Malachi 4 Question

[macher]

Gather all the wealth of the nations and pay tribute to the Jews? Could you say a little bit more about that?

Not just wealth/money. Israel Jerusalem will be the theocratic capitol of the world. All the children of Israel will be in the Land. Gentile nations will have their respected nations. Gentile nations will be required to make pilgrimage for some of the feasts.

 

[visionary]

Do you think that Yeshua works within the financial world in His Kingdom?

 

[macher]

Do you think that Yeshua works within the financial world in His Kingdom?

No I just threw that out there

 

[mishkan]

Gather all the wealth of the nations and pay tribute to the Jews? Could you say a little bit more about that?

Ever read the last few chapters of Yeshayahu/Isaiah? This says very literally that the Gentile nations will bring honor to Israel and Israel's king, including the wealth of the nations and all their resources. We often miss this because

a. we rarely read the prophets

b. we get most of our information about passages like this from "devotional" songs, which insert the Gentile audience into the text

When we read this in context, it is about the regathering and restoration of Israel, pure and simple.

1 Arise, shine; For your light has come! And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you. 2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, And deep darkness the people; But the Lord will arise over you, And His glory will be seen upon you. 3 The Gentiles shall come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising. 4 "Lift up your eyes all around, and see: They all gather together, they come to you; Your sons shall come from afar, And your daughters shall be nursed at your side.

5 Then you shall see and become radiant, And your heart shall swell with joy; Because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you, The wealth of the Gentiles shall come to you. 6 The multitude of camels shall cover your land, The dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; All those from Sheba shall come; They shall bring gold and incense, And they shall proclaim the praises of the Lord. 7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together to you, The rams of Nebaioth shall minister to you; They shall ascend with acceptance on My altar, And I will glorify the house of My glory.

8 "Who are these who fly like a cloud, And like doves to their roosts? 9 Surely the coastlands shall wait for Me; And the ships of Tarshish will come first, to bring your sons from afar, their silver and their gold with them, to the name of the Lord your God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because He has glorified you.

10 "The sons of foreigners shall build up your walls, And their kings shall minister to you; For in My wrath I struck you, But in My favor I have had mercy on you. 11 Therefore your gates shall be open continually; They shall not be shut day or night, That men may bring to you the wealth of the Gentiles, And their kings in procession. 12 For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish, And those nations shall be utterly ruined.

13 "The glory of Lebanon shall come to you, The cypress, the pine, and the box tree together, To beautify the place of My sanctuary; And I will make the place of My feet glorious. 14 Also the sons of those who afflicted you shall come bowing to you, And all those who despised you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet; And they shall call you The City of the Lord, Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

15 "Whereas you have been forsaken and hated, So that no one went through you, I will make you an eternal excellence, A joy of many generations. 16 You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles, And milk the breast of kings; You shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

17 "Instead of bronze I will bring gold, Instead of iron I will bring silver, Instead of wood, bronze, And instead of stones, iron. I will also make your officers peace, And your magistrates righteousness. 18 Violence shall no longer be heard in your land, Neither wasting nor destruction within your borders; But you shall call your walls Salvation, And your gates Praise.

19 "The sun shall no longer be your light by day, Nor for brightness shall the moon give light to you; But the Lord will be to you an everlasting light, And your God your glory. 20 Your sun shall no longer go down, Nor shall your moon withdraw itself; For the Lord will be your everlasting light, And the days of your mourning shall be ended. 21 Also your people shall all be righteous; they shall inherit the land forever, the branch of My planting, the work of My hands, that I may be glorified. 22 A little one shall become a thousand, And a small one a strong nation. I, the Lord, will hasten it in its time."

 

[CherubRam]

Not just wealth/money. Israel Jerusalem will be the theocratic capitol of the world. All the children of Israel will be in the Land. Gentile nations will have their respected nations. Gentile nations will be required to make pilgrimage for some of the feasts.

Ever read the last few chapters of Yeshayahu/Isaiah? This says very literally that the Gentile nations will bring honor to Israel and Israel's king, including the wealth of the nations and all their resources. We often miss this because

a. we rarely read the prophets

b. we get most of our information about passages like this from "devotional" songs, which insert the Gentile audience into the text

When we read this in context, it is about the regathering and restoration of Israel, pure and simple.

Thank you very much for your input. I will have to give these things some thought.

 

[macher]

Thank you very much for your input. I will have to give these things some thought.

Zech 14:16-19
16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

 

[CherubRam]

Zech 14:16-19
16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

Thanks again Marcher.

 

[CherubRam]

I wonder how God came up with the calculations that the wealth of the world could fit into the temple in Jerusalem. My best guess is that it would take a space of twelve hundred square miles. Thoughts?

 

[Lulav]

Ever read the last few chapters of Yeshayahu/Isaiah? This says very literally that the Gentile nations will bring honor to Israel and Israel's king, including the wealth of the nations and all their resources. We often miss this because

a. we rarely read the prophets

b. we get most of our information about passages like this from "devotional" songs, which insert the Gentile audience into the text

When we read this in context, it is about the regathering and restoration of Israel, pure and simple.

And don't forget that it is often missed because of replacement theology.

 

[macher]

And don't forget that it is often missed because of replacement theology.

