Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

[throughfiierytrial]

Abolishing slavery wasn't the end of it, it took two amendments to the Constitution with blacks still wondering are we there yet. I agree with what you want to fight for but throwing in blindly with the GOP isn't a guarantee of much. Which laws do you think should be the test case for Roe v. Wade, because it's not a simple question.

Throwing in with any political party is not a guarantee of anything...there are two parties and politicians are corrupt sometimes. We the people, we the Christians vote for life not the party.

 

[Calminian]

Calminian, there is no truth to the idea that just because someone is pro-choice he/she is anti-religious. I know the majority of women who get abortions are Christians.

I'm not following where you thought I made that point. I believe the pro-abortion side is very religious, blind faith religious. It's the pro-life side that speaks logic and science and gets shut down.

 

[Calminian]

Throwing in with any political party is not a guarantee of anything...there are two parties and politicians are corrupt sometimes. We the people, we the Christians vote for life not the party.

Agreed. We vote for the party that can potentially deliver on major issues like this. In this instance, most of us voted Trump and were not disappointed. He's turned out to be the most pro-life president in history according to many pro-life groups, March for Life, Concerned Women for America, Operation Rescue.

Forget party. It matters who we vote not how we register. The irony is, if the Church was unified on this issue, abortion would not be legal today in the united states. We have some serious voting power if we ever determined to get this done. That's why I believe God will judge the church in America first, if and when he determines enough is enough.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I'm not following where you thought I made that point. I believe the pro-abortion side is very religious, blind faith religious. It's the pro-life side that speaks logic and science and gets shut down.

This post:

You mean throwing in with the party that is pro-life and pro-religious liberty, versus throwing with the party that is pro-abortion, and anti-religious liberty. What damages are you anticipating by voting with the GOP? What personal losses are you concerned about? Or what national losses are you concerned about?

Is it an identity thing? Would you be ostracized?

What am I missing here? "Pro-abortion" followed by "anti-religious" is not accurate.

BTW I vote for the Democrats every time if I am not familiar with the candidates.

 

[Calminian]

This post:


What am I missing here? "Pro-abortion" followed by "anti-religious" is not accurate.

BTW I vote for the Democrats every time if I am not familiar with the candidates.

I don't know. Religious liberty is something the left opposes, even the religious left. Does that clear it up for you?

 

[GodLovesCats]

I don't know. Religious liberty is something the left opposes, even the religious left. Does that clear it up for you?

Are you limiting religious liberty to the abortion issue? In threads about other topics, you might find there are religious people on the left who care more than people on the right about solving other problems. But I will not get into that here.

 

[Calminian]

Are you limiting religious liberty to the abortion issue?

No. In fact, I wouldn't characterize the abortion issue as particularly religious, anymore than the holocaust or slavery. It's certainly a moral issue, but not religious per se. It's an issue of common sense and even science as well, whether the child is a separate human being from the mother. I could make biblical arguments as well, since Christ is called a child while in the womb (Luke 2:5). But even this isn't within the realm of religious liberty to which I was referring.

Religious liberty has more to do with forcing people to ignore their religious convictions and participate in things they disagree with. Medical workers forced to participate in abortions for example. Catholics orgs. forced to provide contraception. Christians forced to create transgender cakes. etc.

In threads about other topics, you might find there are religious people on the left who care more than people on the right about solving other problems. But I will not get into that here.

Well I may or may not. I suppose it depends on the issue.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Catholics think contraception is a sin? No, it most certainly is not, if you exclude Plan B and similar drugs.

 

[Calminian]

Catholics think contraception is a sin? No, it most certainly is not, if you exclude Plan B and similar drugs.

Yes, they do. I don't, but I want to respect people's religious convictions.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Yes, they do. I don't, but I want to respect people's religious convictions.

I wonder why. Contraception is not abortion.

 

[Calminian]

I wonder why. Contraception is not abortion.

I agree. They don't equate it to abortion either, though.

 

[hedrick]

Catholics think contraception is a sin? No, it most certainly is not, if you exclude Plan B and similar drugs.

"Humanae vitae" is still in effect. It classifies as all artificial birth control (i.e. things other than systems involving abstinence) as wrong. Most Catholics in the US ignore this, and even the Pope has at times downplayed it, but I'm reasonably certain it's still the official position.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If the Pope does it, I would say iti s not a sin.

 

[Calminian]

If the Pope does it, I would say iti s not a sin.

If the Pope is utilizing birth control, I'd say he's probably breaking some rules.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If the Pope is utilizing birth control, I'd say he's probably breaking some rules.

Does this have any Biblical support?

 

[Calminian]

Does this have any Biblical support?

No, I'm merely speaking from the standpoint of catholic theology and the idea that the Pope is required to be celibate. Why would a celibate man need birth control for himself or anyone else? It was tongue n cheek actually.

 

[GodLovesCats]

No, I'm merely speaking from the standpoint of catholic theology and the idea that the Pope should be celibate. Why would a celibate man need birth control for himself or anyone else?

Better safe than sorry, I guess.

 

[mark kennedy]

You mean throwing in with the party that is pro-life and pro-religious liberty, versus throwing with the party that is pro-abortion, and anti-religious liberty. What damages are you anticipating by voting with the GOP? What personal losses are you concerned about? Or what national losses are you concerned about?

Is it an identity thing? Would you be ostracized?

Ostracized? The only one doing that is you. I was willing to turn the other check when you started flaming me over creationism, I just assumed you didn't understand Genesis 1 never describes creation after verse 1 except with regards to the creation of life. Now this, the prolife movement is at an historical moment where their decades of effort can yield changes in long standing precedence, and you are oblivious. I finally remember why I shunned these discussions for so long, it's because the prolife crowd was an embarrassment. Screaming don't murder your baby, bombings, shootings at abortion clinics, seeing pictures of aborted fetuses at the cafeteria of my school being distributed. I know now why we lost the culture war in such dramatic fashion, it's because we deserved to.

What am I afraid of the GOP doing, deregulation, unfunded tax cuts and the economy driving off a cliff as it did with Reagan and George W. Bush or the disastrous policies of the largely Republican politics leading to the Great Depression. Protectionism doesn't work nor does isolationism, that's what I fear, bad public policy. I am not nor will I ever be liberal, I have always been prolife and will remain so. We should be in prayer about this historic moment working to forge a moral consensus not politicizing the courts.

I'm a moderate, a Reformed Evangelical who sees the sermon of Johnathan Edwards, 'Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God' as the spark that turned to world upside down. I've had quite enough of this, I've bent over backwards to try to make peace with you and you will have none of it. Welcome to my ignore list, it's long over due.

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

Throwing in with any political party is not a guarantee of anything...there are two parties and politicians are corrupt sometimes. We the people, we the Christians vote for life not the party.

The abortion issues was highly persuasive for me with Donald Trump, that and illegal immigration had been ready to vote for him at one point. I have longed to see a conservative majority on the Supreme Court but I am far from convinced that they are ready to over turn Roe V. Wade. I don't really see how they go from third trimester abortions to 6 weeks, it's unrealistic at best.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The abortion issues was highly persuasive for me with Donald Trump, that and illegal immigration had been ready to vote for him at one point. I have longed to see a conservative majority on the Supreme Court but I am far from convinced that they are ready to over turn Roe V. Wade. I don't really see how they go from third trimester abortions to 6 weeks, it's unrealistic at best.

So heck, vote for a Dem and that will work out much better?