Make America Guilty Again

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

"No national government is worse or better than the other."

You think studying history is going to support that statement?

You have got be pulling my leg with that statement.

Accidentally or deliberately? You do realize there's a difference between collateral damage and actually targeting innocents, right?

I'm sorry but how the does that distinction somehow make the killing of innocent people by drone strikes and bombs somehow better?

And now that your expectations have hit rock bottom, nothing Trump could possibly do will shock or disappoint you.

We call that "normalization" -- and I suspect that was the goal all along.

Oh, I've held this view of American politics since the Obama administration and also started actually learning about the previous US Presidents.
So don't you DARE try and lump me in with those idiots who voted in Trump.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Not having that. Not with New Zealand just sitting over there.

Okay, I have to ask: what is the basis behind that one? Why do Aussies not like the Kiwis?

 

[Armoured]

Okay, I have to ask: what is the basis behind that one? Why do Aussies not like the Kiwis?

I think a better question is, why does anyone else not dislike them as much as we do?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I think a better question is, why does anyone else not dislike them as much as we do?

... can't fault that line of logic.
Just, if you do finally do something, don't endanger the actual Kiwi birds. They're just innocent bystanders.

 

[Armoured]

... can't fault that line of logic.
Just, if you do finally do something, don't endanger the actual Kiwi birds. They're just innocent bystanders.

*snort* Birds? They can't even fly! How can they be birds if they don't even fly? AND they're cannibals!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

*snort* Birds? They can't even fly! AND they're cannibals!

View attachment 189408

Oh, why can't this website let me press 'funny' and 'win' at the same time?

 

[Aryeh]

Trump repeats respect for 'killer' Putin in Fox Super Bowl interview

Donald Trump has once again said that he respects Vladimir Putin, even though the Russian president is “a killer”.

“He’s a killer, though,” O’Reilly said. “Putin’s a killer.”

“There are a lot of killers,” Trump answered. “We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent?”

On Sunday, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell was asked what his response would have been if President Obama had compared the US to Russia under Putin.

He said Putin was a “former KGB agent and a thug” and said: “I don’t think there’s any equivalency between the way Russians conduct themselves and the way the United States does.

“I’m not going to critique the president’s every utterance, but I do think that America is exceptional, America is different, we don’t operate in any way the way the Russians do. There’s a clear distinction here that all Americans understand and I would not have characterised it that way.”

So is Trump right that we are as guilty as Russia? If so, should we be proud of ourselves?

America is the mirror image of Russia.

America is the pot; Russia is the kettle. Both are "noir."

 

[TLK Valentine]

The last time I checked, Putin is not a Communist.

Well, that makes it all better, then...

 

[Aryeh]

The US murders dissenters?

Yes.

Absolutely.

Have you heard of whistleblowers?

 

[Armoured]

The last time I checked, Putin is not a Communist.

Communists can be idealistic.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You have got be pulling my leg with that statement.

Can't say that I am.

I'm sorry but how the does that distinction somehow make the killing of innocent people by drone strikes and bombs somehow better?

If you don't know the distinction between an accident and a murder, I can't help you.

Oh, I've held this view of American politics since the Obama administration and also started actually learning about the previous US Presidents.
So don't you DARE try and lump me in with those idiots who voted in Trump.

If the shoe fits, normalize it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Can't say that I am.

So I guess you've never read about any of the history of the US actively supporting revolutionary groups in Africa during the 60's and 70's to actively topple the Colonial governments to replace them with governments more supportive of them?
Or about the US and UK backing the toppling of the President of Iran in 1953 to replace him with someone who'll sell them oil at a better price, while also putting someone in to power who the people actively hate?

If you don't know the distinction between an accident and a murder, I can't help you.

So I guess the death of Abdulraham al-Awlaki, the second US citizen to be killed in a drone strike just because his father was ALLEGED to be a recruiter of Al-Qaeda, with no evidence given by the US government, was just an accident then?

If the shoe fits, normalize it.

Well, if we're going by that logic, there are so many words that I can think of that will fit you but CF's rules really wouldn't let me.

 

[The Barbarian]

And you have actual evidence that Putin is Trumps patron?

• Trump praises Putin lavishly.
• Putin praises Trump lavishly.
  
