Nooj said:
You said that Jesus became fully human. So presumably, there was a time when he wasn't fully human. What was he? Fully God?
Hi Nooj. Since your questions seem sincere, I'll do my best to help answer them. Yes, scripture certainly indicates that there was a time when "Jesus" (even though He wasn't referred to by that name at the time) was fully God.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3)
Scriptures such as this one (and many more like them) certainly indicate that "Jesus" (He was referred to as "The Word") was there "in the beginning" and that He "was God" or part of a triune Godhead. According to scripture, all things were made by Him, so He is actually the One Who did the creating. At some point in history, somewhere around 2000 years ago, "the Word" took on human form or "became flesh".
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
As in the Old Testament type in the temple where "the veil" stood between the people and the presence of God in the Holy of Holies, One of the Persons of the Godhead came down to earth "veiled in flesh" (as mentioned in the lyrics of "Hark the Herald Angels Sing"). In Philippians, we read:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Philippians 2:5-8)
I don't want to speak on behalf of any other forum members, but I think that it's pretty safe to assume that this particular passage of scripture is what "ebia" was referring to when she said:
ebia said:
Jesus became fully human - that means giving up "superpowers" to be as human as you or me.
She later added:
ebia said:
Jesus is one person. "set-aside" is perhaps a better phrase than "given up".
I would suggest that "set aside" or even "laid aside" is much better terminology. It's sort of like a King "laying aside" His Kingly robes and walking as a commoner amongst His subjects. In essence, that is what Jesus did. I'll be happy to engage you in a discussion as to why Jesus did this, if you so desire to do so. For now, however, I'll seek mainly to answer your initial question on this thread, namely:
Nooj said:
Mark 13:32 But about that day and that hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.
How can Jesus not know when the Second Coming will be? Isn't he supposed to be omniscient?
Since Jesus "laid aside His Kingly robes" (so to speak) and functioned as a Man Who was limited to what was revealed in scripture or through prayer and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, AT THE TIME OF HIS INCARNATION, He did not know "the day or the hour". I'm fully convinced, and I'll momentarily explain to you why, that that is no longer the case. In other words, I believe that Jesus now has a much better understanding of both the day and the hour than He did when He walked this earth somewhere around 2000 years ago. Where shall I begin? Well, the book of Daniel seems as good a place as any. Daniel was a prophet of the Lord who had many future "revelations" given to him. However, regarding the VERY END (which is what you're asking about), we read the following:
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up thy words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed and sealed till the time of the end." (Daniel 12:1-9)
That was a mouthfu/brainful. Since I have no idea as to the depth of your knowledge concerning Bible prophesy, I'll just make a few brief general comments (and I'll be happy to support my comments with New Testament scriptures, if you so desire) and then address your specific question more fully.
1. Daniel's mention of "Michael, the great prince" refers to the archangel Michael who will be involved in a heavenly fight with Satan and his angels just prior to what is commonly known as "the great tribulation".
2. Daniel's mention of the "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" refers to a 3 1/2 year period of time that constitutes the aforementioned "great tribulation".
3. Daniel's mention of "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" refers to the two future resurrections that await the dead. Some will be part of the resurrection unto eternal life and others, unfortunately, will be part of the resurrection unto eternal damnation and torment.
4. Daniel's mention of those who "shall shine as the brightness of the firmament" and "as the stars for ever and ever" refers to the glorified bodies that believers will receive in the kingdom to come.
5. The mention of "a time, times, and an half" by the man clothed in linen refers to the same 3 1/2 year period that is commonly known as "the great tribulation" with "a time" equalling 1 year.
Like I said, we can discuss that more fully, if you'd like to. For now, I want you to notice the following two statements that I underlined in my quote from Daniel chapter 12:
"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end..." (Daniel 12:4)
"And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." (Daniel 12:9)
There were certain things regarding the end times that were "shut up", "closed up" and "sealed till the time of the end". Since Jesus, in His incarnation, limited Himself (when He "laid aside His Kingly robes") to what was revealed in scripture, AT THAT TIME He didn't know "the day or the hour". As I said earlier, I believe that that is no longer the case. Why? Here's why:
"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith to me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals..." (Revelation 5:1-6:1)
In this portion of scripture, we see Jesus taking a book that was sealed out of the Father's hand. Throughout the book of Revelation, we see Jesus "opening these seals" or releasing information that had previously been "shut up", "closed up" or "sealed till the time of the end" (Remember Daniel?). In fact, if we go back to the very first verse of Revelation, we read:
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John." (Revelation 1:1)
Passages such as these certainly seem to indicate that Jesus was given further Revelation by the Father AFTER His resurrection from the dead. Jesus, in turn, passed this "Revelation" (that's what this particular book of the Bible is all about) unto the Apostle John who, in turn, passed it on unto us. Anyhow, that's a brief introduction. As I said, I'm willing to discuss these things more fully with you, if you but so desire to do so. I sincerely hope that this helped.
Take care.
