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12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit

If you read Isaiah 14:1-12 it would be clear these verses refer not to the devil but to Nebuchadnezzar, as Martin Luther and John Calvin pointed out.

But if we accept that both Luther and Calvin were wrong and so were all the church fathers except St. Augustine, Origen and Tertullian, Lucifer still would not be the name of the devil, because the correct translation of those verses is:

12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
14 “I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
15 Bur you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.

- New International Version (1984 Edition, e.g. the good one)
 
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Multitudes worldwide are worshiping a being called Lucifer. In the context of the Scripture
the being Lucifer who desires worship is leading people to worship Lucifer instead of Jesus Christ. somehow you cannot connect the dots that if you worship Lucifer that's satanic.

That is completely false. If you worship anyone other than Jesus Christ, it is Satanic. However, Jesus Christ is referred to as Lucifer in the hymns mentioned in the OP written by Hilary of Poitiers and Ambrose of Milan, among others, and other Latin hymns refer to John the Baptist (who is not to be worshipped as he is not God) as Lucifer.

The 2 billion Roman Catholics and 150 million Lutherans and Anglicans use the hymns in question are not worshipping the “Lucifer” by which I mean the devil, who is popularly but incorrectly called Lucifer.

Conversely, people who do worship “Lucifer” are not only engaging in the sin of devil worship (and all non-Christian worship and idolatry is devil worship; Psalm 95:5 in the Septuagint reads “The Gods of the Gentiles are Devils”; in the Masoretic Text the equivalent verse, Psalm 96:5, reads “The Gods of the Gentiles are Idols”, so we can say a full reading of verse 5 from this Psalm is “The idols the gentiles worship as gods are devils”), but of blasphemy, because they are appropriating an appelation of Christ and John the Baptist and referring to the devil using that appelation. Since only Christ is the Light of the World and can be accurately called “the bearer of light.”

The devil is of darkness and cannot tolerate Light.
 
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Refirened

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That is completely false. If you worship anyone other than Jesus Christ, it is Satanic. However, Jesus Christ is referred to as Lucifer in the hymns mentioned in the OP written by Hilary of Poitiers and Ambrose of Milan, among others, and other Latin hymns refer to John the Baptist (who is not to be worshipped as he is not God) as Lucifer.

The 2 billion Roman Catholics and 150 million Lutherans and Anglicans use the hymns in question are not worshipping the “Lucifer” by which I mean the devil, who is popularly but incorrectly called Lucifer.

Conversely, people who do worship “Lucifer” are not only engaging in the sin of devil worship (and all non-Christian worship and idolatry is devil worship; Psalm 95:5 in the Septuagint reads “The Gods of the Gentiles are Devils”; in the Masoretic Text the equivalent verse, Psalm 96:5, reads “The Gods of the Gentiles are Idols”, so we can say a full reading of verse 5 from this Psalm is “The idols the gentiles worship as gods are devils”), but of blasphemy, because they are appropriating an appelation of Christ and John the Baptist and referring to the devil using that appelation. Since only Christ is the Light of the World and can be accurately called “the bearer of light.”

The devil is of darkness and cannot tolerate Light.

It doesn't change the fact that Lucifer is known as a name of the devil. You denying facts doesn't change the fact that high profile Satanists worship Lucifer instead of Jesus. You're just basically helping a satanic deity to transform itself into something good. Theirs one name given for man to be saved and that is not Lucifer. I don't agree with Catholic doctrine either.

I'll keep posting links to different dictionaries to show the facts.

Lucifer
noun

UK

/ˈluː.sɪ.fər/ US

/ˈluː.sə.fɚ/

name for Satan (= a powerful evil force and the enemy of God)

Lucifer | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
(Revelation 22:16) Jesus is the morning star

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." (Revelation 2:26-28) Those who overcome are given Jesus.

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:7) The morning stars are compared to sons of God, and likely refer either to angels, or saints, or both.

"How you’ve fallen from heaven, morning star, son of dawn! You are cut down to earth, helpless on your back!" (Isaiah 14:11) A sarcastic reference to the king of Babylon, comparing him, formerly, to a thing of glory.

