Lusting

[Bookofknowledge]

Um... what?

Obedience.

Obeying The God.

Obedience to The God that has revealed in The Qur'aan withregards to dress code.

 

[evange]

Obedience.

Obeying The God.

Obedience to The God that has revealed in The Qur'aan withregards to dress code.

But if "allah" gave us that specific dress code to stop men from lusting, then we'd have to assume that there is only one way to be modest, the way perscribed in the koran. But modesty is culturally relative, thus what the koran perscribes is not universally aplicable.

 

[Montalban]

It doesn't. Athra usually defends Islam by pointing out faults in other cultures. Can't blame him; Islam is a hard religion to defend.

To defend it, one has to suspend the mind and simply submit

 

[evange]

To defend it, one has to suspend the mind and simply submit

so do you think that logical thought can be considered sinful in islam because it is wrong to do anything other than submit without question?

What do the muslims think about this?

 

[peaceful soul]

so do you think that logical thought can be considered sinful in islam because it is wrong to do anything other than submit without question?

What do the muslims think about this?

Funny you mention this. Since when did God tell us not to think and question things - especially things He has supposedly revealed to us? We are not suppose to test things? If anything was to be heavily scrutinized, it would be a supposed revelation from God; for it determines our eternity. It appears that Muslims do think that way; else, they would not just react to the Qu'ran as they do.

 

[Montalban]

so do you think that logical thought can be considered sinful in islam because it is wrong to do anything other than submit without question?

I'm basing this on the 'let's have every argument at once' style.

What do the muslims think about this?

In light of the topic at hand (i.e. non-thinking), that would be a redundant question

 

[evange]

In light of the topic at hand (i.e. non-thinking), that would be a redundant question

Lol, I didn't realize. So let me rephrase:

What do muslims have to say about this?

 

[Montalban]

But if "allah" gave us that specific dress code to stop men from lusting, then we'd have to assume that there is only one way to be modest, the way perscribed in the koran. But modesty is culturally relative, thus what the koran perscribes is not universally aplicable.

And also if this really is from al-lah then he believes men can't control their lusts - and if this is so, there'd be 1,000s of rapes by Muslim men in western nations where there's more temptations.

And this doesn't happen. (No Moslem is willing to challenge me on that )

So al-lah sells men short.

 

[Vaneeza Malkah]

I think the topic in question is invalid as lust does not equal more rapes. Yes it's more likely for a man to lust over a woman scantily clad than over a woman who is covered, plain and simple. The rape analogy is not a good one. This is not a topic non-existant in judaism or christianity and the conclusion regaurding attire and lust is essentially the same in islam and christianity. King David committed murder because of his lust, so I find the quran quite reasonable in this respect.

 

[Montalban]

I think the topic in question is invalid as lust does not equal more rapes. Yes it's more likely for a man to lust over a woman scantily clad than over a woman who is covered, plain and simple. The rape analogy is not a good one. This is not a topic non-existant in judaism or christianity and the conclusion regaurding attire and lust is essentially the same in islam and christianity. King David committed murder because of his lust, so I find the quran quite reasonable in this respect.

Then why aren't Muslim men assaulting more women in the west? They should be - if al-lah is to be believed - unable to control their desires.

Also, Islam assumes that men have stronger sexual desires than do women. It's quite sexist on that account too.

 

[msindiausa]

Then why aren't Muslim men assaulting more women in the west? They should be - if al-lah is to be believed - unable to control their desires.

Also, Islam assumes that men have stronger sexual desires than do women. It's quite sexist on that account too.

Because unlike in Muslim countries, men who rape women in the west are considered evil. That is why they control their lust in our countries.

And yes, women mos def have sexual desires. I guess all mighty Allah forgot that when he revealled the koran to Mohammed.

 

[Montalban]

Because unlike in Muslim countries, men who rape women in the west are considered evil. That is why they control their lust in our countries.

Yes there's countless examples from Pakistan and other great Islamic nations where women who are raped have a difficult time getting convictions - she needs 4 witnesses according to some experts in Islamic law

And yes, women mos def have sexual desires. I guess all mighty Allah forgot that when he revealled the koran to Mohammed.

Much of the idea of sex in Islam is about women serving the needs of men.
"The prophet of Allah said: When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire, let her come to him though she is occupied at the oven." (Mishkat al-Masabih, English translation, Book I, Section 'Duties of husband and wife', Hadith No. 61)

 

[Doctrine1st]

So basically there are some areas in Islam that have not quite evolved like Judeo-Christianity; who used to have the same laws and cultural inequities.

 

[msindiausa]

So basically there are some areas in Islam that have not quite evolved like Judeo-Christianity; who used to have the same laws and cultural inequities.

Same laws? Really?

 

[Montalban]

So basically there are some areas in Islam that have not quite evolved like Judeo-Christianity; who used to have the same laws and cultural inequities.

Really? Where did Jesus teach to fight non-believers and slay idolators?

Where did Jesus teach it was okay to have sex with children?

Where did Jesus demand that women obey the sexual appetites of their husbands, and also say that hell is over-populated by women?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Doctrine1st]

Really? Where did Jesus teach to fight non-believers and slay idolators?

Where did Jesus teach it was okay to have sex with children?

Where did Jesus demand that women obey the sexual appetites of their husbands, and also say that hell is over-populated by women?

Thanks in advance.

Read the OT specially Numbers 31. There are many cases where God tells his followers to smite many unbelievers. In addition it's full of misoginist treatment of women. So one more time, they used to treat women basically the same, some segments of religion have evolved, and everytime you see some that haven't, it's usually fortified by holding up some book with antiquated teachings. Why is that?

 

[evange]

So basically there are some areas in Islam that have not quite evolved like Judeo-Christianity; who used to have the same laws and cultural inequities.

islamic culture has not progressed because the koran is stoping it.

Judeo-Christian has progressed, becuase the sciptures have allowed (and possibly encouraged) it to.

The koran limits culture, whereas culture is the only limit on the Bible.

 

[Montalban]

Read the OT specially Numbers 31. There are many cases where God tells his followers to smite many unbelievers. In addition it's full of misoginist treatment of women. So one more time, they used to treat women basically the same, some segments of religion have evolved, and everytime you see some that haven't, it's usually fortified by holding up some book with antiquated teachings. Why is that?

I asked you where did Jesus teach these things.

Get back to me when you can answer the question I ask, not one you think I've asked.

 

[Montalban]

islamic culture has not progressed because the koran is stoping it.

Judeo-Christian has progressed, becuase the sciptures have allowed (and possibly encouraged) it to.

The koran limits culture, whereas culture is the only limit on the Bible.

It's amazing so many people quote from the OT as if it's an example for all time.

I eat pork and don't keep slaves, so the OT is not my benchmark for what I should or shouldn't do.

 

[Doctrine1st]

I asked you where did Jesus teach these things.

Get back to me when you can answer the question I ask, not one you think I've asked.

I have always been told that there is a trinity.

Where the Father, Jesus, and the HS, are all one God. Where Jesus existed from the start with God as God. So if God is teaching to smite non followers, then Jesus is teaching these same things. They are after all one God.