Lucifer is probably not the proper name for Satan

[bbbbbbb]

Satan (the opponent) has multiple descriptive names in the Bible. One that I find amusing is Beelzebub, which literally means "Lord of the flies" and which was the inspiration of the popular novel by that name. Baalzebub was also an idol.

God never reveals His true name in scripture, simply because it is too wonderful (i.e. so glorious that mortal man would perish if he merely spoke it). Instead, God is known by a wide range of descriptive titles, primarily, in Hebrew, words such as El which can be modified with descriptive add-ons such as Elohim. There is also Jehovah, which is a crude rendering of the tetragrammaton JHVH.

 

[goldenboy]

[QUOTE="The Liturgist, post: 75077716, member: 424341

This error on the part of the KJV translators has been a disaster, because it has propagated the false belief that Isaiah 14 refers to the devil (due to Milton and Dante), which was rejected by both Martin Luther and John Calvin, not to mention a number of church fathers. It also makes no sense, because why translate from Hebrew into Latin? We can say for certain that even if Isaiah 14 does refer to the devil, Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but rather, a mere translation of the name.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that it was really an error on the part of the translators. They followed standard protocols for compilation of the text, and production of the work. Any reading of the text doesn't lead one to believe that Lucifer is the Devil, and it is only commentators who are to blame, not the KJV translators.

Otherwise, thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading it, and shall save it for future perusal! (Plus, I can show off by referencing the info in it!)

 

[Hawkins]

No it doesn’t. Luficer is a Latin word, and none of the Latin church fathers of the Patristic age, including those who interpreted Isaiah 14 as referring to Satan rather than Nebuchadnezzar, used the word Lucifer to refer to the devil.

Lucifer fell from heaven because of his pride (Jerome). The enemy is a fallen being of light. The one fallen from heaven cannot be Nebuchadnezzar or any other human being (Origen). Lucifer descended from better to worse in his fall from heaven (Eusebius). Lucifer fell from heaven because he wanted to be like God (Jerome). Pride was the reason for Lucifer’s fall (Augustine). Nebuchadnezzar was destroyed because of his pride (Aphrahat). Lucifer fell not because of any sinful actions but because of his prideful tongue (Jerome, Ambrose, John Cassian). Death comes to all, showing the limitation of human pride (Chrysostom). The devil, a robber and accuser, can find no fault in Christ (Augustine), nor can he take the exalted place of God (Cassiodorus). God’s wrath on obstinate sinners is unbearable (Verecundus). God uses even bad circumstances for good, and his will prevails (Chrysostom). The flying serpent, or basilisk, can destroy even from a distance (Gregory the Great). Christians must guard against the sin of pride (Ambrose).

Origen:
It is most clearly proved by these words that he who formerly was Lucifer and who “arose in the morning” has fallen from heaven. For if, as some suppose, he was a being of darkness, why is he said to have formerly been Lucifer or lightbearer? Or how could he “rise in the morning” who had in him no light at all?… So he was light once … when “his glory was turned into dust.” On First Principles 1.5.

How can we possibly suppose that what is said in many places by Scripture, especially in Isaiah, about Nebuchadnezzar is said about a human being? For no human being is said to have “fallen from heaven” or to have been “Lucifer” or the one who “arose every morning.” On First Principles 4.3.9.


The term Lucifer is taken in early translations (mostly from Vulgate I guess, as mentioned by Jerome) instead of a more literal and direct "morning star" in Hebrew because church fathers doubt that "morning star" is a correct understanding, especially as expressed by Origen.

Jerome:
For greater ease of understanding we translated this phrase as follows: “How you have fallen from heaven, Lucifer, who arose in the morning.” (instead of "morning star")


Till Augustine, it seems that a firm consensus is reached that Lucifer is the devil.

Augustine:
For example, what is said in Isaiah, “How he is fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning!” and the other statements in that context that speak of the king of Babylon are of course to be understood of the devil.

 

[The Liturgist]

Lucifer fell from heaven because of his pride (Jerome). The enemy is a fallen being of light. The one fallen from heaven cannot be Nebuchadnezzar or any other human being (Origen). Lucifer descended from better to worse in his fall from heaven (Eusebius). Lucifer fell from heaven because he wanted to be like God (Jerome). Pride was the reason for Lucifer’s fall (Augustine). Nebuchadnezzar was destroyed because of his pride (Aphrahat). Lucifer fell not because of any sinful actions but because of his prideful tongue (Jerome, Ambrose, John Cassian). Death comes to all, showing the limitation of human pride (Chrysostom). The devil, a robber and accuser, can find no fault in Christ (Augustine), nor can he take the exalted place of God (Cassiodorus). God’s wrath on obstinate sinners is unbearable (Verecundus). God uses even bad circumstances for good, and his will prevails (Chrysostom). The flying serpent, or basilisk, can destroy even from a distance (Gregory the Great). Christians must guard against the sin of pride (Ambrose).

