Lunar eclipse from 6th-9th hour, after a 3pm crucifixion, would be 9-12midnight

[granpa]

your trolling is getting quite abusive.
if it isnt against forum rules then it should be.

you have flooded this thread with your nonsense.
you repeatedly ask the same question over and over and over again while completely ignoring everything that I say.
you have repeatedly misrepresented what I say.
you have repeatedly accused me of believing things that I have never even heard of.
(like natal charts and letters from pilate)

 

[Goinheix]

Ok. I offer yo adeal. You stop saying that jesus died by midnight and I promes to stop saying that yo are wrong. But if you keep saying that Mark, Luke and John are wrong, then I promess I will continue to say that you are wrong.

 

[granpa]

yet again you misrepresent what I wrote (probably hoping that I wont correct you)

I never said they were wrong.
I even pointed you to the original greek so you could see what they actually wrote.

they all wrote "already evening having become"

these links are also in the op

 

[PaladinValer]

They left bodies hanging on the crosses all the time back then. That was part of the punishment.

Crucifixion usually lasted hours...sometimes even days. Those that lasted over a day would have been left there. Furthermore, sometimes even those who finally expired would be left on the cross to be used as an example.

And again, my objections remain. There is no argument you have; it is based on psuedohistory and false knowledge.

 

[granpa]

you are free to believe whatever you want.

I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone.

 

[Goinheix]

I even pointed you to the original greek so you could see what they actually wrote.

they all wrote "already evening having become"

Evening is afternoon, late in the afternoon. For your information a Jew day do not commence at sunset but when the first star/planet is visible. That is during the first minutes of the afternoon twilight. Jesus was carried out to the sepulcre by evening, when still was the preparation day.

Mark
beacuse it was the preparation, the day before the sabbath

Luke
and that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on

John
because of the jew´s preparation day

Do you read "preparation" in the greek text? Isnt preparation the day before sabbath? Jesus was not placed in the sepulcre the sabbath before daybreak. He was not placed in the tumb on any hour of sabbath. It was the preparation day; the day before sabbath.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7569681/

 

[PaladinValer]

you are free to believe whatever you want.

I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone.

I believe in what is verified by fact. Why believe in anything else?

The secular is not the opposite of the sacred. The sacrilgious is.

Secular knowledge isn't opposite to truth. It is a part of truth. Just because a person brings up something secular in a religious discussion doesn't mean a lack of faith.

It is a fact that the Jews marked the beginning of the day at the sun's setting. It is a fact that the Romans marked the beginning of the day at the sun's rising. These are facts, not opinions; anyone who cares to do a little research of primary resources will see that it is so. Couple that with the information I gave above on the timeline of Jesus' crucifixion to his resurrection and everything makes sense. Your's, unfortunately, rejects the premises and therefore is not only illogical but outright impossible.

Again, this is fact. There are no emotions involved. There is no faith involved. It simply is how it works out. To deny it is to object only to orthodox Christianity but also to deny proven undeniable fact and try to replace it with a fabrication; in other words, a conspiracy theory.

 

[ManyAreCalled]

I've read through the whole thing and I actually signed up to post on this topic.


You guys kept bringing up the same thing saying when the Crucifixion started/ended/Jesus's body put in a tomb.

Why not start at the end and work your way BACK to see where it ends up? You know in math you divide the work you multiply to see if it's the same result or vice versa? Look-

"For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matt 12:40

Mark 16:9- "[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons."

As to what "early" means- Look at what the greek says.

(I can't post links yet but here it is - blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4404&t=KJV"

So what was the "first day of the week"? and let's count BACKWARDS 3 nights and three days. I'm bad with the Jewish day/thing so can somebody do this part?

I guess also it depends whether the "morning" of His raising up counted toward the 3 day thing or not. Basically, did he wake up after the fourth watch or when the fourth watch started on the first day of the week?

Isn't the first day of the week = monday?

 

[ManyAreCalled]

Anyway he realize quick that if Jesus rose on a sunday, there's no possible way He died on a friday. Because that would be fri night, sat morn (one day), sat night, sun morn (two days) Not three at all. It'd have to be thursday.

