Lunar eclipse from 6th-9th hour, after a 3pm crucifixion, would be 9-12midnight

[granpa]

Wow. I cant believe this never occurred to me before.​

first the way the hebrews measured time was as follows:

night (the day begins with sunset):

12th hour  6pm, first watch  (sunset)
 3rd hour  9pm, second watch
 6th hour 12am, third watch
 9th hour  3am, fourth watch, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow (Mark 13:35)

day:

12th hour  6am (sunrise)
 3rd hour  9am
 [COLOR=red]6th hour 12pm[/COLOR]
 9th hour  3pm

the way the romans measured time was as follows:

day (the day begins with sunrise):

12th hour  6am (sunrise)
 3rd hour  9am
 [COLOR=red]6th hour 12pm[/COLOR]
 9th hour  3pm

night:

12th hour  6pm, first watch (sunset)
 3rd hour  9pm, second watch
 6th hour 12am, third watch
 9st hour  3am, fourth watch, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow

before the chief priests in the morning of passover day (passover always occurs at the full moon):

Matthew 27 (KJV)

1When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
2And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.​

Mark 15 (KJV)

1And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.​

Luke 22:66 (KJV)

66And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,​

John 18:28 (KJV)

28Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.​

before pilate around noon of passover day:

John 19:13-14 (KJV)

13When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!​

Thats noon.​

crucified at 3pm of passover day:

Mark 15:25 (KJV)

25And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.​

this cant mean 9am because that would be before he went to pilate
so it must mean 3 hours after he saw pilate and that would be 3pm.​

darkness from 9pm to midnight:

Mark 15:33 (KJV)

33And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.​

Matthew 27:45-46 (KJV)

45Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?​

Luke 23:44 (KJV)

44And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour​

The 6th hour that he was on the cross would be 9pm.
The 9th hour that he was on the cross would be 12midnight.
(Midnight is the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt)

lunar eclipse (lunar eclipses always occur during full moon) from sunset to midnight (jerusalem=lat N 31' 46" Long E 35' 14"):

Apr 25 of the year 31 had a partial lunar eclipse lasting from 20:00 to 00:30. It was a Wed and its julian day #1732495 (sunrise-4:58am?, sunset-6:12?) (UT 2:57-16:12)

penumbra begins 19:56 (all times are local, 2 hours East of UT)
Partial Eclipse Begins 21:11
Total Eclipse Begins -------
Mid. Eclipse 22:12
Total Eclipse Ends ------
Partial Eclipse Ends 23:14
Pen. Eclipse Ends 00:29​

there was also a more impressive total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover. (unless they had a very long winter, perhaps due to volcanic winter). And its on the wrong day. It was a tue and its julian day #1731815 (sunrise-4:28am?, sunset-6:41?) (UT 2:28-16:42)

penumbra begins 18:58
Partial Eclipse Begins 19:58
Total Eclipse Begins 21:01
Mid. Eclipse 22:12 21:47
Total Eclipse Ends 22:32
Partial Eclipse Ends 23:35
Pen. Eclipse Ends 00:35​

Interactive Google Map of Partial Lunar Eclipse of AD 31 April 25
Interactive Google Map of Total Lunar Eclipse of AD 29 June 14
Nasa website list of all lunar eclipses from AD 1 to AD 100
Julian day calculator
http://www.nr.com/julian.html
http://www.csgnetwork.com/sunriseset.html
http://users.zoominternet.net/~matto/Java/Sunset%20and%20Sunrise.htm
​

Some say Joseph put him in the tomb at sunset but what does the greek actually say:

Matthew 27:57-58 (KJV)

57When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
58He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.​

Mark 15:42-43 (KJV)

42And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.​

but when I look at the Interlinear Bible for matthew 27 and for mark 15 it says "evening having already come". (Matthew 27:57 Mark 15:42)
What it actually says is that evening had already come not that it was evening at that time.​

Some say that the sabbath was about to begin (which would be at sunset) but what does the greek actually say:

Luke 23:52-54 (KJV)

52This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.​

when i look up "beginning" in the Interlinear Bible for luke 23 it says 'to dawn'. (Luke 23:54)
in other words the sabbath day was about to dawn
this makes perfect sense because he was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights and he arose on sunday morning at dawn. 3 days after thur morning would be sunday morning.​

3 days and nights in the heart of the earth:

Matthew 12:40 (KJV)

40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

arose on sunday morning (first day of the week):

Mark 16:2 (YLT)

2and early in the morning of the first (day) of the sevens (meaning "week"), they come unto the sepulchre, at the rising of the sun,​