You denying facts doesn't change the fact that high profile Satanists worship Lucifer instead of Jesus.
They call the devil "Lord," and they seek to give him all titles belonging to our Lord and Savior. Now, either you can adopt their blasphemous terminology, or you can deny it. I'm not a Satanist, so I think I'll excuse myself from their lexicon.
 
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JackRT

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It doesn't change the fact that Lucifer is known as a name of the devil. You denying facts doesn't change the fact that high profile Satanists worship Lucifer instead of Jesus.

That tells me that the Satanists are just as misinformed about the meaning of "Lucifer" as those Christians who think it refers to the Devil.
 
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Refirened

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"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
(Revelation 22:16) Jesus is the morning star

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star." (Revelation 2:26-28) Those who overcome are given Jesus.

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:7) The morning stars are compared to sons of God, and likely refer either to angels, or saints, or both.

"How you’ve fallen from heaven, morning star, son of dawn! You are cut down to earth, helpless on your back!" (Isaiah 14:11) A sarcastic reference to the king of Babylon, comparing him, formerly, to a thing of glory.


They call the devil "Lord," and they seek to give him all titles belonging to our Lord and Savior. Now, either you can adopt their blasphemous terminology, or you can deny it. I'm not a Satanist, so I think I'll excuse myself from their lexicon.

You worship Lucifer then which according to the fact is connected with the devil and ill worship Jesus. Names are important.


Acts 4:10-12

10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.​
 
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Jermayn

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In reading a thread on whether or not our Lord Jesus Christ is actually St. Michael the Archangel (he isn’t), I came across this post, which I felt interesting enough to warrant a thread, as I believe, as did Martin Luther and John Calvin, that this is a grave mistake and also points to one of the few errors in the KJV translation, which is otherwise my favorite English edition of the Bible.



No it doesn’t. Luficer is a Latin word, and none of the Latin church fathers of the Patristic age, including those who interpreted Isaiah 14 as referring to Satan rather than Nebuchadnezzar, used the word Lucifer to refer to the devil.

In fact, there is a fourth century Christian saint named Lucifer! St. Lucifer of Cagliari was the Bishop of Cagliaria in Sardinia, who is venerated in Sardinia for his stance against the Arian heresy. And St. Jerome, the translator of the Vulgate, had a major beef with St. Lucifer over Origen, whom the Sardinian bishop admired and Jerome regarded as a heretic, but never took a low blow against St. Lucifer for that.

Lucifer was not an uncommon name among Romans and I recall reading of a Christian martyr in the second century who was also named Lucifer.

In the middle ages, Roman Catholic demonologists who only used the Vulgate Bible, which by the way does not use Lucifer as a proper noun, since the word literally is the Latin word for “morning star” and was translated correctly by St. Jerome, proposed that Lucifer was a proper name for Satan. Others took the view that Lucifer, Beezlebub and Satan were three different entities.

In the Canaanite religion and several other Semitic Pagan religions had a story of a god or goddess associated with the morning star trying to seize the throne of Baal and being cast down; in Canaanism the deity who attempted this, Attar, failing to assume the thrown of Baal, descended to and ruled the underworld. These stories are likely examples of how the devil spreads confusion by creating religions similiar to Nicene Christianity, or in its pre-incarnational form, the congregation of Israel, and these stories pop up centuries or millenia later to cause confusion. More recent examples of false religions superficially similiar to Christianity are the Bahai Faith, Unitarianism and the Unitarian Universalist Association, the New Church (Swedenborgianism), Spiritualism, the Moonies, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and worst of all, the People’s Temple (Jim Jones, of Jonestown, who poisoned the kool-aid).

So, Dante in his Inferno decided to call the devil Lucifer, and Milton, doubtless referencing that, in his work Paradise Lost employed the same name. Milton also was doubtless influenced by the one of the few major mistakes in the King James Version, which was the translation of “Morning Star” from the Hebrew into Lucifer, instead of “Morning Star”, a rare example of the King James translators departing from the principle of textual equivalence in favor of dynamic equivalence.

This error on the part of the KJV translators has been a disaster, because it has propagated the false belief that Isaiah 14 refers to the devil (due to Milton and Dante), which was rejected by both Martin Luther and John Calvin, not to mention a number of church fathers. It also makes no sense, because why translate from Hebrew into Latin? We can say for certain that even if Isaiah 14 does refer to the devil, Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but rather, a mere translation of the name.

