Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

[mark kennedy]

So heck, vote for a Dem and that will work out much better?

There is more then one issue and it rarely matters in Indiana where I live. Time and time again I see what this looks like in office so I'm voting my conscience based on overall agenda and potential. Not some emotional hot button topic focused on something that rarely changes much.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

There is more then one issue and it rarely matters in Indiana where I live. Time and time again I see what this looks like in office so I'm voting my conscience based on overall agenda and potential. Not some emotional hot button topic focused on something that rarely changes much.

Oh dear, can't respond fully because of the parameters of the OP. I'm not a one topic/hot button voter we are discussing one issue that should matter very much to all Christians. It is somewhat frightening that people are so dismissive and permissive about abortion in our country...even some Christians. If they weren't so dismissive I think much would change in terms of the American conscience and that would spill over to many areas. Let's look for true justice and righteousness and righteous principles in laws we pass...start by seeing if they contradict Scripture.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Oh dear, can't respond fully because of the parameters of the OP. I'm not a one topic/hot button voter we are discussing one issue that should matter very much to all Christians. It is somewhat frightening that people are so dismissive and permissive about abortion in our country...even some Christians. If they weren't so dismissive I think much would change in terms of the American conscience and that would spill over to many areas. Let's look for true justice and righteousness and righteous principles in laws we pass...start by seeing if they contradict Scripture.

Most girls and women who have abortions are Christians. They make the choice to end their pregnancies. However, this does not reflect the majority opinion of all Christians on abortion.

Secular laws can't be determined by God's laws, as I have explained many times. If God tells you to drink wine before age 21, are you going to do it? OF COURSE NOT, because it is against the law.

 

[mark kennedy]

Oh dear, can't respond fully because of the parameters of the OP. I'm not a one topic/hot button voter we are discussing one issue that should matter very much to all Christians. It is somewhat frightening that people are so dismissive and permissive about abortion in our country...even some Christians. If they weren't so dismissive I think much would change in terms of the American conscience and that would spill over to many areas. Let's look for true justice and righteousness and righteous principles in laws we pass...start by seeing if they contradict Scripture.

Obviously I don't think so, there is nothing cut and dried about these issues based on Biblical testimony. I'm neither dismissive or permissive about abortion, but I'm a realist and with some modifications Roe v. Wade is likely to remain Supreme Court precedence. I'm not voting Republican over the abortion issue, I just think that is reckless. As i recall Roe v. Wade allowed abortion on demand in the first trimester, some restrictions by the states in the second and in the third trimester if the mother's life is in danger. I'm not seeing the right come up with alternative solutions here other then unrealistic bans and extreme measures not likely to make it through the Federal Courts.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Here it is Mark:

The Court settled on the three trimesters of pregnancy as the framework to resolve the problem. During the first trimester, when it was believed that the procedure was safer than childbirth, the Court ruled that the government could place no restriction on a woman's ability to choose to abort a pregnancy other than minimal medical safeguards such as requiring a licensed physician to perform the procedure. From the second trimester on, the Court ruled that evidence of increasing risks to the mother's health gave the state a compelling interest, and that it could enact medical regulations on the procedure so long as they were reasonable and "narrowly tailored" to protecting mothers' health. Since the beginning of the third trimester was normally considered to be the point at which a fetus became viable under the level of medical science available in the early 1970s, the Court ruled that during the third trimester the state had a compelling interest in protecting prenatal life, and could legally prohibit all abortions except where necessary to protect the mother's life or health.

Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Most girls and women who have abortions are Christians. They make the choice to end their pregnancies. However, this does not reflect the majority opinion of all Christians on abortion.

Secular laws can't be determined by God's laws, as I have explained many times. If God tells you to drink wine before age 21, are you going to do it? OF COURSE NOT, because it is against the law.

I am aware that many of the abortions are performed on Christian women...this fact hardly ameliorates the situation in my view...makes it even more of a problem. We can see from this that our girls are going out into a world thinking they'll find a spiritual match and retain their virginity but sin sets in and they become pregnant. For a number of reasons they resort to abortion.
What can be said about this? Perhaps most succinctly stated...
I Corinthians 15:33:
Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character".

