Mark of the Beast

[Jimlarmore]

Some sda's seem to want to say it's ok to teach against observing the Sabbath. Some say that behavior is insignificant. These same folks say you can't keep from sinning so why even try. My question is this.

In light of all the above what do you folks think the Mark of the Beast actually is?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[woobadooba]

Some sda's seem to want to say it's ok to teach against observing the Sabbath. Some say that behavior is insignificant. These same folks say you can't keep from sinning so why even try. My question is this.

In light of all the above what do you folks think the Mark of the Beast actually is?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

It's what you just described above!

Now what do you think that means? What's really at the heart of this issue? Why are they trying so hard to please people? What is this a sign of? What is at the heart of their approach to the truth?

The mark of the beast isn't a day. It is a world-view!

 

[sentipente]

Jim, are you sure you have your facts straight? Your tendency to sensationalize instead of objective discussing does not cast a very kind light on the cause you represent.

 

[Telaquapacky]

Jim,
I believe we need to be careful to make a distinction. It is not, nor has it ever been the official or unofficial teaching of the Seventh-day Adventist Church that Sundaykeeping is the mark of the beast.

Our teaching is that the mark of the beast is the persecution of Sabbath-keepers by Sunday-keepers. EGW and others have said that this will take the form of a national Sunday law in the United States. I'm sure of it. Already, without any Sunday law, it is more difficult to compete in business, and impossible to gain employment in certain trades unless you break the Sabbath. Our buying and selling are already curtailed.

But you know very well that if it comes down to actual persecution by Sunday-keepers of Sabbath-keepers, the day of worship is not really what is in question. In fact, when the Pharisees persecuted Jesus about the Sabbath, the day of worship or how to keep it holy was only a pretext for a bigger issue.

The issue at stake in the mark of the beast is, "Who is in charge? Who has authority on earth to make moral law? The bottom line is, who are we loyal to, God or man?

The Greek word for mark in Revelation 14 is "charagma," an etching, or stamp, but Strong's dictionary says it is like a badge of servitude. One who bears the mark of the beast is in some way serving the beast, either by obedience to the beast, or by standing for the principles or ideology of the beast. Loyalty.

That people keep one day of the week or another is important only as it indicates where their loyalties are. That many Christians worship on Sunday doesn't mean that they are intentionally serving the beast or trying to defy God. To their minds, they are honoring the day of Christ's resurrection. But when that time comes, and people are moved to actually boycott and bankrupt, or later kill others over a day of worship, it is clear that they are serving something other than Jesus Christ. That is the point of the mark of the beast- not a day.

 

[Jimlarmore]

That people keep one day of the week or another is important only as it indicates where their loyalties are. That many Christians worship on Sunday doesn't mean that they are intentionally serving the beast or trying to defy God. To their minds, they are honoring the day of Christ's resurrection. But when that time comes, and people are moved to actually boycott and bankrupt, or later kill others over a day of worship, it is clear that they are serving something other than Jesus Christ. That is the point of the mark of the beast- not a day.

I think you got all of this pretty much right on my friend. I believe there will come a time when we will have to prove we are attending a Sunday church to be able to buy or sell anything. The final battle will be over loyalty to God or man. I noticed not too many responded. Do you consider yourself a progressive or conservative?

I really wanted to know what the progressive's thought. Mr. Senti obviously does not want to give us his true thoughts on this , he thinks I'm trying to sensationalize this issue . Anyone else?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[sentipente]

Hey, anyone can believe anything, even stuff that makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Hey, anyone can believe anything, even stuff that makes absolutely no sense.

Instead of making one line put downs of what has been said why not give us your version of what the Mark of the Beast is?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[sentipente]

Instead of making one line put downs of what has been said why not give us your version of what the Mark of the Beast is?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jim what I believe won't make sense to you as long as you believe that the wreck represents train. If you are willing to ask, "Did the ancients realy understand the world in which they lived" we would have some basis of interaction. These people lived in a world, as we do, where you belonged to one side or another and that is the way they saw everything. They could not fathom a universe that had one single owner and everything belonged to him. God had to speak to them in that context.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Jim what I believe won't make sense to you as long as you believe that the wreck represents train. If you are willing to ask, "Did the ancients realy understand the world in which they lived" we would have some basis of interaction. These people lived in a world, as we do, where you belonged to one side or another and that is the way they saw everything. They could not fathom a universe that had one single owner and everything belonged to him. God had to speak to them in that context.

So, let me get this straight again. You don't believe the passages in Rev 14:9-10 represent anything that will come to pass in the future? It's just babylings of an ancient mind from an ancient culture that has no meaning or future impact on us today? Is that it?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[TrustAndObey]

Good luck getting a straight answer Jim. I'm telling you, you're not going to see many progressive viewpoints actually voiced. Why? Because then it isn't just a matter of putting down what Traditionals believe, it becomes about actually having to defend what THEY believe.