Rather, if Luther, Calvin, and numerous church fathers are wrong, and Origen and Tertullian, both anathematized heretics, and the Bogomils and Cathars* (who were Gnostic heretics who also believed that the devil was named Lucifer), are right, then the most correct translation of this alleged original name of Satan would be Helel ben Shachar, because that is the phrase in Isaiah 14 translated as Lucifer. It certainly would not be a word from a language that the early Church did not even use in worship, or bother translating the Bible into, until the second century.**

I would note the only legitimate Church Father who was not a heretic who considered Isaiah 14 to refer to the devil was St. Augustine of Hippo, who was greatly admired by Luther and Calvin, who nonetheless disagreed with him on this and many other issues, but Augustine never referred to the devil as Lucifer. And why not? Because St. Augustine, being a scholar, would have read Isaiah as much from the Greek Septuagint as from the Vulgate, and also knew the Vulgate was not using Lucifer as a proper noun, but was a mere translation of the Hebrew. And St. Augustine had an even more compelling reason to not refer to the devil as Lucifer, more compelling than respect for St. Lucifero the Martyr and St. Lucifer the Bishop of Cagliari, the fact that John the Baptist and indeed our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ are referred to as the morning star in various ancient Latin hymns, thus, calling them Lucifer, including Aeterne rerum conditor a hymn written by St. Ambrose of Milan, which refers to our Lord Jesus Christ as the Morning Star, as Lucifer. St. Ambrose of Milan was St. Augustine’s mentor and catechist, who persuaded him to convert to Christianity from Manichaean Gnosticism, and who baptized him into the Church; the two great Latin fathers even wrote a hymn together, the famed Te Deum Laudamus, which is one of the most popular hymns and is also one of the canticles sung in Morning Prayer in the Church of England.

St. Hilary of Poitiers, another church father, who is considered along with St. Athanasius of Alexandria to be one of the two staunchest opponents of the heresy of Arius, who denied the deity of Jesus Christ and considered him a creature, wrote the hymn Lucis largitor splendide, which also refers to our Lord Jesus Christ as the Morning Star, in Latin, and thus as Lucifer, which St. Augustine would also have been familiar with, given that the Church during Augustine’s career as a writer in the 5th century regarded Athanasius of Alexandria and Hilary of Poitiers as heroes for their role in fighting Arianism, almost by themselves, during the dark years following the death of Emperor Constantine, when Arianism replaced Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire and Athanasius was exiled from his native Egypt to Trier, then the main base of the crumbling Western Empire’s increasingly unsuccessful military operations against invading Germanic tribes, and Hilary of Poitiers was his only deeply committed faithful friend and supporter who absolutely refused the idea of any compromise with the Arians.

In conclusion, based on the entirety of the evidence, we can say that Scripture does not reveal the original name of Satan to be Lucifer. It is possible his name was Helel ben Schahar, but not Lucifer, a Latin word referring to the Morning Star, which was used by two of the most pious Christians of the fourth century, St. Ambrose of Milan and St. Hilary of Poitiers, to refer to our lord and savior Jesus Christ, and a word which St. Augustine, the only orthodox Church Father who believed Isaiah 14 referred to the devil, and not Nebuchadnezzar, did not use when discussing that passage. Because indeed he was catechized and baptized by St. Ambrose, who did refer to our Lord as the Morning Star in a Latin hymn. Rather, as Martin Luther and John Calvin insisted, Isaiah 14 refers to Nebuchadnezzar and has nothing to do with our adversary the evil one, “the prince of the power of the air.”***

Does the devil even have a name? Satan, the accuser, is not really a name. Perhaps one could argue the evil one, having rejected God, has destroyed his person to the point where he has no name, only job descriptions.

* The Bogomils had a false Gnostic Gospel, which survives, in which the devil is referred to as Lucifer: Book of the Secret Supper - Wikipedia This book was adopted by the Cathars, who were Gnostics who abhorred marriage (a Cathar who received the Consolamenum and became a member of the Perfecti, their spiritual elite, as all who were unmarried were encouraged to do, vowed to not marry, as procreation was a sin in the Cathar faith, a view common to other Gnostic sects such as Manichaeanism.

