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Malachi 4 Question

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by CherubRam, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    Who are all of these people that go out from where? Leaping like calves as though they were unaffected by what has taken place in the world.



    Malachi 4

    New International Version 1984

    The Day of the Lord

    4 “Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall. 3 Then you will trample down the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things,” says the Lord Almighty.

    4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

    5 “See, I will send you the prophet Elijah (John the Baptist) before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.”
     
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  2. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    :yawn::scratch::sleep:
     
  3. WOFFED

    WOFFED Guest

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    It’s obvious the *people first of all are those Israelites who as true worshippers that both fear and honor Yahweh. Finally freed (yet to come) from the religious hypocrisy they are finally "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty we are free at last!" And in a manner of speaking they behave(rejoice) like penned up calves that are finally set free at last.

    Hypocrisy of the Pharisees, Matt 23:1-36

    Malachi 2:1-2 Complete Jewish Bible (CBJ)
    1 “Now, cohanim, this command is for you.
    2 If you won’t listen, if you won’t pay attention
    to honoring my name,”
    says Adonai-Tzva’ot,
    “then I will send the curse on you;
    I will turn your blessings into curses.
    Yes, I will curse them,
    because you pay no attention.

    Malachi 3:16-18 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
    16 Then those who feared Adonai spoke together;
    and Adonai listened and heard.
    A record book was written in his presence
    for those who feared Adonai
    and had respect for his name.
    17 “They will be mine,” says Adonai-Tzva’ot,
    “on the day when I compose my own special treasure.
    I will spare them as a man spares his son who serves him.
    18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.




     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2013
  4. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    OK. So then, you say the people are Israelis. But where have they come from, not being affected by what has taken place in the world?
     
  5. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    Do all Messianics believe that God will destroy all the Gentiles to save certain Israelis?:confused:
     
  6. WOFFED

    WOFFED Guest

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    1. Israel will prevail over its enemies
    Bible passage: Isaiah 41:12-14
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 41:12-14, the prophet said God would help Israel during times of conflict with enemies (if the people have faith in God). Isaiah said this during a time when the northern kingdom of Israel had already been conquered by the Assyrian Empire. And the southern kingdom, Judah, was about to be conquered by Babylon. (The Bible explains that Israel and Judah lost their independence because so many of the residents had turned to false religions). But, since 1948 when Israel was re-established, Israel has been attacked by much-larger countries. And Israel has prevailed in each of those attacks. This prophecy has found partial fulfillment; Christian scholars believe that a time will come when all of Israel's enemies are destroyed.

    Here is Isaiah 41:12-14
    Though you search for your enemies, you will not find them. Those who wage war against you will be as nothing at all. For I am the Lord, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you. Do not be afraid, O worm Jacob, O little Israel, for I myself will help you," declares the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

    2. The ruins of Israel would be rebuilt
    Bible passage: Amos 9:11, 13
    Written: about 750 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Amos 9:11, 13, the prophet said that God would restore the land of David. (King David ruled Israel from about 1010 BC to about 970 BC). The land of David - Israel - was conquered and destroyed by the Babylonians, Assyrians and Romans. The land has been in ruins for much of the past 2000 years. The Jews, who had been scattered throughout the world, began to return in large numbers during the past 100 years. Since then, they have been rebuilding many of Israel's ancient cities. Amos also said there would be continuous planting and harvesting. During the past 100 years, the Jews have been using advanced farming and irrigation techniques to turn barren land into productive farmland. Today, Israel is a source of food for many countries.

    Here is Amos 9:11, 13
    "In that day I will restore David's fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be,'' … "The days are coming," declares the Lord, "when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills."

    3. Ezekiel prophesied prosperity for modern-day Israel
    Bible passage: Ezekiel 36:11
    Written: between 593-571 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Ezekiel 36:11, the prophet said that there would come a time when Israel would be more prosperous than it was in the past. The Bible describes Israel as being a prosperous nation during the time of King David and King Solomon about 3000 years ago. But, Ezekiel knew a very different Israel. In Ezekiel's day (he lived about 2600 years ago), the northern kingdom of Israel already had been decimated by the Assyrians, and the southern kingdom (called Judah) was being destroyed by the Babylonians. In the centuries that followed these destructions, Jews rebuilt the city of Jerusalem, but their homeland was destroyed again, by the Romans, about 1900 years ago. Since then, a majority of Jews have lived in exile. But during the past 100 years, millions of Jews from around the world moved to Israel and they have been rebuilding the country once again. Today, Israel again is an independent nation, as it was in the days of King David, and it is one of the world's most prosperous countries. In 1999, Israel had the highest per capita Gross Domestic Product of any nearby country, even though the surrounding countries have many oil resources.

