- Nov 16, 2016
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Is there anything to say? Sorry about the very, very broad topic here.
Is there anything to say? Sorry about the very, very broad topic here.
You mean the kids who have depression don't come, or the parents don't come?I don't think Lutheranism has the detailed psychological understanding of Eastern Orthodoxy, necessarily. Most Lutherans I know would say "Go to a doctor/therapist", etc. But I'll try to research this topic more.
One thing I see that isn't helpful is that alot of folks at our church who have kids that struggle with depression, and they just don't come to church. We aren't into arm twisting, but people that actually cut themselves off socially like this ultimately are engaging in self-defeating behaviors, because we know from sociological studies that in cultures where people do not respond to personal difficulties and stress with withdrawl, experience less personal subjective depression.
Is there anything to say? Sorry about the very, very broad topic here.
I don't normally like to talk about this but I was depressed for many years. I was even admitted to a state psych hospital for a period of time. One day near the end of my stay, a therapist came to me and pulled me off to the side. She said that because this was a state-sponsored hospital that no one on staff was allowed to talk about spiritual things to patients. She told me on the 'sly' to seek out a Lutheran Church and see if they might see me healed. I never did check on it. I wished I had but I indeed did get healed some years later and as it turned out, it was spiritual oppression. So the last line of your post brought back to me a good memory. Thanks.I don't know that there would be anything characteristically Lutheran about treating depression ... unless it relates to my frequent use of the phrase, "Lutheranism is an earthy view of religion." What I mean is that Lutherans (at least those I know) have no opposition to seeking the help of a trained psychologist. At the same time, they don't want that psychologist to dismiss the possibility of some kind of spiritual oppression.
I don't normally like to talk about this but I was depressed for many years. I was even admitted to a state psych hospital for a period of time. One day near the end of my stay, a therapist came to me and pulled me off to the side. She said that because this was a state-sponsored hospital that no one on staff was allowed to talk about spiritual things to patients. She told me on the 'sly' to seek out a Lutheran Church and see if they might see me healed. I never did check on it. I wished I had but I indeed did get healed some years later and as it turned out, it was spiritual oppression. So the last line of your post brought back to me a good memory. Thanks.
You mean the kids who have depression don't come, or the parents don't come?
Of course, it's pretty common to hear "hey, go to a doctor" anywhere, I think even in (US) Orthodoxy. And I have had trouble accessing the EO psychological understandingI don't know what gave me the idea that Lutherans might have some special take. Maybe it was a glitch of memory or something. But thanks, if you think of anything. Don't go to any special trouble.
I don't think Lutheranism has the detailed psychological understanding of Eastern Orthodoxy, necessarily. Most Lutherans I know would say "Go to a doctor/therapist", etc. But I'll try to research this topic more.
One thing I see that isn't helpful is that alot of folks at our church who have kids that struggle with depression, and they just don't come to church. We aren't into arm twisting, but people that actually cut themselves off socially like this ultimately are engaging in self-defeating behaviors, because we know from sociological studies that in cultures where people do not respond to personal difficulties and stress with withdrawl, experience less personal subjective depression.
As someone who struggles with depression, and frequently does withdraw socially (I miss church far more frequently than I'd like to admit), I would agree that withdrawing doesn't help. At least personally that's my experience.
I take medication to help mitigate my depression and anxiety, which largely means that I can get out of bed and don't feel utterly destroyed most days; but it doesn't "fix" everything. I will be talking with a therapist sometime in the near future, I've been on a waiting list for several months, because the local clinic has been transitioning patients from one therapist who is moving to a new incoming therapist.
I also know that making it to church does help. I can feel it when I have missed church for too long, it's like an aching in my soul (if that makes any sense).
I will say something that has already been said here in the OP, that is, the Lutherans will said that the person shoud "seek help with trained psychologists and psychiatrists."Is there anything to say? Sorry about the very, very broad topic here.
I also used to spiritualize the symptoms and problems, especially before their being diagnosed.Sometimes people overspiritualize or over-psychologize their problems, too. I used to have alot of fatigue and low mood and something like cognitive decline (I forgot everything) even after all the therapy and acupuncture, until a doctor ran a thorough series of tests and found I had vitamin D deficiency.
Another thing to watch out for are minerals like magnesium. Most peoples diets don't have enough of it, and if you don't get enough, your brain won't work right. The same is true with B-12, some people don't absorb it well at all, and if you don't get it, you'll feel like crap mentally and won't be able to think well at all.
I also used to spiritualize the symptoms and problems, especially before their being diagnosed.
True, lack of some vitamins can lead to depression, some vitamins are essential in the production of serotonin, but as you said, the people don't always consider. Maybe because vitamin deficiency may not be the first thing anyone thinks about when considering the causes of depression.My doctor gave me these Vitamin D pills to take every week and it was like flipping a light switch. I thought because I lived in Florida and went out in the sun sometimes I could not be deficient, but that isn't the case necessarily. So there are alot of ordinary things that can cause depression that people don't always consider.
I have a normal diet, or reasonably normal. I have had tests for the various possible deficiencies and was ok except for D, for which I take a supplement.Sometimes people overspiritualize or over-psychologize their problems, too. I used to have alot of fatigue and low mood and something like cognitive decline (I forgot everything) even after all the therapy and acupuncture, until a doctor ran a thorough series of tests and found I had vitamin D deficiency.
Another thing to watch out for are minerals like magnesium. Most peoples diets don't have enough of it, and if you don't get enough, your brain won't work right. The same is true with B-12, some people don't absorb it well at all, and if you don't get it, you'll feel like crap mentally and won't be able to think well at all. In severe cases it can even cause nerve damage.
I have a normal diet, or reasonably normal. I have had tests for the various possible deficiencies and was ok except for D, for which I take a supplement.
I have been treated for depression for (literally) decades now, in various ways, by various people, and I asked here because my own confession tends to tell people either to go to a doctor (quite reasonable, but I already have done so countless times) or to seek spiritual counsel to get at the riches of EO..."spiritual psychology" but I have had trouble accessing any of that. "Ask your priest" is the order of the day, and again, I see why, but I have had difficulty making myself understood or getting more than a very hesitant reply. I suppose my difficulties are not to be taken from me and I should just go on but I thought I would explain myself a bit.
I do use the Jesus Prayer and silent prayer at my SF's recommendation. My prayer practice does help me, I believe, but the help seems limited.Has your priest talked about praying the Jesus Prayer? Some kind of mindfulness practice is very helpful for depression, in my experience, its one thing I remember reading in one of the books my therapist gave me years ago. My own church has a class on contemplative prayer that we are working through. Also, using a prayer rope or prayer beads provides kinesthetic feedback that can be useful for grounding oneself and staying present.
This book might be worth looking into. It was suggested to me by my therapist years ago. It's about one of the approaches she used. Dr. Daniel Siegel has a background in Zen meditation, but the approach is really not religious in nature:
https://www.amazon.com/Mindsight-New-Science-Personal-Transformation/dp/0553386395
What has helped me really as a Lutheran, frankly, is getting the idea of a Last Judgement out of my head, and to focus instead on Jesus accepting me now (after all, living in the present is so much easier). It made me more than a little scrupulous, to be honest, to focus on whether my good works were good enough, and it puts Jesus is the wrong position spiritually. To be frank, that was not a helpful part of Orthodox spirituality for me, and it's one area I am glad is not emphasized in Lutheranism. If you have any kind of mental problem, Orthodox spirituality needs to be handled with care.