARE-- YOU JUST DON'T THINK THAT THEY ARE.

How many times must I say this to you?

 

[Benedicta00]

What do you mean read the bible correctly? I Read it.. I allow Gods word to get into my mind and heart and Spirit. I don't get what you mean by read it correctly. Is there a different way to read other than to open it up and read the bible?

What makes you think your interpretations are correct and free from error?

 

[IamAdopted]

Cool it with the false premises, CJ,

The Church does not claim to be perfect, just that her teachings are free from error. Too bad the rest of you can't say the same, huh CJ?

Well the bible is free from Error for It is God breathed..Written and eternal.. It is teachings outside of the bible that I want to know how they came to be.. By who's authority.. I stand on the word of God.. To be truth,life,and all I need to be fully equipped.. You claim that the Catholics Church's teaching are without error but I can see error when I see what some of you say.. So tell me how this is.. Either the bible is error or the CC has error.. I would stand to think it is not the Bible..

 

[Benedicta00]

I ask a question about Mary then you say this. Once again. Who gave here these titles? Where are they from? Why would someone want to give all these titles to her when the message is about Christ? I have read some of the Dogma's.. Tell me which ones you do not believe in..

That depends, what titles are you referring to? Mother Of God? That was given to her buy the Church, the same Catholic Church council... you have got to hear this... it was the SAME council that canonized the scriptures.
Do you know why she was given this title?

becuase some nut was running around claiming Christ wasn't one divine person but two separate ppl and big surprise, he used scripture 'only' to prove he wasn't and the Church proved he was through Mary. because mothers do not give birth to natures only but to whole ppl, thus she is Mother of God.

 

[IamAdopted]

YES THEY ARE-- YOU JUST DON'T THINK THAT THEY ARE.

How many times must I say this to you?

No they are not.. How many times must I say this to you.. They are not in there.. The purgatory that you speak of . You gave me a scripture about the rewards. This has nothing to do with Purgatory... But rewards.. Adding to scripture from what the bible is saying..You claim they are in there.. You take a little piece of scripture and make a theory out of it instead of taking the Whole scripture and context and allowing God to show you what He is saying.. Confessing our sins is another.. Priest able to obsolve sins is another.. The list can go on.. I hear the same scripture from you over and over and over but put them in context and they don't say what you say they say..

 

[Benedicta00]

Well the bible is free from Error for It is God breathed..Written and eternal.. It is teachings outside of the bible that I want to know how they came to be.. By who's authority.. I stand on the word of God.. To be truth,life,and all I need to be fully equipped.. You claim that the Catholics Church's teaching are without error but I can see error when I see what some of you say.. So tell me how this is.. Either the bible is error or the CC has error.. I would stand to think it is not the Bible..

yeah but are you? Can you read the bible and be 100% sure you know what you interpret is not indeed a error?

I know I will grapple with some things in scripture, which is why God gave us a Church. Not just a book.

And BTW, how do you know the bible is indeed error free? Who told you.

 

[IamAdopted]

That depends, what titles are you referring to? Mother Of God? That was given to her buy the Church, the same Catholic Church council... you have got to hear this... it was the SAME council that canonized the scriptures.
Do you know why she was given this title?

becuase some nut was running around claiming Christ wasn't one divine person but two separate ppl and big surprise, he used scripture 'only' to prove he wasn't and the Church proved he was through Mary. because mothers do not give birth to natures only but to whole ppl, thus she is Mother of God.

Never heard of this nut as you say.. What about immaculate? What about ever virgin. What about dispenser of graces.. Some of those? Where are they from?

 

[Benedicta00]

No they are not.. How many times must I say this to you.. They are not in there.. The purgatory that you speak of . You gave me a scripture about the rewards. This has nothing to do with Purgatory... But rewards.. Adding to scripture from what the bible is saying..You claim they are in there.. You take a little piece of scripture and make a theory out of it instead of taking the Whole scripture and context and allowing God to show you what He is saying.. Confessing our sins is another.. Priest able to obsolve sins is another.. The list can go on.. I hear the same scripture from you over and over and over but put them in context and they don't say what you say they say..

yes they are... know why? becuase I read it.

now what is your authority- you objective measure other than your exegesis that will settle this finally?

prove to me you are right, and I'm not.

I will pull up every verse that teaches about purgatory and I want to know just who are you to tell me I'm wrong? That they mean something else?

 

[Benedicta00]

Never heard of this nut as you say.. What about immaculate? What about ever virgin. What about dispenser of graces.. Some of those? Where are they from?

Never heard of Nestorianism?

How come?

Nestorianism is the doctrine that Jesus exists as two persons, the man Jesus and the divine Son of God, or Logos, rather than as a unified person. This doctrine is identified with Nestorius (c. 386–c. 451), Patriarch of Constantinople. This view of Christ was condemned at the Council of Ephesus in 431, and the conflict over this view led to the Nestorian schism, separating the Assyrian Church of the East from the Byzantine Church.
The Assyrian Church of the East refused to drop support for Nestorius and denounce him as an heretic, and it has continued to be called "Nestorian" in the West, to distinguish it from other ancient Eastern churches. However, the Church of the East does not regard its doctrine as truly Nestorian, but rather teaches the view of Babai the Great, that Christ has two qnome (essences) which are unmingled and eternally united in one parsopa (personality). According to some interpretations, the origin of this confusion is mostly historical and linguistic: for example, the Greeks had two words for 'person', which translated poorly into Syriac, and the meanings of these terms were not even quite settled during Nestorius' lifetime.
Nestorianism originated in the Church in the 5th century out of an attempt to rationally explain and understand the incarnation of the divine Logos, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity as the man Jesus Christ. Nestorianism taught that the human and divine essences of Christ are separate and that there are two persons, the man Jesus Christ and the divine Logos, which dwelt in the man. In consequence, Nestorians rejected such terminology as "God suffered" or "God was crucified", because the humanity of Jesus Christ which suffered is separate from his divinity. Likewise, they rejected the term Theotokos (Giver of birth to God/Mother of God) as a title of the Virgin Mary, suggesting instead the title Christotokos (Giver of birth to Christ/Mother of Christ), because in their opinion Mary gave birth to only the human person of Jesus and not the divine.

 

[IamAdopted]

yeah but are you? Can you read the bible and be 100% sure you know what you interpret is not indeed a error?

I know I will grapple with some things in scripture, which is why God gave us a Church. Not just a book.

And BTW, how do you know the bible is indeed error free? Who told you.

I read Gods word and allow Gods word to speak to me.. I don't go in to interpret the bible.. The Holy Spirit quickens His word to my Spirit.. If I have a question then I will pray and ask God for Wisdom for this. He is the Author of His book so He can give me the wisdom to see what He is saying to me.. My husband and I will search the scriptures. I can also call my Pastor and He can give me more scripture to read to help me understand what God is trying to say.. Scripture supports scripture..

 

[Benedicta00]

What about dispenser of graces

isn't a doctrine or a dogma.

 

[Benedicta00]

I read Gods word and allow Gods word to speak to me.. I don't go in to interpret the bible.. The Holy Spirit quickens His word to my Spirit.. If I have a question then I will pray and ask God for Wisdom for this. He is the Author of His book so He can give me the wisdom to see what He is saying to me.. My husband and I will search the scriptures. I can also call my Pastor and He can give me more scripture to read to help me understand what God is trying to say.. Scripture supports scripture..

Gee that is what happens to me too... so again, why am i believing one thing and you another?

 

[sunlover1]

Gee that is what happens to me too... so again, why am i believing one thing and you another?

It's not the Word, and it's not the Holy
Spirit.
Hmm, what's the third common element?