Luke 13:3 being ripped out of context to teach Repent Of Your Sins

[Hoping2]

I asked if you think Jesus had evil thoughts. And the reason I asked is that Jesus told us that evil thoughts defile all of us. Mark 7:21-23

Do you think Jesus had defiling evil thoughts?

What is the difference between evil thoughts and temptations ?
I see none.
When temptation arises, we have the choice of either resisting/rejecting them, or fostering them in our minds.
Jesus was tempted as we are, and as He rejected His temptations, so can we resist ours.

 

[Hoping2]

"The body is dead because of sin" - I try to be perfectly obedient every day through faith. But I also face the reality that sin is still present.

What is the rest of that scripture ?
"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Rom 8:10)
If Christ is in you, you are no longer subject to the "flesh".
It is now subject to you !

If "sin is still present" is your reality, how do you relate to scriptures like Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
And "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
How can sin still be present when you have repented of sin and been reborn of God's seed ?

In the resurrection when we are glorified, our obedience will always be perfect. As long as we are in this world, "we all stumble in many ways."

The only thing that will change at our resurrection to life will be the vessel we travel in.
Our present vessel is just skin and bones, with no power of its own.

After 50 years of living the Christian life, I've observed all too many times that when people assume they are being "perfectly obedient" to God, they can't ever admit they're wrong, nor even question what they do. And if anyone questions them, they react offendedly, as if to say "you blasphemer." Self-righteousness is an inclination for everyone who claims they are sinless, because they still live in mortal human flesh and in a sinful and self-righteous world.

Jesus lived in mortal human flesh, and it had no power over Him
Why would it over us ?
BTW, I have found that self-righteousness is an inclination of those who claim to be Christ's, but walk in and after the "flesh".

So whenever you claim that you ALWAYS live by the Spirit, even in times of trouble, trial, tribulation, and adversity, I don't believe you.

You don't need to believe me.
But Jesus did it, and we are to walk as He walked...if we know Him. (1 John 2:3-6)

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

When temptation arises, we have the choice of either resisting/rejecting them, or fostering them in our minds.

Whether we reject or not, evil thoughts do defile everyone, no matter how long the seeming duration. No one gets a pass on the reality of Mark 7:21-23. Not even an Apostle, Romans 7:7-13

Even partial sights, darkened by our adversary, is a form of sin caused by and of the devil, Mark 4:15, Matt. 13:19, Luke 8:12

All unbelievers remain bound by the blindness caused by Satan. Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

Excuse them as you are led. I don't see there any excuses available or on the table. Believers theoretically are supposed to be honest about suffering temptations of, caused by the tempter

Anyone who thinks they follow the laws to achieve sinlessness are merely deceived by thoughts imposed on them by the devil, who isn't capable of following any laws, and even less capable of actually being honest

 

[tdidymas]

You, on your own can NEVER be a saint. It is only the finished work of Christ on the Cross that allows Paul to call you a Saint. Your BEST works are like filthy rags onto the Lord. Just accept what the Bible teaches and move along.

Did you even read what I wrote? If so, then how can you presume that I'm talking about "on your own"? How about reading what I wrote carefully, and stop being an adversary?

 

[tdidymas]

Keep your titles for yourself, I just live what the Bible teaches. How many good works did the thief on the cross perform? Was he a saint? Works are a by-product not a qualification. Sainthood has nothing to do with what we've done. If Jesus never died on the cross, you think you can do good works and become a saint? Absurd

Again, you presume too much. You haven't read what I wrote with understanding. If this is how you treat the scripture, then you don't know how to read it. Again, stop being an adversary. Read what I wrote with understanding.

 

[tdidymas]

What is the rest of that scripture ?
"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." (Rom 8:10)
If Christ is in you, you are no longer subject to the "flesh".
It is now subject to you !

If "sin is still present" is your reality, how do you relate to scriptures like Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
And "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
How can sin still be present when you have repented of sin and been reborn of God's seed ?

The only thing that will change at our resurrection to life will be the vessel we travel in.
Our present vessel is just skin and bones, with no power of its own.

Jesus lived in mortal human flesh, and it had no power over Him
Why would it over us ?
BTW, I have found that self-righteousness is an inclination of those who claim to be Christ's, but walk in and after the "flesh".

You don't need to believe me.
But Jesus did it, and we are to walk as He walked...if we know Him. (1 John 2:3-6)

I believe the Bible, but I don't believe the false conclusion you jump to about it. And your statement "you don't need to believe me" is a true statement, and I don't. You don't present yourself as a good example of honesty to follow, so I guess this conversation is over.

