Lusting

[Montalban]

thanks montalban

No problemo for me. Now tell me why Muslim men arne't going nuts in the west and raping women, as there's far more temptation

 

[muslim_convert]

Montalban,

You just follow trends and are totally blinded by hate to receive any true guidance or appreciate the wisdom of Islam.

the hate, deceit and blasphemy that i've encountered from you says a lot more about the true source of your inspiration...and its not Jesus (Allah's blessing be upon him). This is Jesus:

"O jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the falsehoods] of those who blaspheme. i will make those who follow you superiour to those who reject faith until the Day of Resurrection, then you will all be returned to Me and i will judge between you in the matters wherein you differ" [Qur'an 3:55]

May Allah make us all true followers of Jesus

salaams

 

[peaceful soul]

we are perfectly human.

and you fail to consider that it is not just womman but men as well who are required to cover.

And we both have to cover for the sake of Allah! we trust in His wisdom and guidance, and certainly not yours.

salaams

You still fail to see the problem. Women are given more emphasis than men. It can be seen easily. That alone requires a question: why? The answer that you are most likely going to give is along the lines that Allah told us so. That still does not answer the question. It only shows that you do not question Allah. Why would women be told to guard themselves if there wasn't a problem to begin with? Men are not told to cover up like women. Allah does not tell men to cover up so that women won't be tempted too!

You say that you cover up due to Allah's wisdom and not mine. It is my wisdom that you simply don't really think about the questions that we ask simply because in the end, you have to do what Allah says or else you loose favor with him. At some point, you have to question why things are the way they are and see beyond the mundane. If I did not question God, I would think of myself as an insane person for tossing aside my human logic as flawed as it can be in light of God. You trust Allah's wisdom but do not trust your own sense to punder over what you are being asked to perform. That, IMO, is quite shorsighted. These are just observations from the outside looking in. Don't get offended.

I do not know why you would still say that we are perfect humans in regards to the fact that we have rules to follow.That is a bit illogical to conclude, don't you think? Or do you have a different definition of perfect than I do? A perfect man has no need to be bounded. He is truly free from sin eternally - not on some occasion as Islam says.

 

[Montalban]

Montalban,

You just follow trends and are totally blinded by hate to receive any true guidance or appreciate the wisdom of Islam.

I thought you might attempt to answer the question, but alas, alas.

Shall we now all go off on a tangent and examine Christian scriptures again?

This is why I think it's a lose-lose situation for Islam.

Your all-knowing god has decreed that women should be more covered up by men; to protect men from their lustful ways. Moslem men in the west are exposed daily to such temptations and don't act on it; commendable for them, but showing that allah didn't give them any credit; OR could it be because Muhammed simply thought local traditions were normative, and didn't have an all-knowing god guiding him?

Still, you either have to show why Muslim me aren't committing such attacks, or state that they are!

Game set match

 

[Montalban]

I do not know why you would still say that we are perfect humans in regards to the fact that we have rules to follow.That is a bit illogical to conclude, don't you think? Or do you have a different definition of perfect than I do? A perfect man has no need to be bounded. He is truly free from sin eternally - not on some occasion as Islam says.

I first thought about the absurdity of this Islamic requirement about a year or so ago. A 'religious' program called Compass* (here in Australia). They focussed on a group of Moselm converts in Sheffield, UK... all women. There was this woman wearing a head-scarf going on about its virtues, as she was packing her bags. She and her husband were going back to his country; Yemen. As she talked to camera as she worked, before she packed it away, she tried on another garb, this one covering even the face.

It immediately struck me as odd that in a country as 'devout' as a Muslim country was (she called the 'west' decadent), she should be able to be less covered up, than in the decadent west PRECISELY BECAUSE they were supposedly less decadent in Yemen. Like locking your doors. If you move to the country, you should be able to be more casual about security, not more cautious!

In the horrid west where all manner of vice are practiced, she should have been advocating the most 'protective' garb known to Islam!



*a terrible program, all up, very anti-establishment Christianity, pro-weak Christian ideals, and the promotion of just about everything marked 'spirituality'

 

[kiwimac]

Montalban,

Is there nothing good in Islam as far as you are concerned? I ask this because over and over again, you attack Islam and you never, as far as I can tell have anything positive to say.

Kiwimac

 

[kris_kwel]

Dress represents culture rather than a part of religion. Muslim Middle east including Pakistan represents extremist dress culture like burqa which represents supresstion. Same is true with westhen extremist culture. Here dress culture is very close to nudeness , moralless and sex starved extremism. In between these two extremist cultures, i found ancient Asian cultures (Japan , India and China) like a cool breeze and a fine balance between these two extremes.