** The Church in Rome worshipped in Greek until the reign of Archbishop Victor in the late second century AD, who, to reach the less educated Romans, the city’s poor, who did not know Greek, very commendably instituted Latin worship and commissioned the original Latin Bible, known today as the Vetus Latina. This translation was directly translated from the Greek Septuagint and the Greek New Testament and was written in exquisite Classical Latin, and phrases from it remain in use in Christian worship in the Western churches to this day, most notably, Gloria in Exclesis Deo. There were known errors in the Vetus Latina, and as a result St. Jerome was commissioned by his Archbishop of Rome (an office later styled as Pope), to translate a more accurate Latin Bible; Jerome did this, translating directly from Hebrew and Aramaic texts where they were available. His Vulgate is translated into the somewhat more vernacular Latin of the fourth century, which was already in the process of breaking up into four languages which would be the ancestors of French and Waloonian, Spanish and Portuguese, the numerous languages of Italy, and Romanian, Dalamatian and Arromanian. An example of the stylistic decline of the Vulgate vs. the Vetus Latina is demonstrated by it rendering “Glory to God in the Highest” as Gloria in Altissimus Deo, rather than Gloria in Excelsis Deo.

*** In some Eastern Orthodox monasteries, this is interpreted literally, and the brethren are strongly discouraged from gazing at the sky, because of the risk of falling into delusion due to the activities of the devil.

If I remember correctly, the word "phospheros" was used as a translation for 6 or 7 different Hebrew words. I believe as the Greek Lexicon was being translated into the Latin Vulgate, this would have caused some contradiction, specifically the same name being used for Jesus and Satan, so they just stuck with Lucifer, which people of that time were already familiar with as being THE Satan. In actuality, the term "Lucifer" more closely describes Jesus because Jesus is described as the bright and morning star in the Revelation. The fallen angel we know as Lucifer today was actually called Haylel (may have spelled that wrong) in the OT, which really translates to "the howling one" or "the proud/boastful one". Ultimately, it doesn't really matter though as meanings of words change over time. We know Jesus is the son of God and we know Lucifer as the cherub who rebelled against him now, so it doesn't really cause any confusion even if it was translated a little weird back in the day.
 
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Refirened

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That tells me that the Satanists are just as misinformed about the meaning of "Lucifer" as those Christians who think it refers to the Devil.

You need to write to every dictionary publisher around the world and inform them. If only you had been to help all these people throughout history hey.
 
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Refirened

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If I remember correctly, the word "phospheros" was used as a translation for 6 or 7 different Hebrew words. I believe as the Greek Lexicon was being translated into the Latin Vulgate, this would have caused some contradiction, specifically the same name being used for Jesus and Satan, so they just stuck with Lucifer, which people of that time were already familiar with as being THE Satan. In actuality, the term "Lucifer" more closely describes Jesus because Jesus is described as the bright and morning star in the Revelation. The fallen angel we know as Lucifer today was actually called Haylel (may have spelled that wrong) in the OT, which really translates to "the howling one" or "the proud/boastful one".

Isaiah 14:12-15

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
 
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Isaiah 14:12-15

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.



You see why it makes no sense to say that

What part doesn't make sense?
 
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Jermayn

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JackRT

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You need to write to every dictionary publisher around the world and inform them. If only you had been to help all these people throughout history hey.

Alas and alack, I was born too late. But that was not my fault.;)
 
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Jermayn

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To connect the morning star/son of the morning mentioned in Isaiah 14:12-15 with Jesus makes no sense at all. Its referring to the fall of satan who is Lucifer.

You're using an English translation. In the original Hebrew, that verse mentioned nothing about a star or morning. The Hebrew word used was Haylel, which translates to either "the howling one" or "the proud/boastful one".
 
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You're using an English translation. In the original Hebrew, that verse mentioned nothing about a star or morning. The Hebrew word used was Haylel, which translates to either "the howling one" or "the proud/boastful one".


I'm just going to leaves links here to accredited sources. Post links to accredited sources.

H1966 - heylel - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

הֵילֵל hêylêl, hay-lale'; from H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:—lucifer.
 
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