 

[PastorKeith]

Did you even read what I wrote? If so, then how can you presume that I'm talking about "on your own"? How about reading what I wrote carefully, and stop being an adversary?

I did read what you wrote and you are on a whole different page. In my discussion of Saints vs Sinners, I am ONLY TALKING about Christians. These are people who are justified by the blood of Christ on the cross. I am NOT TALKING about people who claim to be Christians, but are not.

And here is my point, track carefully with me so we don't have to go over this again and again.... THE ONLY reason you can be called a Saint, is BECAUSE you are Justified by Christ. The good works that follow in your life or only evidence of your sainthood, not the source of it.

Stop thinking people with differing opinions are adversaries. That's childish.

 

[Cockcrow]

Every human being, both saved and unsaved, will be judged by their works at the great white throne/sheep and goats judgment. The judgment is called by two different names. It is the same judgment.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body.

Matthew 7:19 Every tree (person) that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

believers will be judged separately for rewards, at the Judgement seat of Christ. that judgement is only good things, for the saved believer they will receive their rewards. the unsaved will be at Great White throne judgement. nobody who is judged at the Great White throne judgement will be saved, all of them will be judged by their works, then are cast into the lake of fire due to their works.

 

[Hoping2]

Whether we reject or not, evil thoughts do defile everyone, no matter how long the seeming duration.

Then Jesus was defiled.
I reject your POV.

No one gets a pass on the reality of Mark 7:21-23. Not even an Apostle, Romans 7:7-13

Paul was narrating a past experience, not a present one.

Even partial sights, darkened by our adversary, is a form of sin caused by and of the devil, Mark 4:15, Matt. 13:19, Luke 8:12

What does that mean ?

All unbelievers remain bound by the blindness caused by Satan. Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2

Agreed.
That makes them very different from believers.

Excuse them as you are led. I don't see there any excuses available or on the table. Believers theoretically are supposed to be honest about suffering temptations of, caused by the tempter

Temptations give rise to joy ! (James 1:2-4)

Anyone who thinks they follow the laws to achieve sinlessness are merely deceived by thoughts imposed on them by the devil, who isn't capable of following any laws, and even less capable of actually being honest

Agreed, as the faithful are dead to the Law.
It is now written in the hearts of those who actually love God above all else.

 

[Hoping2]

I believe the Bible, but I don't believe the false conclusion you jump to about it. And your statement "you don't need to believe me" is a true statement, and I don't. You don't present yourself as a good example of honesty to follow, so I guess this conversation is over.

You don't need to believe me, but you do need to believe the scriptures I provided.

 

[tdidymas]

I did read what you wrote and you are on a whole different page. In my discussion of Saints vs Sinners, I am ONLY TALKING about Christians. These are people who are justified by the blood of Christ on the cross. I am NOT TALKING about people who claim to be Christians, but are not.

And here is my point, track carefully with me so we don't have to go over this again and again.... THE ONLY reason you can be called a Saint, is BECAUSE you are Justified by Christ. The good works that follow in your life or only evidence of your sainthood, not the source of it.

Stop thinking people with differing opinions are adversaries. That's childish.

I called you adversarial because you keep assuming I'm saying things I'm not saying. But here is where I differ with you: your claim that being a saint has nothing to do with actions. Please do not assume that I advocate that actions CAUSE a person to be a saint, I never said that, and never will. Nevertheless, a person (anyone, whether Christian or not) will NOT know you're a saint unless you have actions that are conducive to sainthood. This is what Jesus meant when He said "by their fruit you shall know them."

I am a strong advocate for reformation doctrine of justification by faith alone, by grace alone, by Christ alone. Yet I also advocate for the reformation doctrine of sanctification in actions and character. It's good that a person gets justification by faith straight. But there are many Christians who get confused about it, and are hindered because they don't understand that the peace of God in their heart is maintained by right actions. John wrote (to Christians) in 1 John "he who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous." The gospels which profusely quote Jesus, has Him speaking of actions the vast majority of the time.

If you agree with all of this, I just can't understand why you are so hostile to what I'm saying.

 

[tdidymas]

You don't need to believe me, but you do need to believe the scriptures I provided.

I said before and I'll say again. I believe the scripture, but not your interpretation of it.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Then Jesus was defiled.
I reject your POV.

It was your point of view.

You said Jesus was tempted like we are

I don't accept that was the case. He was tempted externally only. And He was without sin. Big difference there

The balance of us do have evil thoughts that defile us, no exceptions. And that is why you and no one else follows the law

 

[Hoping2]

It was your point of view.

