male wrestler refuses to wrestle girl

poeticlurker

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At first I thought this was about violence against women- while wrestling isn't inherently violent it could look that way and the guy did not want to wish to harm the girl.

Though it seems that he was wishing to avoid appearing to sexually assault the girl. Wrestling can also look a bit... inappropriate, though it certainly isn't that way. His only fault is being too respectful.

If the girl wants to wrestle, let her wrestle.
 
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Gecko King

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At first I thought this was about violence against women- while wrestling isn't inherently violent it could look that way and the guy did not want to wish to harm the girl.

Though it seems that he was wishing to avoid appearing to sexually assault the girl. Wrestling can also look a bit... inappropriate, though it certainly isn't that way. His only fault is being too respectful.

If the girl wants to wrestle, let her wrestle.

Well, based on what Northrup himself said, it seem be more about sex than violence:

In a statement, Joel Northrup said his decision is based on family beliefs that such contact between a boy and a girl is inappropriate.

When we talk about "inappropiate" contact between a boy and a girl, it's generally not about one beating up the other.
 
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Drathnor

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I don't think it's "sticky," or "complicated," issue at all. I mean, come on. Either she can wrestle other girls (if there are any) or she shouldn't be wrestling at all, period. This isn't like co-ed soccer matches between 10 year olds where physical differences are not so pronounced, this is HS and it's wrestling.

Im pretty sure sexual desire is supressed by your face hitting the mat when your distracted by breasts. There is a huge differance between sexual activity and wrestling when said wrestling is a sport, if your unable to differenciate between them then your in the wrong sport.

Not really, I just think it's a moronic comment. So what if I don't think women should wrestle with men, I'm not ouright against it, I just, off hand, don't think they should using the same reasoning as I don't it's proper for men to hit women, why? Because there is obvious biological differences. That's about it.

Sensible response:

Women are weaker then men, and should not compete together in physical contest simply because it is unfair

Sex differences in humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Nonsensical response:
I'd be more likely to pay to watch 2 girls wrestle than any other combination.
Im pretty sure in every wrestling match someone will be stronger, but if your technique is better your more likely to win.
 
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Andrew Ryan

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Im pretty sure sexual desire is supressed by your face hitting the mat when your distracted by breasts. There is a huge differance between sexual activity and wrestling when said wrestling is a sport, if your unable to differenciate between them then your in the wrong sport.

I never once mentioned the possible sexual aspect of man-woman wrestling at all. I am talking about the biological differences of men and women.
 
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Im pretty sure in every wrestling match someone will be stronger, but if your technique is better your more likely to win.

Depends, honestly. You can use technique to overcome a stronger opponent, but strength and weight are a huge advantage, especially if you know how to use them. Which makes it all the more cool that she's able to compete with the guys at a high level imo.

Andrew Ryan, don't you think that she's a better judge of her physical abilities than you are? I mean, she's been wrestling, she's qualified for the round, as far as I can tell she's doing alright for herself.

PS To all the martial artists in the thread, I'd be curious what you guys practice!
 
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keith99

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Depends, honestly. You can use technique to overcome a stronger opponent, but strength and weight are a huge advantage, especially if you know how to use them. Which makes it all the more cool that she's able to compete with the guys at a high level imo.

Andrew Ryan, don't you think that she's a better judge of her physical abilities than you are? I mean, she's been wrestling, she's qualified for the round, as far as I can tell she's doing alright for herself.

PS To all the martial artists in the thread, I'd be curious what you guys practice!

Wrestling is the one sport where size should not be an issue.

If I rememebr correctly both the girls who made it to the state meet had winning records.

The male wrestler who decided to follow his principles was very clear and almost aggressive about complimenting both of the girls who had made it to the state meet.
 
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Protocol11

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I just want to know, what did the girl think about him walking off the mat? She came there to wrestle, not get treated like a princess or a second class citizen who doesn't have the right to tussle with a man.

I was drunk wrestling with a chick this weekend. My shoulder still hurt. The black eye I got from when she face planted me into a gas stove is just now going away. Just because they have vaginas don't mean they can't kick butt.
 
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rambot

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Tough issue I'd think.
Is it possible some male wrestlers would have to adapt their holds/throws or whatever in case they are worried about "man-handling" a female? Not that they would be less violent about it but it seems like this could be an advantage for female wrestlers.
 
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Drathnor

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Is it really possible to man handle a girl while wrestleing? Its not like there asking for any extra considerations.