If Jesus died on thursday it'd be sunday afternoon he'd of been raised correct? So if Jesus died on a wednesday he'd be raised on a saturday...? no?

 

[granpa]

Sunday is the first day of the week

thats all covered in the op

 

[Steve Petersen]

Sunday is the first day of the week

thats all covered in the op

Starts at sundown Saturday by Jewish reckoning.

 

[granpa]

Ok. Lets go back and see what the op says:

Wow. I cant believe this never occurred to me before.​

first the way the hebrews measured time was as follows:

night (the day begins with sunset):

12th hour  6pm, first watch  (sunset)
 3rd hour  9pm, second watch
 6th hour 12am, third watch
 9th hour  3am, fourth watch, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow (Mark 13:35)

day:

12th hour  6am (sunrise)
 3rd hour  9am
 [COLOR=red]6th hour 12pm[/COLOR]
 9th hour  3pm

the way the romans measured time was as follows:

day (the day begins with sunrise):

12th hour  6am (sunrise)
 3rd hour  9am
 [COLOR=red]6th hour 12pm[/COLOR]
 9th hour  3pm

night:

12th hour  6pm, first watch (sunset)
 3rd hour  9pm, second watch
 6th hour 12am, third watch
 9st hour  3am, fourth watch, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow

before the chief priests in the morning of passover day (passover always occurs at the full moon):

Matthew 27 (KJV)

1When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
2And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.​

Mark 15 (KJV)

1And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.​

Luke 22:66 (KJV)

66And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,​

John 18:28 (KJV)

28Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.​

before pilate around noon of passover day:

John 19:13-14 (KJV)

13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!​

Thats noon.​

crucified at 3pm of passover day:

Mark 15:25 (KJV)

25And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.​

this cant mean 9am because that would be before he went to pilate
so it must mean 3 hours after he saw pilate and that would be 3pm.​

darkness from 9pm to midnight:

Mark 15:33 (KJV)

33And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.​

Matthew 27:45-46 (KJV)

45Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?​

Luke 23:44 (KJV)

44And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour​

The 6th hour that he was on the cross would be 9pm.
The 9th hour that he was on the cross would be 12midnight.
(Midnight is the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt)

lunar eclipse (lunar eclipses always occur during full moon) from sunset to midnight (jerusalem=lat N 31' 46" Long E 35' 14"):

Apr 25 of the year 31 had a partial lunar eclipse lasting from 20:00 to 00:30. It was a Wed and its julian day #1732495 (sunrise-4:58am?, sunset-6:12?) (UT 2:57-16:12)

penumbra begins 19:56 (all times are local, 2 hours East of UT)
Partial Eclipse Begins 21:11
Total Eclipse Begins -------
Mid. Eclipse 22:12
Total Eclipse Ends ------
Partial Eclipse Ends 23:14
Pen. Eclipse Ends 00:29​

there was also a more impressive total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover. (unless they had a very long winter, perhaps due to volcanic winter). And its on the wrong day. It was a tue and its julian day #1731815 (sunrise-4:28am?, sunset-6:41?) (UT 2:28-16:42)

penumbra begins 18:58
Partial Eclipse Begins 19:58
Total Eclipse Begins 21:01
Mid. Eclipse 22:12 21:47
Total Eclipse Ends 22:32
Partial Eclipse Ends 23:35
Pen. Eclipse Ends 00:35​

Interactive Google Map of Partial Lunar Eclipse of AD 31 April 25
Interactive Google Map of Total Lunar Eclipse of AD 29 June 14
Nasa website list of all lunar eclipses from AD 1 to AD 100
Julian day calculator
Julian Day Number Calculations
Worldwide Sunrise, Sunset And Twilight Time Calculator - Current
http://users.zoominternet.net/~matto/Java/Sunset%20and%20Sunrise.htm
​

Some say Joseph put him in the tomb at sunset but what does the greek actually say:

Matthew 27:57-58 (KJV)

57When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
58He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.​

Mark 15:42-43 (KJV)

42And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.​

but when I look at the Interlinear Bible for matthew 27 and for mark 15 it says "evening having already come". (Matthew 27:57 Mark 15:42)
What it actually says is that evening had already come not that it was evening at that time.​