You said Jesus was tempted like we are

I don't accept that was the case. He was tempted externally only. And He was without sin. Big difference there

The balance of us do have evil thoughts that defile us, no exceptions. And that is why you and no one else follows the law

Were your position correct, than Hen 4:15 is a lie..."For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
Jesus was tempted just as we are.

BTW Christians are dead to the Law.

 

[David Lamb]

It was your point of view.

You said Jesus was tempted like we are

I don't accept that was the case. He was tempted externally only. And He was without sin. Big difference there

The balance of us do have evil thoughts that defile us, no exceptions. And that is why you and no one else follows the law

The bible makes it abundantly clear that Jesus was indeed tempted as we are:

“For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.” (Heb 4:15 NKJV)

I don't know what you mean by saying that He was tempted externally - if the temptations remained outside Him, then in what sense was He tempted?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Were your position correct, than Hen 4:15 is a lie..."For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
Jesus was tempted just as we are.

BTW Christians are dead to the Law.

As noted prior, being tempted and being tempted, but without sin is a massive difference

Sin is of the devil. We have been made "subject to" such intrusions, in mind and heart

God doesn't have that issue

So you thinking it's a lie is just another example of only being able to see and understand in part, never able to consider the matter from a realistic perspective

There are exactly zero people who even know what it is like to be sinless. And those who claim that position have been made delusional by the evil their bear of our mutual adversary

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Paul was honest enough to admit his own condition, post salvation. Romans 7:17-23, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14, 1 Tim. 1:15 and many many others

You may at some point understand that sins are not counted against people. 2 Cor. 5:19

But they are counted against the tempter and we all engage the tempter, internally

There's the split

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The bible makes it abundantly clear that Jesus was indeed tempted as we are:

“For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.” (Heb 4:15 NKJV)

I don't know what you mean by saying that He was tempted externally - if the temptations remained outside Him, then in what sense was He tempted?

Temptation for us all is an internal matter. We are tempted in mind and in heart by our adversary, the devil. Most believers accept this as a fact, and do so from personal experiences across their lifetime. I certainly will attest to the fact of it.

The avenue of temptation is in the mind, via evil thoughts. We all have them. Sitting in a pew on Sunday and wishing we were fishing instead would even be an example of violating the sabbath in mind. Jesus gave a more stunning example of internal temptations in Matt. 5:28, saying even the thought of adultery is committing it. Most will pooh pooh this example and claim "it's only natural" but it's not. It's adultery. Even for a split second, it's adultery. Few can tell the truth of what it is, as Jesus stated. Even fewer will admit to that fact. I will admit it because I know it to be a fact. Happens to me everyday. Yes, I do have to fight it. It's real.

Jesus advised us all clearly, that evil thoughts DEFILE us all. Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 15:18-20. Paul gave us a first hand personal example of this fact in Romans 7:7-13. Paul exampled the source of it again in 2 Cor. 12:7 and Gal. 4:14, culminating with his claim of being the present tense "chief of sinners" in 1 Tim. 1:15. Follow his lead and if you're honest you'll come to the same conclusion not because of just "you" but the fact of being bound with our adversary in our minds who keeps us from seeing the obvious problem.

These are the engagements of us with our adversary. How do we know this? Because evil thoughts defile us. These are sin. Sin is defilement.

So now you should ask yourself a simple question. Do you think Jesus had evil defiling thoughts?

Any believer in their right mind should back away from that position in a hurry. But hey, if you want to go there, entertain me.

I've considered this dichotomy or conundrum for a considerably long time, and can not for the life of me say that Jesus dealt with Satan internally, within His Own Mind. Satan had nothing, zero, zilch IN HIM

And if that wasn't the case, then I'd dare say He would not be fit to listen to as it would be at least potentially suspect

So, did Jesus think about murdering someone? Adultery with a hot chick? Sorry. Never happened.

Jesus' temptations are spelled out to us in the dialog, external, with the adversary. And I'd suggest it was in audible format, not internal, in His Mind. Like ours. But not quite the same. You see when evil thoughts, lack of understanding scripture, deceptions come to our mind, most people simply don't have a clue that it's not just them thinking that way. They get led away by thinking it's their own thoughts, and not the tempter's interference or interruptions

And very often with religious people it can easily turn them into lying hypocrites, thinking they are sinless for example if they don't break the laws or sin externally via an act. And that is never ever the case for any of us. We are literally bound to disobedience and that binding is primarily in mind, via the evil conscience. Heb. 10:22

I simply prefer to be honest, and even that I'll admit simultaneously that even that honesty is tainted by my adversary.
But the light is on and I can't shut it off. Lest I be made a liar by my enemy

 

[David Lamb]

Temptation for us all is an internal matter. We are tempted in mind and in heart by our adversary, the devil. Most believers accept this as a fact, and do so from personal experiences across their lifetime. I certainly will attest to the fact of it.