I think Telaqua is right on the money.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Good luck getting a straight answer Jim. I'm telling you, you're not going to see many progressive viewpoints actually voiced. Why? Because then it isn't just a matter of putting down what Traditionals believe, it becomes about actually having to defend what THEY believe.

I think Telaqua is right on the money.

I think you are right on with this assessement sister. The only progressive I have seen that really will engage us is freeindeed2. The other's like to dialog negative statements and throw mud but contribute very little in the line of Bible study. I may not have it all right but I will tell you what I believe and why I believe it based on the Bible. Too bad the others can't or don't want to do that.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[TrustAndObey]

I think you are right on with this assessement sister. The only progressive I have seen that really will engage us is freeindeed2. The other's like to dialog negative statements and throw mud but contribute very little in the line of Bible study. I may not have it all right but I will tell you what I believe and why I believe it based on the Bible. Too bad the others can't or don't want to do that.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

That's because Free isn't a Progessive! HA! He isn't even Adventist anymore.

I agree, I don't have all the answers either, but by golly I'll tell you what I believe and why, instead of just throwing out insults.

 

[StormyOne]

Good luck getting a straight answer Jim. I'm telling you, you're not going to see many progressive viewpoints actually voiced. Why? Because then it isn't just a matter of putting down what Traditionals believe, it becomes about actually having to defend what THEY believe.

I think Telaqua is right on the money.

not true of all..... maybe some do that, but not all... this statement is akin to saying all Traditionals are hateful, judgmental, and unforgiving..... however people will believe what they believe....

 

[sentipente]

So, let me get this straight again. You don't believe the passages in Rev 14:9-10 represent anything that will come to pass in the future? It's just babylings of an ancient mind from an ancient culture that has no meaning or future impact on us today? Is that it?

Jim, knowledge is progressive. If I told my daughter everything I know about statistics it would make no sense to her. I have to speak to her in terms of what she already understands. At best Revelation represents a worst case scenario. We tend to see it as a prophecy. This is why we are so impotent, unlike the people in Nineveh who recognized that they had the power to change the future. John saw a city with gates because he lived in a world where security was represented by a city with gates. But why would we need a city, let alone gates, in a world where there is nothing to fear and nothing to keep out? What I believe is simple. There is one Creator and Ruler of the universe. He is the only eternal and infallible being in the universe. Everything else is subject to review. He is the only authority.

 

[sentipente]

. I may not have it all right but I will tell you what I believe and why I believe it based on the Bible.

That's a strange claim to make seeing how you are not prepared to accept all the implications of a single Creator for the entire universe.

 

[StormyOne]

Jim, knowledge is progressive. If I told my daughter everything I know about statistics it would make no sense to her. I have to speak to her in terms of what she already understands. At best Revelation represents a worst case scenario. We tend to see it as a prophecy. This is why we are so impotent, unlike the people in Nineveh who recognized that they had the power to change the future. John saw a city with gates because he lived in a world where security was represented by a city with gates. But why would we need a city, let alone gates, in a world where there is nothing to fear and nothing to keep out. What I believe is simple. There is one Creator and Ruler of the universe. He is the only eternal and infallible being in the universe. Everything else is subject to review. He is the only authority.

Unfortunately Senti for some that is not enough... for some they need to have the security in the idea that they are "the right ones" with " the right truth" and everyone who doesn't believe as they do is hellbound.....

 

[TrustAndObey]

Unfortunately Senti for some that is not enough... for some they need to have the security in the idea that they are "the right ones" with " the right truth" and everyone who doesn't believe as they do is hellbound.....

See! That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Don't give an alternative answer or anything Stormy, just shoot down the one we have and insult us. It's a lot safer that way, I agree.

 

[sentipente]

See! That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Don't give an alternative answer or anything Stormy, just shoot down the one we have and insult us. It's a lot safer that way, I agree.

Let's at least be honest. He just told you what he agreed with -- That the Creator is the only authority -- yet you post here that he does not give an alternative answer.

 

[.chrys.]

Forgive me for interrupting, (not even sure if I'm allowed to post in this thread) but I'd always thought the mark of the beast was supposed to be written on our hands or foreheads, thus signifying what we do and think.

It is my personal opinion that we have all received the mark of the beast and that it is being burned out of us even as we grow.

(Feel free to delete this if I'm not supposed to be posting here. No worries.)

 

[sentipente]

Forgive me for interrupting, (not even sure if I'm allowed to post in this thread) but I'd always thought the mark of the beast was supposed to be written on our hands or foreheads, thus signifying what we do and think.

It is my personal opinion that we have all received the mark of the beast and that it is being burned out of us even as we grow.

I can't respond to you until you tell me why you believe as you do. What is the basis of your belief?