Some say that the sabbath was about to begin (which would be at sunset) but what does the greek actually say:

Luke 23:52-54 (KJV)

52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.​

when i look up "beginning" in the Interlinear Bible for luke 23 it says 'to dawn'. (Luke 23:54)
in other words the sabbath day was about to dawn
this makes perfect sense because he was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights and he arose on sunday morning at dawn. 3 days after thur morning would be sunday morning.​

3 days and nights in the heart of the earth:

Matthew 12:40 (KJV)

40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

arose on sunday morning (first day of the week):

Mark 16:2 (YLT)

2and early in the morning of the first (day) of the sevens (meaning "week"), they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun,​

Putting all these together:
Wednesday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn, before the chief priests 
 9 am
12 pm noon, stands before Pilate
 3 pm crucified (3 hours after seeing pilate)
 6 pm sunset 
 9 pm darkness (lunar eclipse) starts (6 hours after crucifixion)

Thursday

12 am midnight, darkness (lunar eclipse) ends, Jesus dies (9 hours after crucifixion)
 3 am
 6 am dawn, Jesus put in tomb (sabbath about to dawn)
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Friday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Saturday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Sunday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn, resurrection, tomb found empty
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

It belatedly occurs to me that some might think that I am making some kind of anti-christian statement here.
It is true that the passover lamb was killed at evening and the angel of death killed the first born of the egyptians at midnight.
But there was also one innocent man who lost his son to the angel of death and was, like Christ, considered to be smitten of God.
That man was Job.
It wasnt till 40 days later when God appeared at sinai that he was vindicated.

15th year of tiberius:

 

[pshun2404]

The phenomenon was not an eclipse at all since Passover always occurs on a full moon and the event happened mid-day...

It would have to have been a Solar eclipse and a Solar eclipse cannot happen on a full moon.

Paul

 

[granpa]

all of that is covered in the op

 

[Mr.SteveSir]

Anyway he realize quick that if Jesus rose on a sunday, there's no possible way He died on a friday. Because that would be fri night, sat morn (one day), sat night, sun morn (two days) Not three at all. It'd have to be thursday.

If Jesus died on thursday it'd be sunday afternoon he'd of been raised correct? So if Jesus died on a wednesday he'd be raised on a saturday...? no?

Some scholars have speculated that the Jewish leaders had called for a special Sabbath on the Friday prior to the Passover Sabbath, which means Jesus would have been crucified on Thursday. Thus Thursday, Friday, and Saturday; and Thursday, Friday and Saturday night in the tomb. I think the main thing to remember is that Jesus died, was buried, and then rose from the dead. The day on which He was crucified is less important.

 

[pshun2404]

He died around 3 pm on what we would call Friday day but for them it was the day before the 7th day Sabbath which begins on our Friday evening. so He was in the tomb on the day of the 6th day, spent all day of the 7th day Sabbath, and rose early in the morning (after the evening) of the 8th day. By inclusive reckoning (as the Hebrews counted time) any part of a day can be called a day (like remember the day we went to the baseball game? This refers to a part of the day not the whole 24 hour period. So Jesus died and buried on day 6, laid in the tomb all of day 7, and rose after the evening portion in the early morning of day 8 (which is a 1st day). That is your three days and it is not necessary therefore for Him to have been crucified on Thursday (days 4 and 5 in the Hebrew reckoning)

Paul

 

[Zeleste]

Grampa is absolutely wrong.
Jesus was not crucified by 3 pm but by the 3rd hour (9 am)
Totally wrong.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Grampa is absolutely wrong.
Jesus was not crucified by 3 pm but by the 3rd hour (9 am)
Totally wrong.

Whoever does not believe in the resurrection of the dead has never been to an old CF thread.

 

[Zeleste]

Whoever does not believe in the resurrection of the dead has never been to an old CF thread.

Dont you believe in resurrection???

 

[Zeleste]

Granpa is totally wrong.
Solar eclipses only hapens in new moon.
Jesus was not crucified in new moon.
It is all a big nonsence.