Mainline Protestant and Evangelical denominations both declining, how do we change that?

Raphael Jauregui said:

It is an oft discussed subject that mainline Protestant denominations are declining and losing members. Evangelical denominations are also declining in recent years.

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In days gone by, people had to go to church to listen to someone educated at a seminary. These days their writings and videos are indexed in Google and YouTube. There is a church attendance expense that some estimate to be 10% of family income. The average amount donated/offered in churches I observed was less than 10%. One non-denominational church I visited was months behind on their mortgage payments. They had several buildings on their campus and more parking spaces than they could use. There are storefront churches having difficulties as there are dozens of churches competing with them in the same town. Some non-denominational preachers have to work jobs in addition to preaching twice a week as the congregation cannot pay them a full salary.

Where I lived before, my neighbor attended a large non-denominational church. The church started by renting a high school band room on Sundays. Their congregation grew. A church near them went out of business and listed the building for sale. They bought it. They had several services on Sunday and during the week. They had volunteers directing people to park on the grass after the black top spaces were taken.

I dated a woman who attended a Methodist church. The pastor was not a violent or lawless man. Their church grew in a large building until they were asked to help start up a new church in a town to the north of them. One of their pastors was supposed to go to the new Methodist church. In a city to the south of them a Methodist church congregation was constantly fighting among themselves. Church authorities decided they would have to close the church.

Paidiske said:

I could make some educated guesses, but that's all they would be; certainly not definitive answers.

- Singing the psalms is something that has to be learned and taught, and we have, on the whole, moved towards making our liturgy easier for beginners to participate in.
- The decline of church choirs. Where once every parish worth the name boasted a choir which rehearsed and could lead the congregation in something like this, now (at least where I am) that's the exception rather than the rule. Without the choir there is a crisis of confidence in this.
- The decline of chanting in general. We do not (except for a very few parishes) expect our clergy to be able to chant (although in many parishes if we can it is welcome), nor are we properly taught to do so. I learned only because I had a supervising priest who insisted, but many of my colleagues have never had the opportunity. So - if you have a priest who does not know how to lead, and no choir, and little musical expertise, then it is easier to read without singing...

That's speaking particularly from an Anglican perspective, but I suspect similar trends are at work in other Western traditions.

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We do sing a psalm each Sunday in our ELCA service.

Raphael Jauregui said:

It is an oft discussed subject that mainline Protestant denominations are declining and losing members. Evangelical denominations are also declining in recent years. The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest evangelical denomination in the United States with 15 million members, is declining similarly as the largest mainline Protestant denomination in the US, the United Methodist Church with 7.2 million members.

The Southern Baptist Convention lost 1 million members.
https://baptistnews.com/article/southern-baptists-lost-million-members-10-years/#.WUg5mLSJmlI

The United Methodist Church, in the US, has also lost members. In 2011, the UMC lost 72,000 members.
2011 numbers show U.S. members still sliding - The United Methodist Church

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"Christianity has thus passed through many stages of its earthly life, and yet has hardly reached the period of full manhood in Christ Jesus. During this long succession of centuries it has outlived the destruction of Jerusalem, the dissolution of the Roman empire, fierce persecutions from without, and heretical corruptions from within, the barbarian invasion, the confusion of the dark ages, the papal tyranny, the shock of infidelity, the ravages of revolution, the attacks of enemies and the errors of friends, the rise and fall of proud kingdoms, empires, and republics, philosophical systems, and social organizations without number.

And, behold, it still lives, and lives in greater strength and wider extent than ever; controlling the progress of civilization, and the destinies of the world; marching of the ruins of human wisdom and folly, ever forward and onward; spreading silently its heavenly blessings from generation to generation, and from country to country, to the ends of the earth. It can never die; it will never see the decrepitude of old age; but, like its divine founder, it will live in the unfading freshness of self-renewing youth and the unbroken vigor of manhood to the end of time, and will outlive time itself.