Putting all these together:
Wednesday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn, before the chief priests 
 9 am
12 pm noon, stands before Pilate
 3 pm crucified (3 hours after seeing pilate)
 6 pm sunset 
 9 pm darkness (lunar eclipse) starts (6 hours after crucifixion)

Thursday

12 am midnight, darkness (lunar eclipse) ends, Jesus dies (9 hours after crucifixion)
 3 am
 6 am dawn, Jesus put in tomb (sabbath about to dawn)
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Friday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Saturday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

Sunday

12 am midnight
 3 am
 6 am dawn, resurrection, tomb found empty
 9 am
12 pm noon
 3 pm
 6 pm sunset
 9 pm

It belatedly occurs to me that some might think that I am making some kind of anti-christian statement here.
It is true that the passover lamb was killed at evening and the angel of death killed the first born of the egyptians at midnight.
But there was also one innocent man who lost his son to the angel of death and was, like Christ, considered to be smitten of God.
That man was Job.
It wasnt till 40 days later when God appeared at sinai that he was vindicated.

15th year of tiberius:

Thus, when in AD 13, the powers held by Tiberius were made equal, rather than second, to Augustus's own powers, he was for all intents and purposes a "co-princeps" with Augustus, and in the event of the latter's passing, would simply continue to rule without an interregnum or possible upheaval.[10] Augustus died in AD 14, at the age of 75.[11] He was buried with all due ceremony and, as had been arranged beforehand, deified, his will read, and Tiberius confirmed as his sole surviving heir.

The Gospels record that during Tiberius' reign, Jesus of Nazareth preached and was executed under the authority of Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of Judea. In the Bible, Tiberius is mentioned by name only once, in Luke 3:1, stating that John the Baptist entered on his public ministry in the fifteenth year of his reign

 

[Distinguished]

Wow. I cant believe this never occurred to me before.

According to Mark Jesus was crucified at 3 in the afternoon.
Darkness from the 6th to the 9th hour (after he was crucified)
would be from 9pm to 12midnight
(the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt and the Israelites left).

Apr 35 of the year 31 had a lunar eclipse lasting from 20:00 to 00:30.
(well after sunset)

Javascript Lunar Eclipse Explorer for ASIA

Make sure you are going by the Jewish time which is different from our time.

 

[lesliedellow]

Wow. I cant believe this never occurred to me before.

According to Mark Jesus was crucified at 3 in the afternoon.
Darkness from the 6th to the 9th hour (after he was crucified)
would be from 9pm to 12midnight
(the hour the angel of death passed throughout Epypt and the Israelites left).

Apr 35 of the year 31 had a lunar eclipse lasting from 20:00 to 00:30.
(well after sunset)

Javascript Lunar Eclipse Explorer for ASIA

In first century Palestine time was measured as hours since that time in the morning which we call 6am. With the possible exception of mariners, nobody was much bothered about minutes until the industrial revolution came along.

And it was the third hour, and they crucified him: 9am in other words.

And when the sixth hour was come, midday in other words.

there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. 3pm in other words.

 

[granpa]

Ok. Lets see.

It was the 6th hour when pilate let Jesus be led away. Thats noon.
Mark said he was actually crucified at the 3rd hour. Thats 3pm
Darkness was from 6th to 9th hour. Thats 9pm to 12midnight.

midnight after passover was when the angel of death passed thoughout egypt.
the partial lunar eclipse of Apr 26 in the year 31 was from 20:00pm till 00:30 (by modern reckoning)

there was also a total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover. I think.

 

[lesliedellow]

Ok. Lets see.

It was the 6th hour when pilate let Jesus be led away. Thats noon.
Mark said he was actually crucified at the 3rd hour. Thats 3pm
Darkness was from 6th to 9th hour. Thats 9pm to 12midnight.

midnight after passover was when the angel of death passed thoughout egypt.
the partial lunar eclipse of Apr 26 in the year 31 was from 20:00pm till 00:30 (by modern reckoning)

there was also a total eclipse on june 14 of 29 but that would be too late in the year for passover. I think.

I quoted Mark word for word in my post. Apparently you don't know how time was measured in first century Palestine, and it seems you don't want to know. Scholars usually date the crucifixion in 30AD or 33AD; depending upon whether they base their calculations on the synoptics or John.

 

[cobweb]

3rd hour is 9am
6th hour is noon
9th hour is 3 pm

We still tell time the same way in our Church.