    Here is Ezekiel 36:11
    I will increase the number of men and animals upon you, and they will be fruitful and become numerous. I will settle people on you as in the past and will make you prosper more than before. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

    4. Trees again would grow in Israel
    Bible passage: Isaiah 41:18-20
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 41:18-20, the prophet's talk of a future restoration of Israel coincides with an occurrence in modern Israel - the construction of a vast irrigation system to improve farming. The lack of available water, including rain, is one reason why Israel had been a desolate, unproductive land during much of the past 2000 years. But, during the 1900s, when many Jews returned to their ancient homeland, they built a network of irrigation systems. And during the past century, more than 200 million trees have been planted in Israel.

    Here is Isaiah 41:18-20
    I will make rivers flow on barren heights, and springs within the valleys. I will turn the desert into pools of water, and the parched ground into springs. I will put in the desert the cedar and the acacia, the myrtle and the olive. I will set pines in the wasteland, the fir and the cypress together, so that people may see and know, may consider and understand, that the hand of the Lord has done this, that the Holy One of Israel has created it.

    5. Isaiah said Israel's fruit would fill the world
    Bible passage: Isaiah 27:6
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 27:6, the prophet said Israel would one day blossom and fill the world with fruit. This prophecy has been at least partially fulfilled, literally and symbolically. Today, the land of Israel, which had been barren for centuries, is a leading producer of agricultural products, exporting food to many countries. This prophecy also has been fulfilled symbolically with the worldwide spread of Christianity. Christianity, which began with Jesus in Israel, now has about 2 billion followers worldwide.

    Here is Isaiah 27:6
    In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit.

    6. Jerusalem would become the world's most important religious site
    Bible passage: Micah 4:1
    Written: sometime between 750-686 BC
    Fulfilled: Today
    In Micah 4:1, the prophet said that the Temple mount in Jerusalem would become the focal point of the world. This prophecy has not yet been fulfilled. But, it is interesting to note that Jerusalem is, and has been for centuries, the world's most important religious site. Christians and Jews regard the city as the world's most important, and Christians and Jews comprise about one-third of the world's population. No other city in the world is a religious focal point to as many people.

    Here is Micah 4:1
    In the last days the mountain of the Lord's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it
    .
    7. Egypt would never again rule over other nations
    Bible passage: Ezekiel 29:15
    Written: between 593-571 BC
    Fulfilled: 1967, etc.
    In Ezekiel 29:15, the prophet says that Egypt would recover from a desolation (perhaps Babylon's attack about 2600 years ago), but that it would never again rule over other nations. Up until the time of Ezekiel, Egypt had been a world power for centuries, dominating many nations, including Israel. But for most of the past 2500 years, Egypt has been controlled by foreign powers, including the Romans, Ottomans and Europeans. Today, Egypt is an independent nation again. In 1948, 1967 and 1973, Egypt tried to dominate Israel but was unsuccessful each time, despite the fact that Egypt is 10 times larger than Israel. Since the time of Ezekiel, Egypt no longer rules over other nations.

    Here is Ezekiel 29:15
    It will be the lowliest of kingdoms and will never again exalt itself above the other nations. I will make it so weak that it will never again rule over the nations.

    8. Zechariah prophesied the Jews return to Jerusalem
    Bible passage: Zechariah 8:7-8
    Written: between 520 and 518 BC
    Fulfilled: 1967, etc.
    In Zechariah 8:7-8, the prophet said God would bring the Jews back from the east and the west to their homeland (Israel) and that they would be able to live in the city of Jerusalem again. This prophecy has been fulfilled more than once. About 2600 years ago, Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and took many Jews as captives to Babylon. But many Jews later returned from Babylon. The Jews rebuilt Jerusalem but the city was destroyed about 1900 years ago by the Romans. The Romans killed more than 1 million Jews and forced many more into exile. The Jews did not have control of Jerusalem again until 1967 when the Jews recaptured the city during the Six Day War.

    Here is Zechariah 8:7-8
    This is what the Lord Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west. I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God."

    9. Israel's deserts will become like the Garden of Eden
    Bible passage: Isaiah 51:3
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: Being fulfilled now
    In Isaiah 51:3, the prophet said that God will restore Israel and make it a paradise, like the garden of Eden. This foreshadows what is currently happening in Israel. The Jews have been irrigating, cultivating and reconditioning the land during much of the 1900s. Many of the country's swamps, which had been infested with malaria, have been converted into farmland. And water from the Sea of Galilee has been channeled through portions of the deserts, allowing some of the deserts to bloom. Much work remains, but parts of Israel are blooming again. Although it was described as a wasteland as recently as the late 1800s, Israel is now a food source for many countries. And at least 200 million of trees have been planted there during the past century.

