'Love your neighbor less than yourself'; Theologians push back on JD Vance’s view of ‘ordered love’

[2PhiloVoid]

To you, I didn't think so, but to the YouTube uploader, it clearly was.

Part of the problem, is that her point hasn't been made yet when the video ends, nor has the full story in "Mark" about the woman from the long-destroyed city of Tyre been fully presented (the latter, as best I can tell).

She said enough to discern her trajectory, and it was clearly lopsided in interpretation.

That seems to be the consensus position on the passage, but I don't have any particular position on that.

mmmm.

I don't think we got that far into the sermon.

Sometimes, it only takes a sound bite to see where it's going.

Different gospels have different perspective on the relationship of the new faith and Judiaism

Which gospels are those? I don't think I noticed a big difference.

I don't know what "Shema" is and I am not a humanist so I don't know their philosophy about religion and politics, but as someone dedicated to secular government (religiously) I don't have any expectations that religion must be completely removed from politics. (The operation of government, yes, but that is a different issue.) My preference is that religious beliefs would not be part of human society, but I'm just going to have to stick to imagining that for now.

The Shema essentially says---God comes first, then neighbor. There's a priority there.

I leave settling that to those tied as such.

I guess I'll just wait for the Big Authority to come by who will tell me that Deontology must trump an Ethics of Care.

 

[Michie]

Well, and there's that whole prophecy thing that might have had a small part.

Goes without saying. That was His mission. Not much to do with being a political activist. But those people helped bring it all to fruition. Their headspace was occupied by politics and Jesus was here furthering the Kingdom of God.

 

[Fantine]

All part of the "Seamless Garment" Cardinal Bernadine spoke of. But of course that got politicize and distorted.
The main point is that as faithful people of God we ought not try to pick and choose which issues on which we will listen to the magisterium and which issue we will ignore that teaching voice.

I struggle with this also.

Neither of the main parties has a record that is completely in sync with the Catholic Church. Pope Francis said that both Biden and Trump supported evils. He has also said that the Church should inform consciences, not replace them. When politics trump faith

I remember sitting behind the organ at Church right before the 2016 election, and listening to the pastor quote that phrase and reference that article in his homily.

I released all the anger against the "holier than thou" Catholics who criticized Democrats. I realized I didn't have to vote for a tax-cheating sexually abusing golden-toilet owning candidate whose idea of "social justice" was "he who dies with the most toys wins." I didn't have to vote for someone whose speeches made me physically ill---and which have gotten worse over time.

And in 2024, when Pope Francis linked the two candidates as both being imperfect, I felt absolutely no guilt voting against the one whose imperfections were monumentally substantial.

 

[Hans Blaster]

She said enough to discern her trajectory, and it was clearly lopsided in interpretation.

Not to me. I don't know the story she is talking about or how it ends. Given the framing of the YT poster, I was trying not to be influence by their strong opinion.

mmmm.

Mmmm, what? The prior posts indicated some "consensus interpretation of this story".

Sometimes, it only takes a sound bite to see where it's going.

I'm just not as good at reading between the lines as you are I guess.

Which gospels are those? I don't think I noticed a big difference.

The ones at the beginning of the NT. Do not the scholars speak of ones that are written for a gentile or Jewish audience? The relationship between both could be seen different in the interaction between Jesus and the woman from Tyre and how this story might be handled by the later gospel authors. That was all.

The Shema essentially says---God comes first, then neighbor. There's a priority there.

I am familiar with the version from St. Vince: "God, Family and the Green Bay Packers -- in that order."

I guess I'll just wait for the Big Authority to come by who will tell me that Deontology must trump an Ethics of Care.

Whatever dentation authority you need, I guesss.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

the Church should inform consciences, not replace them

I like that. True no candidate is perfect. We will usually vote with something less than enthusiasm.

 

[rjs330]

I think some people would be surprised to actually read the Bible and find that Jesus was quite "Woke" when it came to talking about poverty and wealth.

Lol, Jesus wasnt woke at all. Even when dealing with poverty and wealth.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Yep, Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, I would be proud to welcome Him to the Republican Party, just have to do something about the name, sounds too ethnic.

 

[rjs330]

Yep, Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, I would be proud to welcome Him to the Republican Party, just have to do something about the name, sounds too ethnic.

Only if you pronounce the J as an H and use the long U.

 

[rjs330]

And in 2024, when Pope Francis linked the two candidates as both being imperfect, I felt absolutely no guilt voting against the one whose imperfections were monumentally substantial.