 

[muslim_convert]

No problemo for me. Now tell me why Muslim men arne't going nuts in the west and raping women, as there's far more temptation

for the same reason most muslims don't drink even when living in the land of the binge-drinkers. They seek refuge in the guidance of Allah and take His warnings and guidelines seriously. You are truely an ignorant fellow!

Here is something for you to ponder:

<H2 align=center>Alcohol Prohibition Was A Failure

National prohibition of alcohol (1920-33)--the "noble experiment"--was undertaken to reduce crime and corruption, solve social problems, reduce the tax burden created by prisons and poorhouses, and improve health and hygiene in America. The results of that experiment clearly indicate that it was a miserable failure on all counts. The evidence affirms sound economic theory, which predicts that prohibition of mutually beneficial exchanges is doomed to failure http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html​

In contrast when the revelation came to the Muslims of Medina about banning alcohol, the people immediately emptied out all their wine onto the streats. So much for "sound economic theory". One of the reasons Muslims take the word of our Creator seriously is because of its proven practical wisdom.

In this example, the thing to ponder is how had the Muslims got to such a level of piety that they were willing to follow and maintain the commad to abstenance, while "modern-day" Christians of the USA failed so abysmally. So much for equating modernity with progress.

If you want to ignore injunctions about covering that's up to you, but don't pretend you'll ever be able to match the wisdom and beauty of Islam with your shallow and conceited words.

​

​

</H2>

 

[peaceful soul]

Dress represents culture rather than a part of religion. Muslim Middle east including Pakistan represents extremist dress culture like burqa which represents supresstion. Same is true with westhen extremist culture. Here dress culture is very close to nudeness , moralless and sex starved extremism. In between these two extremist cultures, i found ancient Asian cultures (Japan , India and China) like a cool breeze and a fine balance between these two extremes.

It is an Islamic belief that dress is required, at least for women: to guard themelves against men and to help men be less likely to give into lust or other sexual sins. This is not about culture, at least from what I can gather. Obviously, dress can be shaped by culture; so, is the case of religion. There are Qu'ranic verses that help state the point of religious duties of proper dress.

 

[muslim_convert]

I thought you might attempt to answer the question, but alas, alas.

Shall we now all go off on a tangent and examine Christian scriptures again?

This is why I think it's a lose-lose situation for Islam.

Your all-knowing god has decreed that women should be more covered up by men; to protect men from their lustful ways. Moslem men in the west are exposed daily to such temptations and don't act on it; commendable for them, but showing that allah didn't give them any credit; OR could it be because Muhammed simply thought local traditions were normative, and didn't have an all-knowing god guiding him?

Still, you either have to show why Muslim me aren't committing such attacks, or state that they are!

Game set match

yep game set and match. silly boy,

"why Muslim me aren't committing such attacks?"

Because Muslims are following their religion and not yours!

You truely are a misguided soul.

salaams

 

[Vaneeza Malkah]

The "New Testament" tells women to dress modestly, but no mention of men.

 

[kris_kwel]

yep game set and match. silly boy,

"why Muslim me aren't committing such attacks?"

Because Muslims are following their religion and not yours!

You truely are a misguided soul.

salaams

I can't understand why muslims only have the problems. 2 % Hindus and 1% Buddhists are also living along with 2% Muslims in UK. Then why We found only British born Muslims as the part of UK bombings and not Hindus or Buddhists? This is only an example, this example is true everywhere from America to Australia. Why only Muslims? Why not Hindus? Why not Buddhists? Why not others? Why only muslims behind France riots?

 

[muslim_convert]

It is an Islamic belief that dress is required, at least for women: to guard themelves against men and to help men be less likely to give into lust or other sexual sins. This is not about culture, at least from what I can gather. Obviously, dress can be shaped by culture; so, is the case of religion. There are Qu'ranic verses that help state the point of religious duties of proper dress.

The injunction to cover is from Allah. Women are required to cover all except their face and hands, although one of the leading schools, made an exception for women working in the field that they could roll up thier dress to make life easier. Men must at the very least must cover themselves from their navel to below the knees. Its part of our religious code of dress.

What's the problem:

Say, O Disbelievers

"I worship not that which you worship,

Nor will you worship that which I worship.

And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.



Nor will you worship that which I worship.



To you be your religion, and to me my religion” (Quir’an, 109)

 

[msindiausa]

The "New Testament" tells women to dress modestly, but no mention of men.

What could a man wear in those times that wouldn't be modest?

 

[christalee4]

Although I don't think that people should walk around completely nude (that would be impractical and unsanitary), I do agree with the OP-er that an overabundance of 1) secluding women from society, 2) imposing laws on women to cover up, and 3) portraying women as weak objects, potential prey, contributes to the increased mystification and objectification of women.

