Make America Guilty Again

[SoldierOfTheKing]

What an eloquent rebuttal. Guess you think you can just making damning accusations against the Russian president without offering anything to substantiate them

 

[TLK Valentine]

Russia does neither...

Russia has its own holiday to commemorate murdered journalists.

Just sayin'

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

List of journalists killed in the United States

Just sayin'

You need evidence implicating the Russian government in the deaths of those journalists...

 

[Armoured]

What an eloquent rebuttal. Guess you think you can just making damning accusations against the Russian president without offering anything to substantiate them

Knock yourself out
Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko - Wikipedia
Putin used a synthesised radioactive element that doesn't naturally occur on Earth to kill this guy. It was traced to a Russian nuclear plant. That's Bond Villain territory

 

[TLK Valentine]

But the US has been reaching that level. The government might not have been actively working against it's own people like almost all of those examples did (you-know-who is kind of 50/50 on whether he would be internal or external), but the fact that US has actively worked to destabilize governments across the world for their own ends does not make it a good government.

I'm deeply saddened that you see no moral distinction between our government and those butchers... I hope you do someday.

So I guess Robert Gibbs, Obama's press secretary at the time's, comments on his death, " "Maybe he (Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki) should've had a more responsible father" doesn't fill you with the same level of disgust as some of Trump's blatantly racist spiel.

#AlternativeFacts

Gibbs had actually stepped down months before the death, and was not even part of the Obama administration when he made those comments.

Quote me as saying that I don't see the US as any better than the worst thugs of history.

As you wish: "No national government is worse or better than the other." You made only one exception in that statement -- North Korea -- so I didn't include Kim Jong Un on the list.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I'm deeply saddened that you see no moral distinction between our government and those butchers... I hope you do someday.

I wish that I could live in a world as purely black and white as yours. I really wish I could.

#AlternativeFacts

Gibbs had actually stepped down months before the death, and was not even part of the Obama administration when he made those comments.

You are correct on that one. I misread the connotation of 'form White House press secretary' and assumed that part was changed because of the change from Obama administration to Trump. That is purely a misreading on my part.

As you wish: "No national government is worse or better than the other." You made only one exception in that statement -- North Korea -- so I didn't include Kim Jong Un on the list.

And? I stand by that comment.

 

[The Barbarian]

Show me that they are facts for points number 5 and 6.

TRUMP: I don’t want to tell you what I’d do because I don’t want Putin to know what I’d do. I have a serious chance of becoming president and I’m not like Obama, that every time they send some troops into Iraq or anyplace else, he has a news conference to announce it.

SANGER: They are NATO members, and we are treaty-obligated ——

TRUMP: We have many NATO members that aren’t paying their bills.

SANGER: That’s true, but we are treaty-obligated under NATO, forget the bills part.

TRUMP: You can’t forget the bills. They have an obligation to make payments. Many NATO nations are not making payments, are not making what they’re supposed to make. That’s a big thing. You can’t say forget that.

SANGER: My point here is, Can the members of NATO, including the new members in the Baltics, count on the United States to come to their military aid if they were attacked by Russia? And count on us fulfilling our obligations ——

TRUMP: Have they fulfilled their obligations to us? If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.

HABERMAN: And if not?

TRUMP: Well, I’m not saying if not. I’m saying, right now there are many countries that have not fulfilled their obligations to us.
Donald Trump's NATO Remarks Stuns U.S. Allies


Donald Trump said in an interview Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin isn't going to go into Ukraine, even though the Russian military has intervened in the nation's affairs since 2014.

"He's not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He's not gonna go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down," the GOP presidential nominee said Sunday on ABC's "This Week." Host George Stephanopoulos pushed back, saying, "Well, he's already there, isn't he?"
Trump: Putin's 'not gonna go into Ukraine'

 

[wing2000]

It's actually quite clever -- putting America on the same moral ground as Russia will make it so much easier to normalize Trump when he starts using Putin's tactics.

...exactly.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Walter Cronkite died under the Obama administration when Hilary Clinton was Secretary of State…

murdered?

 

[TLK Valentine]

List of journalists killed in the United States

Just sayin'

You need evidence implicating the Russian government in the deaths of those journalists...

And if I can prove that the Russian government was responsible for the deaths of every single journalist on the list, will you then accept the possibility that maybe, just maybe, we're better than they are?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I wish that I could live in a world as purely black and white as yours. I really wish I could.

Which is funny, since my whole point is that we live in shades of grey (and a lot more than fifty).

It would take a lot more than a few bad actions to put on on the level you would have us at -- You already live in a purely black and white world.

And? I stand by that comment.

And... I stand by mine.

 

[bhsmte]

Right. But they weren't proud of it.

Trump is proud to say that his patron is a killer.

I didnt detect pride in trumps comments. Again, his comments were politically incorrect, but likely were quite accurate.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Donald Trump's NATO Remarks Stuns U.S. Allies

That one reads more like a Machiavellin interpretation of "You scratch my back, I scratch yours". Not an outright refusal to stop Russia in the (highly unlikely) event of World War 3.

Trump: Putin's 'not gonna go into Ukraine'

That one seems like Trump doesn't really know geography. Although that article does raise the question of what he means by "Obama's already there" since I've not seen anything to indicate that the US has sent forces, special or otherwise, in to the Ukraine.

Although then again we're talking about a businessman, not a politician.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Which is funny, since my whole point is that we live in shades of grey (and a lot more than fifty).

It would take a lot more than a few bad actions to put on on the level you would have us at -- You already live in a purely black and white world.

How is saying that no world government is innocent putting the world in a black and white view? For there to be a black and white view, there has to be a good guy and a bad guy and there are no good guy's in this world.
As a great author once said: "I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people... You’re wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."

And... I stand by mine.

Shall we call this an impasse then? Since we both know that neither of us are really going to back down from our respective viewpoints.

 

[Tallguy88]

Remember, boys and girls, the Right went into hysterics when Obama put a Mao ornament of the White House Christmas Tree...

White House Christmas Decor Featuring Mao Zedong Comes Under Fire

...but Trump can put America on the same level of a murderous thug like Putin, and they cheer.

Putin and Mao are not comparable. Mao has more bodies to his name than even Stalin or Hitler.

 

[HannahT]

So I guess Robert Gibbs, Obama's press secretary at the time's, comments on his death, " "Maybe he (Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki) should've had a more responsible father" doesn't fill you with the same level of disgust as some of Trump's blatantly racist spiel.

#AlternativeFacts

Gibbs had actually stepped down months before the death, and was not even part of the Obama administration when he made those comments.

Actually, here is the video of him saying it. In case I didn't do the link right? Point 4:33

 

[Armoured]

Putin and Mao are not comparable. Mao has more bodies to his name than even Stalin or Hitler.

Is that a qualitative or merely quantitative difference?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Putin and Mao are not comparable. Mao has more bodies to his name than even Stalin or Hitler.

True -- and a Christmas ornament (which, IIRC was a gift from someone else) is not comparable to public praise, or hearing our own president put our country on the same level as his.

Can we agree that had Trump made the same "we're not so innocent" comment in defense of Mao, Stalin, or Hitler, even the Right would've hit the ceiling?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Actually, here is the video of him saying it. In case I didn't do the link right? Point 4:33

Not saying that he didn't say it (I know he did), but he wasn't Obama's press secretary when he said it.

I would expect (or at the least, I would certainly hope), that if he had been, Obama would've promptly fired him. That's what happens when you expect more from your government than from, for example, Putin's.