There could be a slight advantage if the man alters his form without thinking because he is really self aware its a girl he is wrestleing, but thats up to him to solve.
 
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azureblue00

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Just throwing in my two cents.

First referring specifically to a high-school wrestling team. My high-school did not offer that activity, and it's a difficult thing to comment on.

As mentioned already, there's the danger of some jerk 'copping a feel' in which case, who's to blame? How do we determine if it was accidental, or not? In my experience in martial arts class, such a thing does not happen, at least not with any frequency, because I personally have never, nor would I intentionally 'cop a feel' and have never accidentally done so either. It's sort of natural, in a match like that, there's really little you can accomplish as far as winning goes that involves having your hands around someone's chest (male or female) likewise for the groin' so, it doesn't really matter if it's male or female those areas of the body tend to be avoided, IN JUJITSU! Keeping in mind I have never been involved in high-school wrestling, I do NOT know what moves are taught in that environment.

Now to speak about real-life self defense scenarios, along with martial arts, primarily Jujitsu, which is something I am familiar with.


As a very passionate martial artist, that was one of my greatest hurdles, was grappling (jujitsu/ground/wrestling matches) with girls, or just stand-up sparring. I'm a male, raised in a Christian family, in the Southern USA. Thus, by tradition, one is not to assault a girl. Not even playing...you don't hurt girs...you don't pretend to hurt girls, that's just the philosophy I was raised with.

I remember what my instructor in martial arts said when I was telling one of the girls this, and she was astonished by it, and was telling him. His reply was so beautifully to the point. He said, "If she hits him hard enough, he will."

See, I must first note, the dojo where I study is based primarily on self-defense, actually learning how to deal with potentially being raped, or murdered, by one, or multiple assailants.

Thus, the mentality of this dojo is, it doesn't matter if it's a man, or a woman, if they stab you with a knife, you're going to bleed, and potentially die. Knives do not magically dull in the hands of a petit female.

Thus, I learned that it's actually sexist to consider NOT fighting off a woman, it's to consider them less of a threat.

Now, relating to any sexual issues. I can tell you honestly, in the heat of a sparring match, or grappling match, you really don't have time to notice these things. Most of the females in my dojo at the time were all higher ranked then I, and in grappling matches, would tear me to pieces, I didn't have time to think about her being pressed up against me, I was just trying to free myself from whatever vicious hold she had me in long enough to get my face off the mat and gasp for oxygen lol.

So, yeah, from my personal experience, keeping in mind, I'm heavily referring back to my beginnings in martial arts when I was like 15-16 years old...practically the height of male-hormone rages.

It's also scientific. It's a proven medical fact that when someone is forced to focus on a physically/mentally streneous task hard enough, that the brain (seeking efficiency) will actually cut out 'peripheral' functions to allocate more effort into the said task. Martial arts for example: during a sparring or grappling match, I wouldn't even acknowledge if it was a male or female, you don't even perceive any of the people around you, you hear the instructor's voice as he offers advice, and you think only on how to win the match. It's that simple really.

Also, I consider refusal to spar, grapple, or wrestle a female, simply because she's a female, while chivalrous in intent, is really cruel, and unfair to her.

Keeping in mind, I've been trained in a self-defense dojo, to deal with real-world life or death situations. So, from my perspective, if a lady, God forbid, is ever faced with a larger man trying to rape her, spending all of her time wrestling other females will NOT help her, she will have needed experience dealing with someone physically larger, and stronger than herself, not to mention simple anatomy, she would need experience learning how to inflict greater pain on a male, with different anatomy than a female (not just counting the 'obvious' differences, but also things such as males naturally having less flexible joints."

In the reverse, I've had relatives whom have dated very dangerous ladies. In fact, one 16 year old relative of mine dated an 18 year old lady, and in one case at a friend's house she attempted to attack him, to physically fist-fight him, using the martial arts that he knew, he was able to successfully block her off, and then hold her back until some other people pulled her away. So, in that case, it's good that he was mentally prepared for fighting a female, otherwise that situation could have become very ugly.

I hope I've made a useful contribution to this thread, and I hope I've made my stance clear, that I'm just trying to offer my paradigm on it, not force my opinions onto others. I mean no offense to anyone, male or female.
 
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JustMeSee

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I hope I've made a useful contribution to this thread, and I hope I've made my stance clear, that I'm just trying to offer my paradigm on it, not force my opinions onto others. I mean no offense to anyone, male or female.
You expressed yourself very well. :thumbsup:
---
I am guessing the two girls were pretty tough, since they made it to the state championships.
 