Origen:
It is most clearly proved by these words that he who formerly was Lucifer and who “arose in the morning” has fallen from heaven. For if, as some suppose, he was a being of darkness, why is he said to have formerly been Lucifer or lightbearer? Or how could he “rise in the morning” who had in him no light at all?… So he was light once … when “his glory was turned into dust.” On First Principles 1.5.

How can we possibly suppose that what is said in many places by Scripture, especially in Isaiah, about Nebuchadnezzar is said about a human being? For no human being is said to have “fallen from heaven” or to have been “Lucifer” or the one who “arose every morning.” On First Principles 4.3.9.


The term Lucifer is taken in early translations (mostly from Vulgate I guess, as mentioned by Jerome) instead of a more literal and direct "morning star" in Hebrew because church fathers doubt that "morning star" is a correct understanding, especially as expressed by Origen.

Jerome:
For greater ease of understanding we translated this phrase as follows: “How you have fallen from heaven, Lucifer, who arose in the morning.” (instead of "morning star")


Till Augustine, it seems that a firm consensus is reached that Lucifer is the devil.

Augustine:
For example, what is said in Isaiah, “How he is fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning!” and the other statements in that context that speak of the king of Babylon are of course to be understood of the devil.

I am not altogether disputing the views of the Church Fathers on the devil, but rather that Lucifer is the proper name for the devil, since that name only appears in the Latin Bible. Although it should be noted that the interpretation you offer is a minority interpretation; more common is the Alexandrian idea that the morning star in Isaiah both represents Nebuchadnezzar, and typologically, the Accuser, or that as Martin Luther and John Calvin held, that it was only a reference to Nebuchadnezzar.

Also, remember:

• Origen was condemned as a heretic in the Three Chapters that accompanied the Second Council of Constantinople, along with Theodore of Mopsuestia and Theodoret, a man who in violation of the Apostolic canons did castrate himself, and who contemplated reincarnation / the transmigration of souls and universalism, and according to Epiphanius and Jerome, was responsible for the school of thought that led to Arianism. For this reason unlike Saints Epiphanius, Augustine, Jerome, Ambrose, John Cassian and John Chrysostom, he is not officially venerated.
• Eusebius of Caesarea was also a heretic who supported Arius and Arianism.
• St. Ambrose wrote a hymn in which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is referred to as “Lucifer.”
• None of the other saints you mention refer to the devil as Lucifer.
• Jerome, in the Vulgate, does not use the word lucifer as a proper noun.

The whole point of this thread is that it is absurd to suggest that the devil is properly named Lucifer, because the Evangelists and most theologians of the early church did not even speak Latin, and the few that did did not use the word as a proper name for him, but did use it in reference to Jesus Christ and John the Baptist.

Rather, Dante Allegheri malappropriated the word, along with other Medieval and Renaissance authors whose Latin skill had ... atrophied, and who mainly spoke languages derived from the four main dialects of vulgar Latin. And the King James Version anachronistically used it when translating Isaiah, which was a major error which has been corrected in newer bibles.

The KJV and the Vulgate really aren’t good when it comes to the Old Testament anyway; the Septuagint is more complete and was the preferred choice of the early church. It represents a snapshot of the Old Testament text taken by 70 Jewish translators a few hundred years before the birth of Christ, and in it, the Christological prophecies are much clearer than in the Masoretic Text and other newer Hebraic texts.

 

[The Liturgist]

Satan (the opponent) has multiple descriptive names in the Bible. One that I find amusing is Beelzebub, which literally means "Lord of the flies" and which was the inspiration of the popular novel by that name. Baalzebub was also an idol.

God never reveals His true name in scripture, simply because it is too wonderful (i.e. so glorious that mortal man would perish if he merely spoke it). Instead, God is known by a wide range of descriptive titles, primarily, in Hebrew, words such as El which can be modified with descriptive add-ons such as Elohim. There is also Jehovah, which is a crude rendering of the tetragrammaton JHVH.

Actually the true names of God the Father and God the Son are revealed; JHVH is known to be pronounced “Yahweh” which means, as explained in Exodus, “I AM THAT I AM.” Jesus is an Hellenization of Joshua, which means “Yahweh Saves.”

 

[bbbbbbb]

Actually the true names of God the Father and God the Son are revealed; JHVH is known to be pronounced “Yahweh” which means, as explained in Exodus, “I AM THAT I AM.” Jesus is an Hellenization of Joshua, which means “Yahweh Saves.”

Quite true.