Or it's allegorized. It's interesting when you talk to people about the Tabernacle/Temple in the Old Testament they say it was real but when you come to Ezekiel which gives details of the Messianic Temple they'll say it's symbolic or an allegory.

Actually if you study the Messianic Temple/Messianic Age it's not the Mosaic re-newed.

 

[mishkan]

I wonder how God came up with the calculations that the wealth of the world could fit into the temple in Jerusalem. My best guess is that it would take a space of twelve hundred square miles. Thoughts?

Haven't you ever heard of electronic banking? Why do we assume that the Kingdom under Messiah will be based on Neanderthal technology?

 

[mishkan]

And don't forget that it is often missed because of replacement theology.

Well, yes... I was picturing that under my point "b.". It helps keep the conversation moving if we don't explicitly bring up the "RT" term, I think.

 

[CherubRam]

Haven't you ever heard of electronic banking? Why do we assume that the Kingdom under Messiah will be based on Neanderthal technology?

The scriptures said material goods of all kinds.

 

[visionary]

Or back to the good ol' days, when we brought what our labors increased were.

 

[Avodat]

What makes anyone think G_d would want money - it is a man thing, not a G_d thing. He would have no need for it. Wealth, in Biblical terms, is not money!

 

[CherubRam]

Ever read the last few chapters of Yeshayahu/Isaiah? This says very literally that the Gentile nations will bring honor to Israel and Israel's king, including the wealth of the nations and all their resources. We often miss this because

a. we rarely read the prophets

b. we get most of our information about passages like this from "devotional" songs, which insert the Gentile audience into the text

When we read this in context, it is about the regathering and restoration of Israel, pure and simple.

Christians often interpret the word "Israel" and "Judah" to mean resident of Israel and the faithful. Is that what you guys call "Replacement Theology?" I ask this because I see that your interpretations a very literal.

 

[macher]

Christians often interpret the word "Israel" and "Judah" to mean resident of Israel and the faithful. Is that what you guys call "Replacement Theology?" I ask this because I see that your interpretations a very literal.

Israel consists of the physical descendants of Israel; Abraham>Isaac>Jacob. Then you have the believing remnant. The believing remnant is fulfilling 'the calling' per se.

Replacements theology can mean different things such as the Church replacing Israel in what Israel role is. Or the belief that as a Gentile you become an 'Israeli'. As there are promises made specifically to the descendants of Jacob. Gentiles become equal co-heirs in the Promise that all nations will be blessed by the Seed which is Messiah. In other words partakers not take-overs.

 

[CherubRam]

Israel consists of the physical descendants of Israel; Abraham>Isaac>Jacob. Then you have the believing remnant. The believing remnant is fulfilling 'the calling' per se.

Replacements theology can mean different things such as the Church replacing Israel in what Israel role is. Or the belief that as a Gentile you become an 'Israeli'. As there are promises made specifically to the descendants of Jacob. Gentiles become equal co-heirs in the Promise that all nations will be blessed by the Seed which is Messiah. In other words partakers not take-overs.

Christians are taught that God is no respecter of persons. I presume that is the reason they do not believe they will be Hebrew servents. If only Hebrews can be Israelis, and Judah the faithful; then that would make Christianity a waste of time, if we are less than fellow human beings. And you guys wonder why the worldly hate you. You can stop wondering. Anyway, we do care about you, and we hope you will have a change of heart.

 

[Qnts2]

Christians are taught that God is no respecter of persons. I presume that is the reason they do not believe they will be Hebrew servents. If only Hebrews can be Israelis, and Judah the faithful; then that would make Christianity a waste of time, if we are less than fellow human beings. And you guys wonder why the worldly hate you. You can stop wondering. Anyway, we do care about you, and we hope you will have a change of heart.

Jumping in on this.

Messianic Judaism also believes that God is no respecter of persons. All people are loved and the way to salvation is the same for all people.

An Israelite is a descendent of Jacob. So, either a person is born a physical descendent of Jacob or they aren't. Scripture tells us that linage means nothing when it comes to eternal salvation, as being a descendent of Jacob doesn't mean a person is saved, and not being a descendent of Jacob does not mean a person can not be saved.

So, ultimately, linage means nothing eternally and for eternal blessings.

So, why would a person hate another because of a differing linage? I will never be of the linage of the King of England, and I will never be Irish. It just isn't my linage. But, in Messiah, I can join with those who are in the linage of the King of England, and join in with the Irish, as equals, before the Lord in prayer and praise, and as brothers and sisters.

As far as calling, God is not a respecter of persons, but He does give different people different callings. Although, God will not call a man to give birth, but He will call a woman to give birth. So while God is not a repecter of persons, there are differences between men and women, and with differing callings.

 

[macher]

Christians are taught that God is no respecter of persons. I presume that is the reason they do not believe they will be Hebrew servents. If only Hebrews can be Israelis, and Judah the faithful; then that would make Christianity a waste of time, if we are less than fellow human beings. And you guys wonder why the worldly hate you. You can stop wondering. Anyway, we do care about you, and we hope you will have a change of heart.

You're missing the point. God isn't a reactor of persons as Peter said 'they are saved the same way as us'.

There are unconditional promises that pertain ONLY to the descendants of Israel. That a lot of believers disregard and/or believe that God has relinquished His promises to Israel.