But then too Romans explains the root of the growth of evil among God's people and people who are still of this world only...
Romans 1:21:
For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

If you know anything of the law of the US you know it is founded on Biblical principle so do not put forth that argument of not being able to legalize morality. Every country does to some extent. Killing babies is outrageous and we must see it as such. Our environment plays a big role in our morality...more than we wish and more than we care to admit.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I am aware that many of the abortions are performed on Christian women...this fact hardly ameliorates the situation in my view...makes it even more of a problem. We can see from this that our girls are going out into a world thinking they'll find a spiritual match and retain their virginity but sin sets in and they become pregnant. For a number of reasons they resort to abortion.
What can be said about this? Perhaps most succinctly stated...
I Corinthians 15:33:
Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character".

But then too Romans explains the root of the growth of evil among God's people and people who are still of this world only...
Romans 1:21:
For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

If you know anything of the law of the US you know it is founded on Biblical principle so do not put forth that argument of not being able to legalize morality. Every country does to some extent. Killing babies is outrageous and we must see it as such. Our environment plays a big role in our morality...more than we wish and more than we care to admit.

I should have added this passage...
Romans 1:18:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness...
But, there is so much more in Romans about wickedness, its extent, its blinding and hardening effect and capacity...in light of this we certainly should be warning anyone we know about any type of sin including abortion...
Revelation 3:15-16:
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm,--neither hot nor cold-- I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
So, we have serious duties...
Ezekiel 33:7-9:
“Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the people of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Obviously I don't think so, there is nothing cut and dried about these issues based on Biblical testimony. I'm neither dismissive or permissive about abortion, but I'm a realist and with some modifications Roe v. Wade is likely to remain Supreme Court precedence. I'm not voting Republican over the abortion issue, I just think that is reckless. As i recall Roe v. Wade allowed abortion on demand in the first trimester, some restrictions by the states in the second and in the third trimester if the mother's life is in danger. I'm not seeing the right come up with alternative solutions here other then unrealistic bans and extreme measures not likely to make it through the Federal Courts.

There is cut and dry Biblical law against killing a human and Scripture clearly portrays the unborn as human and assigns them the value and protection under law as humans.

 

[GodLovesCats]

There is cut and dry Biblical law against killing a human and Scripture clearly portrays the unborn as human and assigns them the value and protection under law as humans.

The law that governs whether unborn babies have rights or not is totally different and written by men.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The law that governs whether unborn babies have rights or not is totally different and written by men.

That is what the world says, yes, I'm not backward, but the world, it's government, is upon the shoulders of the Lord...Isaiah 9:6-7. Those of us who are Christians in my view should make every decision "For Christ" that "His will may be done on earth as it is in heaven". How does the Bible say to treat "outsiders/non-Christians...that must be taken into consideration while developing the Laws of the land and the framers of the Constitution did that for us quite nicely. The world will go from bad to worse says Timothy and end times teachings so why do you assume we are not slipping our way down the wrong path. I feel you aren't recognizing it for what it is. Furthermore, government is made up of men...lawyers are men and they all have souls and many are indeed Christians. Where there is opportunity they should seek to do God's will. Government is now actively and sometimes even deliberately working against Christianity and compels Christians to pay taxes to support agendas which are sin. We are to obey God rather than man...a bit conscience shaking in my view. As Christians we should seek to persuade lawmakers and government representatives to act in a godly manner. To give you a better understanding of my view I will say that prohibition laws were wrong...though drinking too much is a sin...the individual is responsible to handle his/her liquor so as not to harm his neighbor...banning the liquor was too restrictive and the amendment was repealed. Government today is so big and unwieldy to act swiftly to remedy its wrongs while needing to turn on a dime.
Sorry for the jumpiness here...ready to sign off for the night.

 

[mark kennedy]

There is cut and dry Biblical law against killing a human and Scripture clearly portrays the unborn as human and assigns them the value and protection under law as humans.

Is that right? What about this?

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” (Num. 5:20-22)​

Sounds like a divinely induced abortion to me. BTW, it's customary to review the proof texts before you proclaim the uniform meaning of Scripture.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Is that right? What about this?