• Trump weakened a republican platform item on Ukraine that offended Putin.
• A Trump advisor was given a huge cash payoff by a pro-Russian faction in Ukraine.
• Trump has said that he might not honor our NATO committments, if Russia attacks a NATO member.
• Trump denied that Russian forces were operating in Ukraine.
• US intelligence has a tape of high Russian officials congratulating themselves on Trump winning.
• Trump nominates a secretary of state who is close to Putin
  
• Russian intelligence hacked and release DNC emails, helping Trump.
• Carter Page served as a foreign policy adviser for Trump until U.S. intelligence officials began looking into whether Mr. Page had opened a line of communication with senior Russian officials to discuss lifting economic sanctions on Russia should Trump win the presidency.
• In 2008, Donald Trump Jr. — the GOP nominee’s son and the VP for Development for The Trump Organization — told attendees at a real estate conference in New York City that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”
• All recent presidential candidates have released their tax returns, except Trump. Trump has repeatedly refused to show his tax returns, which would give us some indication of how much leverage Putin has on him.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

• Trump praises Putin lavishly.
• Putin praises Trump lavishly.
  
• Trump weakened a republican platform item on Ukraine that offended Putin.
• A Trump advisor was given a huge cash payoff by a pro-Russian faction in Ukraine.
• Trump has said that he might not honor our NATO committments, if Russia attacks a NATO member.
• Trump denied that Russian forces were operating in Ukraine.
• US intelligence has a tape of high Russian officials congratulating themselves on Trump winning.
• Trump nominates a secretary of state who is close to Putin
  
• Russian intelligence hacked and release DNC emails, helping Trump.
• Carter Page served as a foreign policy adviser for Trump until U.S. intelligence officials began looking into whether Mr. Page had opened a line of communication with senior Russian officials to discuss lifting economic sanctions on Russia should Trump win the presidency.

Those are claims, not evidence. For them to be evidence, you actually have to show something.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So I guess you've never read about any of the history of the US actively supporting revolutionary groups in Africa during the 60's and 70's to actively topple the Colonial governments to replace them with governments more supportive of them?
Or about the US and UK backing the toppling of the President of Iran in 1953 to replace him with someone who'll sell them oil at a better price, while also putting someone in to power who the people actively hate?

Of course I know about those things -- I know our government has done some very shady and underhanded things in its past.

But just because we're not perfect doesn't mean we belong at the bottom of the barrel with the likes of Saddam, Mao, Stalin, and and the risk of Godwinning the thread, you-know-who...

Putin's not on that level either, but nor are we on his.

So I guess the death of Abdulraham al-Awlaki, the second US citizen to be killed in a drone strike just because his father was ALLEGED to be a recruiter of Al-Qaeda, with no evidence given by the US government, was just an accident then?

I know that's the claim... whether you believe it or not, the fact that you respond with outrage rather than resigned acceptance, or worse, cheers, tells me we're better than the people you would have us admire.

Well, if we're going by that logic, there are so many words that I can think of that will fit you but CF's rules really wouldn't let me.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em (within the bounds of CF rules, of course). by your own words, you don't see our government as any better than those of the worst thugs in history. Therefore, you won't be the least bit surprised when President Trump openly emulates them. If he behaves even the slightest bit better than them, you might even cheer.

That, my friend, is normalization in a nutshell... once you stop believing you deserve better, you stop fighting for it.

 

[The Barbarian]

Those are claims, not evidence.

They are facts. No point in denying them. If you doubt this, pick one or two and I'll show you how we know it's true.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

"Do this thing" like have his critics jailed?
"Do this thing" like have his political opponents assassinated?

Russia does neither...

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Of course I know about those things -- I know our government has done some very shady and underhanded things in its past.

But just because we're not perfect doesn't mean we belong at the bottom of the barrel with the likes of Saddam, Mao, Stalin, and and the risk of Godwinning the thread, you-know-who...

Putin's not on that level either, but nor are we on his.

But the US has been reaching that level. The government might not have been actively working against it's own people like almost all of those examples did (you-know-who is kind of 50/50 on whether he would be internal or external), but the fact that US has actively worked to destabilize governments across the world for their own ends does not make it a good government.

I know that's the claim... whether you believe it or not, the fact that you respond with outrage rather than resigned acceptance, or worse, cheers, tells me we're better than the people you would have us admire.

So I guess Robert Gibbs, Obama's press secretary at the time's, comments on his death, " "Maybe he (Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki) should've had a more responsible father" doesn't fill you with the same level of disgust as some of Trump's blatantly racist spiel.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em (within the bounds of CF rules, of course). by your own words, you don't see our government as any better than those of the worst thugs in history. Therefore, you won't be the least bit surprised when President Trump openly emulates them. If he behaves even the slightest bit better than them, you might even cheer.

Quote me as saying that I don't see the US as any better than the worst thugs of history.

That, my friend, is normalization in a nutshell... once you stop believing you deserve better, you stop fighting for it.

Well then maybe you Americans should stop limiting yourself to the two-party system that blatantly does not work and the system that your own Founding Father explicitly told you not to go with.

 

[Armoured]

Russia does neither...

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

They are facts. No point in denying them. If you doubt this, pick one or two and I'll show you how we know it's true.

Show me that they are facts for points number 5 and 6.