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azureblue00

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Thank you JustMeSee, I appreciate that. I tell ya, I've got some war stories from the matches with females. I remember the first time I grappled one of them...to this day, it remains the only time in a match that I was thrown to the ground TWICE in the same move before being tied into a human pretzel. :D
 
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Paxton25

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I believe that it is a mistake for society to allow boys to face girls in combat sports. If a boy believes it's acceptable to fight a girl in the ring, what will hold him back when he's a man?

'Sorry' brute indicted in car-space attack

The 25-year-old Bronx woman, who stands a mere 4-foot-11, had been standing in a parking space on East 14th Street to reserve it for her boyfriend last week when Fuller drove up in his silver minivan and demanded she move.

She refused, and the pair started arguing.

''She hit me first, and as you know, there are cameras everywhere in New York City,'' said Fuller, who is 5-foot-7 and 150 pounds.

Rosas remains in a coma at Bellevue Hospital.

Court papers say Fuller ''punched [her] in the face with so much force that the woman flew off her feet.''

Rosas was left lying unconscious in a pool of blood flowing from her cracked skull.

Oscar Fuller, Queens man indicted over East Village ''parking spot'' assault on Lana Rosas - NYPOST.com

There was a time when every boy was told over and over, never strike a girl. A young man was taught, never strike a woman. Are mixed combat sports really a good idea? I don't think so; not for women, not for our society.

Schools and dojos need to rethink this situation very carefully.
 
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keith99

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Yes, by all means, let us think of women as fragile and helpless. Of course in doing so we help create the reality.

Notice how modern women no longer gat teh vapors and faint at the slightest provocation?

I believe that it is a mistake for society to allow boys to face girls in combat sports. If a boy believes it's acceptable to fight a girl in the ring, what will hold him back when he's a man?

'Sorry' brute indicted in car-space attack

The 25-year-old Bronx woman, who stands a mere 4-foot-11, had been standing in a parking space on East 14th Street to reserve it for her boyfriend last week when Fuller drove up in his silver minivan and demanded she move.

She refused, and the pair started arguing.

''She hit me first, and as you know, there are cameras everywhere in New York City,'' said Fuller, who is 5-foot-7 and 150 pounds.

Rosas remains in a coma at Bellevue Hospital.

Court papers say Fuller ''punched [her] in the face with so much force that the woman flew off her feet.''

Rosas was left lying unconscious in a pool of blood flowing from her cracked skull.

Oscar Fuller, Queens man indicted over East Village ''parking spot'' assault on Lana Rosas - NYPOST.com

There was a time when every boy was told over and over, never strike a girl. A young man was taught, never strike a woman. Are mixed combat sports really a good idea? I don't think so; not for women, not for our society.

Schools and dojos need to rethink this situation very carefully.
 
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J

justaguy78

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I am fine with males vs females in physical sports (they are choosing to take part) and I don't buy into the "never hit a woman" deal as not all women are tiny creatures and if a woman instigates things and starts to hit you then it is silly to just stand there and take it. Does that mean you should pummel her if you can? No but to think you shouldn't lay a finger on her if she is attacking you is ridiculous to me.

If a woman doesn't want to be hit then she sure better not hit anyone first. Using the story above about the woman with the car space...I'm sorry but if she truly hit the guy first and hit him in the face then she basically got what she had coming. To think otherwise basically implies one feels women should be allowed to just hit guys without consequence.

It's pretty simple though to me- I would not go up to a person bigger than me and hit them so any woman should logically conclude the same thing when it comes to guys who are bigger/stronger than them.

What about small guys? Why should it be ok for a guy who is say 5'2" and 110 pounds to be pounded on by a guy who is 6'5" and 250? Because he has a penis? Makes no sense.

What about women like Gina Carano? If the avg guy were to hit her she'd beat the crap out of them. Why should she get protected from the "never hit a woman" jig when she could easily beat up most guys?

My take of course is you shouldn't hit anyone unless it is in self defense regardless of sex or size. I have never hit a woman nor will I if no woman ever hits me first. If a woman just out of the blue punched me in the face or in the testicles then I am going to hit her back though I would probably just shove her or hit her in the arm.

Oh and so it doesn't come off like I think women are fair game, I find women abusers (as in those who beat on their women in arguments or just because they are drunk/find it enjoyable) to be horrible people and they should be put in the ring with some mixed martial artists and see how tough they are then.
 
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