Single denominations and sects, human forms of doctrine, government, and worship, after having served their purpose, may disappear and go the way of all flesh; but the Church Universal of Christ, in her divine life and substance, is too strong for the gates of hell. She will only exchange her earthly garments for the festal dress of the Lamb's Bride, and rise from the state of humiliation to the state of exaltation and glory. Then at the coming of Christ she will reap the final harvest of history, and as the church triumphant in heaven celebrate and enjoy the eternal sabbath of holiness and peace. This will be the endless end of history, as it was foreshadowed already at the beginning of its course in the holy rest of God after the completion of his work of creation."

- Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church

There are some very informative and interesting posts on here! I have to say, while it is good to keep up with the times, the message does not change. I am 100% for singing new songs with old ones, preaching relevant messages, etc...but not at the cost of cutting short the Gospel. I know some of the most full churches in my area are those that really don't believe much of anything, watered down religion if you will; not sure if this trend holds true in the USA. I know many places won't even speak of the cross because they view it as too "graphic". As long as we hold true to the message, "God will give the increase", we do our part, He does His God Bless.

mark kennedy said:

I found a survey a couple of years ago that listed the top ten reasons for the decline, number one was religion had become irrelevant to them. There's a pretty long running survey on creationism, it had fluctuated between 44% and 42% over years, it's now dipped down the 38%. Churches more and more have accepted gay marriage and soft peddled the gospel for generations. With resources more available then ever Bible illiteracy continues to climb.

What do we do? What the church has always done, return to the simplicity of the gospel.

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So keep making a stink about gay marriage, and call that the gospel? That's your solution?
Aside from the entire debate on whether gay marriage is ok or not, it's a completely different topic.

I know of a ton of Home Churches that would return to main Churches, if they forever get rid of female trappings and made them more man friendly. A larger population then you think are allergic to Poinsettias, Easter Lillie's and other such weeds they put in those buildings. IF they want to grow, get rid of suits and go out into the neighborhoods to serve your neighbors.

Raphael Jauregui said:

It is an oft discussed subject that mainline Protestant denominations are declining and losing members. Evangelical denominations are also declining in recent years. The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest evangelical denomination in the United States with 15 million members, is declining similarly as the largest mainline Protestant denomination in the US, the United Methodist Church with 7.2 million members.

The Southern Baptist Convention lost 1 million members.
https://baptistnews.com/article/southern-baptists-lost-million-members-10-years/#.WUg5mLSJmlI

The United Methodist Church, in the US, has also lost members. In 2011, the UMC lost 72,000 members.
2011 numbers show U.S. members still sliding - The United Methodist Church

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I can't say why the methodist membership is declining. But for the baptist I have anecdotal evidence and just more insight being in the south here in Houston Texas and hearing what people say about the baptist church. It doesn't help that mega churches full of false doctrine (Joel Osteen church/church without walls) that say they are baptist/baptist esc are in the city either. It's simply because the reputation of the baptist church recently has been less than what it used to be for various reasons. There's also been a decrease in the Lutheran church.

THere's been an increase in the mean time with other bodies such as pentecostal/apostolic, and non denominational churches that are blowing up here in the South and based off reports just in general. Non denominational is similar to baptist in beliefs in a lot of cases but the difference is the reputation is better and it's having success.


How to change this for the southern baptist churches (this list doesn't apply to all baptist churches though)

• Stop quenching or diminishing the importance of the holy spirit and the gifts that come with the spirit. People would feel the power of God and see results of being saved if this was a focus.
• Maybe work on a consistency among the churches in regards to doctrine to rebuild the rep.
• Ensure the members are saved and living right, one major complaint you hear from atheist just in general with churches is members being hypocritical. And recently this has been seen a lot in certain churches more so than others in the South such as the ones listed in the OP.
• Deal with this whole "money taking issue" or the ask for 1,000 bucks for this or pastor use money for this issue. It's a problem in many main churches now and i've had friends who have left the baptist church becuase of catching their pastor using the money for something else.

In the end people can be saved at any church....the environment and doctrine and leaders just has to be right and I feel with that focus in mind the baptist church can rise back up in the South. IDK if it will ever be the forefront again but yeah.

pescador said:

They're not dead. Drive around on Sunday morning and see how many church parking lots are empty. Very few!