This results in women being more sexually harassed if they happen by chance to let slip a view of their ankle or face. It also contributes to cultural practices like physically punishing one's wife, or in worse case scenario, honor killings. A repressive society that secludes and objectifies women produces in its men a strange combination of hatred and lust - the men hate women for speaking out against injustices upon their own sex, but also lust after them unhealthily at the same time. And the men blame for the women for their own and others' lust, and hate them just the same for it.

 

[looking4wisdom]

Although I don't think that people should walk around completely nude (that would be impractical and unsanitary), I do agree with the OP-er that an overabundance of 1) secluding women from society, 2) imposing laws on women to cover up, and 3) portraying women as weak objects, potential prey, contributes to the increased mystification and objectification of women.

This results in women being more sexually harassed if they happen by chance to let slip a view of their ankle or face. It also contributes to cultural practices like physically punishing one's wife, or in worse case scenario, honor killings. A repressive society that secludes and objectifies women produces in its men a strange combination of hatred and lust - the men hate women for speaking out against injustices upon their own sex, but also lust after them unhealthily at the same time. And the men blame for the women for their own and others' lust, and hate them just the same for it.

That is so true. Instead of taking responsibility for their actions, muslim men blame all of their sexual problems on the modesty of women.

 

[evange]

as a Christian, I choose to dress modestly to help keep my Christian brothers from sinning. But esentially, lust is their problem, not mine. I just choose to be modest because I want to help. If I were to choose to dress provacatively, it would be up to the men to keep their lust in check.

Blaming women is the dumbet idea ever. Even if I were to be naked infront of a man, it is still up to the man's mind to choose if he wants to dwell on it, or fight the temptation.

So then if a muslim man sees a woman who is not covered up, and he lusts for her, it is her fault? I think the man should keep his hormones in check.

And what about women who lust? We're not immune you know. Maybe somedays I wish men were covered head to toe so that I wouldent lust for them. Am I not etitled to the same courtesy?

 

[msindiausa]

as a Christian, I choose to dress modestly to help keep my Christian brothers from sinning. But esentially, lust is their problem, not mine. I just choose to be modest because I want to help. If I were to choose to dress provacatively, it would be up to the men to keep their lust in check.

Blaming women is the dumbet idea ever. Even if I were to be naked infront of a man, it is still up to the man's mind to choose if he wants to dwell on it, or fight the temptation.

So then if a muslim man sees a woman who is not covered up, and he lusts for her, it is her fault? I think the man should keep his hormones in check.

And what about women who lust? We're not immune you know. Maybe somedays I wish men were covered head to toe so that I wouldent lust for them. Am I not etitled to the same courtesy?

That is kind of the way I feel. I don't dress like Paris Hilton because I am uncomfortable dressing like a ****, but if I did it would be up to the men to keep their friend in their pants. Women do not cause rape by the clothes they wear. It is a muslim excuse to control women.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

as a Christian, I choose to dress modestly to help keep my Christian brothers from sinning. But esentially, lust is their problem, not mine. I just choose to be modest because I want to help. If I were to choose to dress provacatively, it would be up to the men to keep their lust in check.

Blaming women is the dumbet idea ever. Even if I were to be naked infront of a man, it is still up to the man's mind to choose if he wants to dwell on it, or fight the temptation.

So then if a muslim man sees a woman who is not covered up, and he lusts for her, it is her fault? I think the man should keep his hormones in check.

And what about women who lust? We're not immune you know. Maybe somedays I wish men were covered head to toe so that I wouldent lust for them. Am I not etitled to the same courtesy?

I don't think this is a healthy approach to solve problems in a society by saying women can be bla bla bla and men should be strong and keep control. Human's in general have the tendency to send and receive mixed signals which leads to actions (don't forget Satan main objective is to lead men and women astray)

8:29
O you who believe! If you obey and fear Allah, He will grant you Furqan [(a criterion to judge between right and wrong), or (Makhraj, i.e. a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will expiate for you your sins, and forgive you; and Allah is the Owner of the Great Bounty.

48:4
He it is Who sent down As-Sakiinah (Calmness and tranquillity) into the hearts of the believers, that they may grow more in Faith along with their (present) Faith. And to Allah belong the hosts of the heavens and the earth, and Allah is Ever All-Knower, All-Wise

 

[sethad]

this thread is ridiculous.

no one causes themselves to be raped. thats why they're the VICTIM

the perpetrators make the decision and it has nothing to do with clothing. and in fact, with kids, the stats are about the same. 1 in 5 boys are sexually abused and 1 in 4 girls are sexually abused. the stats are probably higher (especially among boys) because of the numbers of unreported cases. I"m not sure about the stats among adults.

to blame the victim for what happened to them is pure stupidity. to say that your religion says to blame them definitely shows that I wont be following that religion anytime soon.