 

[granpa]

Yes. I know. Thats absolute time.
Thats how I arrived at 6th hour being noon.
Time can also be measured relative to some important event.
Like the crucifixion itself.
there was darkness during the 6th, 7th, 8th, & 9th hour that he was on the cross.

There is good reason for believing that he died at midnight so its entirely reasonable to interpret it this way.

 

[granpa]

I quoted Mark word for word in my post. Apparently you don't know how time was measured in first century Palestine, and it seems you don't want to know. Scholars usually date the crucifixion in 30AD or 33AD; depending upon whether they base their calculations on the synoptics or John.

and obviously you didnt even read my post because
if you had then you would have seen that I said that
the 6th hour was noon.
So obviously I do know how they divided the day into hours.

the phrase 'the 9th hour" is ambiguous. It can mean 9 o'clock or it can mean 9 hours after some event that occurred at the 1st hour. (the crucifixion)

 

[cobweb]

Why would it even be noted if the darkness took place at night?

 

[granpa]

john 19:14 says Pilate sat in the place called the pavement at the 6th hour.

So the 3rd hour referred to by Mark cant be absolute.
Jesus cant have been crucified before Pilate let him be led away.

the 3rd hour must be relative to the time Jesus was led away.
That makes it 3pm.

the 6th to 9th hour after he was crucified would be 9pm to 12midnight.

 

[granpa]

why would a lunar eclipse at the moment of the crucifixion be noted??
are you serious?

its a sign from God.

 

[lesliedellow]

the phrase 'the 9th hour" is ambiguous. It can mean 9 o'clock or it can mean 9 hours after some event that occurred at the 1st hour. (the crucifixion)

To Mark's readers it would have been no more ambiguous than 3 o'clock is for us. Had they been told that he meant something other than that, their reaction would probably have been something along the lines of, "Well, why the bloody hell couldn't you say so then?"

 

[granpa]

because it was common knowledge

do you really think that people didnt know about the lunar eclipse and
the fact that he died at the same moment that the angel of death went throughout egypt?

this would have been the talk of the town.
and his disciples would have made sure that it was the talk of the town.

 

[Goinheix]

In first century Palestine time was measured as hours since that time in the morning which we call 6am. With the possible exception of mariners, nobody was much bothered about minutes until the industrial revolution came along.

And it was the third hour, and they crucified him: 9am in other words.

And when the sixth hour was come, midday in other words.

there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. 3pm in other words.

But Jesus was before Pilates by 12noon

 

[Goinheix]

Ok. Lets see.

It was the 6th hour when pilate let Jesus be led away. Thats noon.
Mark said he was actually crucified at the 3rd hour. Thats 3pm
Darkness was from 6th to 9th hour. Thats 9pm to 12midnight.

3rd hour is 9am
9th hour is 3pm

 

[Goinheix]

Yes. I know. Thats absolute time.
Thats how I arrived at 6th hour being noon.
Time can also be measured relative to some important event.
Like the crucifixion itself.
there was darkness during the 6th, 7th, 8th, & 9th hour that he was on the cross.

There is good reason for believing that he died at midnight so its entirely reasonable to interpret it this way.

NO WAY.
That is not the Gosples say

 

[Goinheix]

john 19:14 says Pilate sat in the place called the pavement at the 6th hour.

So the 3rd hour referred to by Mark cant be absolute.
Jesus cant have been crucified before Pilate let him be led away.

the 3rd hour must be relative to the time Jesus was led away.
That makes it 3pm.

the 6th to 9th hour after he was crucified would be 9pm to 12midnight.

"Must be" is not "It is". The true is that 3rd is 3rd, and 6th is 6th.
How it is possible that Jesus was before Pilates by 6th (12 noon) and be crucified by 3rd (9am)? Only one obvios explanation. Jesus was crucified next morning.

 

[Goinheix]

We are avoiding the main issue
For a moment lets take the time in Mark and synoptics as relative to some important event. When Mark states that Jesus was crucified in the 3rd hour, is the 3rd hour in reference to what important event? Clearly is not 3pm, and I dont notice any important event happening 3 hours before the crcifixion.

Jesus was by Pilates place by 12noon, and was crcified by 9am next morning.

 

[Goinheix]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7548976/

 

[ebia]

Anytime anyone reads something in the bible and thinks "why hasn't anyone realised this before" they should stop. Someone probably has thought it before, and if it's not out there as a common idea it's because lots of people have already pointed out the flaw.

There are still fresh insights to be had from Scripture as God, through scholarship etc, allows fresh light to be thrown on it. But they aren't going to be in the "bleedin' obvious" category.