Do you really think that the church will thrive by insulting people? Jesus took on the self-righteous and critical Pharisees and loved sinners. We should do the same.

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I think they means dead spiritually could be wrong though

Raphael Jauregui said:

It is an oft discussed subject that mainline Protestant denominations are declining and losing members. Evangelical denominations are also declining in recent years. The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest evangelical denomination in the United States with 15 million members, is declining similarly as the largest mainline Protestant denomination in the US, the United Methodist Church with 7.2 million members.

The Southern Baptist Convention lost 1 million members.
https://baptistnews.com/article/southern-baptists-lost-million-members-10-years/#.WUg5mLSJmlI

The United Methodist Church, in the US, has also lost members. In 2011, the UMC lost 72,000 members.
2011 numbers show U.S. members still sliding - The United Methodist Church

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The bible talks about the great apostasy, or the falling away. What many of us have been taught is this is people leaving the church organization. But I believe scripture tells us it is the opposite. It is mainline leaving sound doctrine. Many are tired of false teachings, hirelings, and compromised gospels. The Lord is leading many to the desert in these days. Want to change it, hold leadership accountable. Unfortuneatley, when push comes to shove, many are afraid to confront false teaching, bad leadership. There is a cost to doing it, count the cost and decide which side you will stand on, the Lord's or man's.

2Timothy2:15 said:

The bible talks about the great apostasy, or the falling away. What many of us have been taught is this is people leaving the church organization. But I believe scripture tells us it is the opposite. It is mainline leaving sound doctrine. Many are tired of false teachings, hirelings, and compromised gospels. The Lord is leading many to the desert in these days. Want to change it, hold leadership accountable.

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Why are the Baptists in decline?

Raphael Jauregui said:

It is an oft discussed subject that mainline Protestant denominations are declining and losing members. Evangelical denominations are also declining in recent years. The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest evangelical denomination in the United States with 15 million members, is declining similarly as the largest mainline Protestant denomination in the US, the United Methodist Church with 7.2 million members.

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Matthew 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

There have always been "tares" in the Church. Thanks to the seeker-sensitive approach to Church life, their numbers have swelled within the evangelical Protestant Church over the last thirty-some years. This has been accomplished by much compromise on the part of the Church. It has had to become very worldly, very sensual and entertainment-oriented, in order to attract large numbers of people (aka "seekers") and has had to avoid preaching anything but the most superficial, and innocuous, and juvenile truths of the faith. In these compromised, spiritually-immature churches, Jesus has become a watery, panty-waisted, liberal fop who just wants to hold you in his arms and snuggle you. Any spiritual gravitas the Church may have had, any potency its message of redemption from sin may have possessed, any distinctiveness from the World it may have boasted of has been given up in obedience to the belief that "bigger is better." And now, after the Church has grown weak, and corrupt, and foolish, the tares are, not surprisingly, losing interest in it. Who wants to be associated with the increasingly grotesque, and cartoonish, and spiritually-impotent entity the compromised Church has become?

But this is good news for the Church. As the tares jump ship and depart the Church, the Church can recognize its own corruption and compromise, repent, and return to a healthier, more biblical, more truly God-honoring condition. Oh, some of the churches that have over-extended their infrastructure may go bankrupt and have to take up residence in a school gym or community center, but the business-model pursuit of bigger and better and the worldliness it invites will have been abandoned. This is a good thing. The truth is that the Church is the home of those few who have found the "narrow way." The mega-churches of Joel Osteen and Andy Stanley are illusions, populated mainly by tares who "have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof" and "who honor God with their lips but their hearts are far from Him." No, the true Church has never been industry-sized, it has never been more than a few. And when the evangelical Protestant Church, depleted, overextended and weak after having denied this reality for decades, finally realizes how far it has drifted from what it should be and how destructive to its existence the drift has been, then it will be in a place where God can heal it and make it strong again.

Selah.

Eryk said:

Why are the Baptists in decline?

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Same reason all others are, read what I wrote already.

PhantomGaze said:

So keep making a stink about gay marriage, and call that the gospel? That's your solution?
Aside from the entire debate on whether gay marriage is ok or not, it's a completely different topic.