    Here is Isaiah 51:3
    The Lord will surely comfort Zion and will look with compassion on all her ruins; he will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the Lord. Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing.

    10. Isaiah foretold of the worldwide return of Jews to Israel
    Bible passage: Isaiah 43:5-6
    Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
    Fulfilled: late 1900s
    In Isaiah 43:5-6, the prophet Isaiah said that the Jews would return to their homeland from the east, the west, the north and the south. Isaiah lived about 2700 years ago. At that time, the Assyrians had forced many Jews in the northern kingdom of Israel into exile. Those Jews were taken to other areas in the Middle East. Then, about 1900 years ago, the Romans destroyed the city of Jerusalem and killed and exiled hundreds of thousands of Jews. Since then, the Jews have been scattered to virtually every country in the world. But, during the past century, millions of Jews have returned to Israel, from the east, the west, the north and the south.

    From the east: Many Jews living in the Middle East moved to Israel by the early 1900s.
    From the west: During mid-1900s, hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West (Europe and the United States) began moving to Israel.
    From the north: The former Soviet Union (Russia) is north of Israel. Russia finally began to allow Jews to return to Israel during the 1980s. So far, hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews have moved to Israel.
    From the south: In 1985, Israel struck a deal with Ethiopia's communist government to allow the Jews of Ethiopia to move to Israel. On the weekend of May 25, 1991, 14,500 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel.

    Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the north (Russia) and the south (Ethiopia) would have to be persuaded to give up their Jews. Many countries pressured Russia for years before it began to allow its Jews to leave. And Ethiopia had to be paid a ransom to allow its Jews to leave.

    Isaiah's prophecy was also correct in saying that the Jews would return "from the ends of the earth," and Isaiah said that many centuries before the Jews had been scattered to the ends of the earth. During the past 100 years, Jews living as far east as China, as far west as the West Coast of the United States, as far north as Scandinavia, and as far south as South Africa, have moved to Israel.

    Here is Isaiah 43:5-6
    "Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, `Give them up!' and to the south, `Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth…

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2013
  7. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    Then is it the intentions of the Messianics to take control of the temple? Will Messianics be a middle wall partition between God and the Gentiles?
     
  8. macher

    macher Active Member

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    It's God's intentions :) Being a light to the world will become fulfilled with Jesus as King and the children of Israel in the Land.
     
  9. Lulav

    Lulav Behold! He is Alive forevermore! Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    You are asking a lot of provocative questions.

    First study the history of the Jewish people, see that wherever they have gone they have been persecuted, tortured and murdered. There are many of the nations that are enemies of the Jews, way back when this was written and still today.

    This is a promise from G-d that he knows that they are afflicted and persecuted and it is something and some time to look forward to when they will no longer be fettered by the world that hates them. They will be allowed to run free because the L-RD will no longer allow the nations to persecute them, and these are the ones who hate G-d that hate his chosen people.
     
  10. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    I'm trying to find out what it is that Messianics believe, and what role do they think they will play in the future.
    Then is it the intentions of the Messianics to take control of the temple? Will Messianics be a middle wall partition between God and the Gentiles?
     
  11. Lulav

    Lulav Behold! He is Alive forevermore! Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I don't think we have an agenda, I for one would like to be numbered in the group that follow the lamb wherever he goes.......
     
  12. macher

    macher Active Member

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    Go here and listen to lesson 017...

    http://deanbible.org/andromedaCS.php?q=f&f=/Israelology/Audio+Files
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  13. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    If Messianics are the one and only way to God, then where does that leave room for others, like Christians?
     
  14. aniello

    aniello Guest

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    From what source did you get that notion?
     
  15. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    It's called flaming
     
  16. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    Originally Posted by WOFFED
    It’s obvious the *people first of all are those Israelites who as true worshippers that both fear and honor Yahweh. Finally freed (yet to come) from the religious hypocrisy they are finally "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty we are free at last!" And in a manner of speaking they behave(rejoice) like penned up calves that are finally set free at last.

    OK. So then, you say the people are Israelis. But where have they come from, not being affected by what has taken place in the world?

    From what I gather there are Messianics who have a literal interpretation of the bible. Meaning, the Jews and Israel are literally the Hebrew people. I have asked what role do Christians have in the future world, and the answer I got is that the Gentiles will be servants for the Jews. It is always interesting to know what different groups believe.
     
  17. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Remember the "least" to the "greatest" will include a multitude that no man can number...
     
  18. macher

    macher Active Member

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    Gentile nations will 'pay tribute' per se. If they don't they will not get rain as an example.
     
  19. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    That has to do with the resurrection. We are talking about the reign of Christ on Earth for the thousand years.
     
  20. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    Gather all the wealth of the nations and pay tribute to the Jews? Could you say a little bit more about that?
     
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