The avenue of temptation is in the mind, via evil thoughts. We all have them. Sitting in a pew on Sunday and wishing we were fishing instead would even be an example of violating the sabbath in mind. Jesus gave a more stunning example of internal temptations in Matt. 5:28, saying even the thought of adultery is committing it. Most will pooh pooh this example and claim "it's only natural" but it's not. It's adultery. Even for a split second, it's adultery. Few can tell the truth of what it is, as Jesus stated. Even fewer will admit to that fact. I will admit it because I know it to be a fact. Happens to me everyday. Yes, I do have to fight it. It's real.

Jesus advised us all clearly, that evil thoughts DEFILE us all. Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 15:18-20. Paul gave us a first hand personal example of this fact in Romans 7:7-13. Paul exampled the source of it again in 2 Cor. 12:7 and Gal. 4:14, culminating with his claim of being the present tense "chief of sinners" in 1 Tim. 1:15. Follow his lead and if you're honest you'll come to the same conclusion not because of just "you" but the fact of being bound with our adversary in our minds who keeps us from seeing the obvious problem.

These are the engagements of us with our adversary. How do we know this? Because evil thoughts defile us. These are sin. Sin is defilement.

So now you should ask yourself a simple question. Do you think Jesus had evil defiling thoughts?

Any believer in their right mind should back away from that position in a hurry. But hey, if you want to go there, entertain me.

I've considered this dichotomy or conundrum for a considerably long time, and can not for the life of me say that Jesus dealt with Satan internally, within His Own Mind. Satan had nothing, zero, zilch IN HIM

And if that wasn't the case, then I'd dare say He would not be fit to listen to as it would be at least potentially suspect

So, did Jesus think about murdering someone? Adultery with a hot chick? Sorry. Never happened.

Jesus' temptations are spelled out to us in the dialog, external, with the adversary. And I'd suggest it was in audible format, not internal, in His Mind. Like ours. But not quite the same. You see when evil thoughts, lack of understanding scripture, deceptions come to our mind, most people simply don't have a clue that it's not just them thinking that way. They get led away by thinking it's their own thoughts, and not the tempter's interference or interruptions

And very often with religious people it can easily turn them into lying hypocrites, thinking they are sinless for example if they don't break the laws or sin externally via an act. And that is never ever the case for any of us. We are literally bound to disobedience and that binding is primarily in mind, via the evil conscience. Heb. 10:22

I simply prefer to be honest, and even that I'll admit simultaneously that even that honesty is tainted by my adversary.
But the light is on and I can't shut it off. Lest I be made a liar by my enemy

Ah! Now I understand what you mean by external/internal temptation. I had imagined that you were saying that the temptations Jesus suffered di not affect Him internally, but now I see that you meant rather that there was nothing sinful in Him to fuel the devil's temptations. Thanks for the clarification, and sorry to have misunderstood.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Ah! Now I understand what you mean by external/internal temptation. I had imagined that you were saying that the temptations Jesus suffered di not affect Him internally, but now I see that you meant rather that there was nothing sinful in Him to fuel the devil's temptations. Thanks for the clarification, and sorry to have misunderstood.

More than a few believers think that Jesus had adulterous thoughts, you know, like a typical guy does have.

I say that isn't and can't be the case. IF Jesus would have joked and guffawed with the guys that way, I'd be sorely disappointed. I'm certainly disappointed in myself that way. But hey, that's part of the life you get in construction.

See how readily I accuse and then excuse myself? That's sin, in action.

 

[David Lamb]

More than a few believers think that Jesus had adulterous thoughts, you know, like a typical guy does have.

I say that isn't and can't be the case. IF Jesus would have joked and guffawed with the guys that way, I'd be sorely disappointed. I'm certainly disappointed in myself that way. But hey, that's part of the life you get in construction.

See how readily I accuse and then excuse myself? That's sin, in action.

I had better make clear that I certainly don't believe that Jesus had any sin whatever, whether sins of thought, word, deed, or sins of omission - not doing good things. In that He is unique, for as you imply, we are all sinners.