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It would be a different topic if it wasn't increasingly acceptable in the churches. Sexual immorality is spiritual poison, that's how churches become irrelavent, no moral standards.

Raphael Jauregui said:

It is an oft discussed subject that mainline Protestant denominations are declining and losing members. Evangelical denominations are also declining in recent years. The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest evangelical denomination in the United States with 15 million members, is declining similarly as the largest mainline Protestant denomination in the US, the United Methodist Church with 7.2 million members.

The Southern Baptist Convention lost 1 million members.
https://baptistnews.com/article/southern-baptists-lost-million-members-10-years/#.WUg5mLSJmlI

The United Methodist Church, in the US, has also lost members. In 2011, the UMC lost 72,000 members.
2011 numbers show U.S. members still sliding - The United Methodist Church

Click to expand...

With my experience with churches, it's because they don't know what their talking about, they like to condemn people with sins different than theirs, like gay people, abortion, but they don't talk about the people in the church who divorce and molest their children.
If I could find a pastor that knew what they were talking about I'd go to that church.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
Jeremiah chapter 9
24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.
Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.

Bonhoeffer lived through the death of real Christianity in Germany, and he was not impressed with what he saw in America, for the most part. We have been living in a post-Christendom world for some time, it's just American evangelicalism has been on life support and they haven't even known it. Conservative evangelical churches rode a wave of cultural conservativism that has ended in the late 90's with a shift in politics and outlook in the US.

Pentecostalism in some cases is not even Christian, being more like a smorgasbord of Oneness theology, Transcendentalism and New Thought. I would not use it in an unqualified way as an example for Christians to follow. Clearly, it has been successful because people are prone now days to be experience-seekers and are primed to not be very critical thinkers in matters of faith or spirituality. Compared to the mainline churches and their rich intellectual traditions, that is a tragedy.

Ultimately, what's needed is faithfulness to Scripture and orthodoxy. If a church is faithful, it may or may not see an increase in membership. That shouldn't be the focus.
The mainline church PC(USA) church that I attended focused on a new sign, special worship services, and outreach ministries as ways to attract new members. At the same time, the church had a visiting minister call the parting of the Red Sea an embellishment. A book was used for a Sunday School class study which questioned the Virgin Birth. Unless these and other elephants in room are addressed, church growth strategies proceed on a foundation of sand.

FireDragon76 said:

Bonhoeffer lived through the death of real Christianity in Germany, and he was not impressed with what he saw in America, for the most part. We have been living in a post-Christendom world for some time, it's just American evangelicalism has been on life support and they haven't even known it. Conservative evangelical churches rode a wave of cultural conservativism that has ended in the late 90's with a shift in politics and outlook in the US.

Pentecostalism in some cases is not even Christian, being more like a smorgasbord of Oneness theology, Transcendentalism and New Thought. I would not use it in an unqualified way as an example for Christians to follow. Clearly, it has been successful because people are prone now days to be experience-seekers and are primed to not be very critical thinkers in matters of faith or spirituality. Compared to the mainline churches and their rich intellectual traditions, that is a tragedy.

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I feel this is part of the problem....faiths try to compete with each other and some even put others down but that's not the point of christianity and that's not going to keep people from leaving the Lutheran church here in the South.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:

I feel this is part of the problem....faiths try to compete with each other and some even put others down but that's not the point of christianity and that's not going to keep people from leaving the Lutheran church here in the South.

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What's Lutheranism got to do with the discussion?

My point is that this is not a new trend, it's been happening for decades, and it will resist easy fixes such as traditional liturgy or an emphasis on perceived orthodoxy. I don't even think it necessarily needs to be fixed.

FireDragon76 said:

What's Lutheranism got to do with the discussion?

My point is that this is not a new trend, it's been happening for decades, and it will resist easy fixes such as traditional liturgy or an emphasis on perceived orthodoxy.

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It has just as little to do with the discussion as pentecostalism lol? In all seriousness though both have a lot to do with this even if not mentioned in the OP. Lutheranism is decreasing so you can throw that in with baptist/methodist.

But since pentecostalism isn't in the OP not sure why lutheranism wouldn't be just as topical since it's not in it either.