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” (Num. 5:20-22)​

Sounds like a divinely induced abortion to me. BTW, it's customary to review the proof texts before you proclaim the uniform meaning of Scripture.

You are citing a divine retribution for sin.

 

[mark kennedy]

You are citing a divine retribution for sin.

The curse being a miscarry, sounds like an induced abortion to me.

 

[Logic Over Emotionalism]

It is not a rape victim's fault if she gets pregnant. Rape is being forced to have sex after she tells him no. Also, too many states (including Alabama) do not have strict sex education laws. It is not the girl's fault if she has no idea contraceptives are necessary at her age.

Rape and health reasons is not only a vast minority of abortion cases; it is an extraordinarily low percentage of abortion cases. It’s an excuse that people like to use so we can take the marginal case and then say that the marginal case applies to all cases. It is faulty thinking people use at best.

 

[Logic Over Emotionalism]

The "bunch of cells" does not necessarily have to be a person just because they are human. When people hear or read the word person, do they ever think of cells that have not formed tissues and organs yet? Of course not. A bunch of human cells can be considered a future person.

Abortion does not just impact early stages of life but all stages of life. A baby in the womb has a beating heart, separate body, own DNA, brain function, sucks his/her thumb, hiccup, cries, opens eyes, feel pains, smiles, plays and new research shows that a baby is capable of dreaming. Yet people want to fight for the right for a abortionist to use a sharp pair of surgical scissors to stab the base of a living baby's skull and then when the scissors are removed, a suction tube is inserted into the skull opening to remove the brain (this kills the baby as it collapses the head). Dehumanizing people happens before you can justify murder and acts of violence as we have seen throughout history.

Science and current laws are challenging this morally corrupt practice of killing babies for the sake of convenience. Let's hope it goes back to the Supreme Court.

Science Is Giving the Pro-Life Movement a Boost

 

[Logic Over Emotionalism]

Abortion is a woman's right to choose. It is HER body.

The whole it's s woman's body argument. If you want to go get a tattoo, color your hair or whatever do it (nobody cares). But when you use your rights to infringe on another person's rights that is the issue here. The baby didn't decide to be made, the woman did when she opened her legs. If a woman does not want a unwanted child use birth control that is relatively cheap and have the man wear a condom. Sex involves personal responsibility. Abortion is not a personal individual issue that people would like you to believe.

 

[Logic Over Emotionalism]

Murder is a legal term meaning the unlawful taking of a human life. Abortion is not illegal thus not murder.

Yes cause legality has always been right morally correct? Remember blacks were considered less then human at one point in our history and even the sterilization of our own citizens took place legally. But none of these were morally correct.

That Time The United States Sterilized 60,000 Of Its Citizens | HuffPost

 

[Logic Over Emotionalism]

They are representatives all right, but do not act like it. Alabamans are actively protesting the law at their state's Capitol and elsewhere in Montgomery. The respresentation is not helping women and children.

Only women have to put up with carrying a baby for 9 months.

The whole 'since women have to carry the child so men have no say in the subject argument' is very faulty.

Using an analogy. It's sort of like, I am against the killing of the homeless people, now I am not homeless (nor in the same economic class) nor am I the one inflicting the killing. Should I have a say in this matter in protecting his life?

Or here is another, white non-holding slave owners who fought to end slavery, should they of fought as they were not slaves nor were they slave owners (or plantation owners)? Starting to see why this is a silly argument? If this is a human life, then it is something that impacts more then just the woman's personal well being.

 

[Logic Over Emotionalism]

I suspect some here will say Jesus was never a fetus to avoid some serious implications.

I think scripture can clear that up. As we see in Luke 1:41 the Bible says the word "baby" not a fetus or a subhuman.

Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Logic Over Emotionalism]

There has always been an exemption for medical issues

Medical emergencies are so rare statistically and is not the reason why so many women get abortions. It's because of convenience not rape or medical reasons.

Reasons why women have induced abortions: a synthesis of findings from 14 countries

Now what about women who die during complications? According to CDC sadly 700 women die each year during pregnancy or delivery complications. But a simple Google search you can see the birth rate in the US is nearly 4 million. So this is also extremely rare that people like to use to make the marginal cases and apply it to all cases.

Pregnancy-Related Deaths | CDC