And you should not be so critical of those who chose to have no guilt voting against a person and Party who was just as monumentally corrupt and immoral as you thought the other party was.

We all made a choice on what we felt was the worse and was worse for America.

You certainly were not more righteous for your vote and I wasn't more righteous than you for mine.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Only if you pronounce the J as an H and use the long U.

I did like the way the preacher at Shady Grove Baptist Church near Cullman Alabama pronounced it in the 80s, Jeuh-ease-uhs.

 

[Valletta]

Neither of the main parties has a record that is completely in sync with the Catholic Church. Pope Francis said that both Biden and Trump supported evils. He has also said that the Church should inform consciences, not replace them. When politics trump faith

I remember sitting behind the organ at Church right before the 2016 election, and listening to the pastor quote that phrase and reference that article in his homily.

I released all the anger against the "holier than thou" Catholics who criticized Democrats. I realized I didn't have to vote for a tax-cheating sexually abusing golden-toilet owning candidate whose idea of "social justice" was "he who dies with the most toys wins." I didn't have to vote for someone whose speeches made me physically ill---and which have gotten worse over time.

And in 2024, when Pope Francis linked the two candidates as both being imperfect, I felt absolutely no guilt voting against the one whose imperfections were monumentally substantial.

Pope Francis was entitled to his own political opinions. As to the two major parties, the Democratic Party platform on abortion is in direct opposition to Catholic Church teaching on abortion.

 

[Fantine]

The monumental corruption is all Trump's. His corrupt Congressional cronies unsuccessfully try to invent scenarios that Biden was 1% as corrupt.
Abortion is far from the only issue the Catholic Church teaches on. Maybe in the US it gets a lot of attention, in our materialistic comfort and greed, but the rest of the world doesn't have the luxury of pretending the long list of monstrous evils are unimportant.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

And you should not be so critical of those who chose to have no guilt voting against a person and Party who was just as monumentally corrupt and immoral as you thought the other party was.

We all made a choice on what we felt was the worse and was worse for America.

You certainly were not more righteous for your vote and I wasn't more righteous than you for mine.

I think it disturbing that we can have such different views on wat is good for America... and the world.
In just over 100 days I hardly recognize us and I grieve.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I think it disturbing that we can have such different views on wat is good for America... and the world.
In just over 100 days I hardly recognize us and I grieve.

I just got back from my late night walmart shopping trip. For the first time ever I could not find fresh corn on the cob for Mothers Day. None of the three grocery stores in my town had any. Weird. Must be Biden's fault.

 

[Michie]

I just got back from my late night walmart shopping trip. For the first time ever I could not find fresh corn on the cob for Mothers Day. None of the three grocery stores in my town had any. Weird. Must be Biden's fault.

We have it here, I was just there today to pick up some flowers to plant. They had it for 50 cents an ear. My local grocery had it as well.

 

[rjs330]

I did like the way the preacher at Shady Grove Baptist Church near Cullman Alabama pronounced it in the 80s, Jeuh-ease-uhs.

You do? Man that really dates you.

 

[rjs330]

I think it disturbing that we can have such different views on wat is good for America... and the world.
In just over 100 days I hardly recognize us and I grieve.

Its been coming for a very long time as the left just kept moving further and further. Remember when the left just wanted abortion to be safe legal and rare. The Democrats didnt support gay marriage and were for more restricted immigration.

Look how far we've come from that. Further and further left. There was bound to be a great divide at some point when many Americans said enough.

 

[Valletta]

The monumental corruption is all Trump's. His corrupt Congressional cronies unsuccessfully try to invent scenarios that Biden was 1% as corrupt.
Abortion is far from the only issue the Catholic Church teaches on. Maybe in the US it gets a lot of attention, in our materialistic comfort and greed, but the rest of the world doesn't have the luxury of pretending the long list of monstrous evils are unimportant.

It is more the lack of a sense of sin than attention.

 

[Fantine]

It is more the lack of a sense of sin than attention.

You are right. Americans don't realize their overuse of energy and wastefulness cause climate catastrophes and famines in the global south, killing millions.
They lack empathy for people who are different from them--immigrants, LGBTQ, people of different races.
Their knee jerk reaction: condemn, punish, deport, pat selves on back for their goodness.
I challenge anyone to find a Bible verse where Jesus lacks empathy.
And yet holier-than-thou self-righteous Americans pretend to follow him.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

You do? Man that really dates you.

June, 1984, 40th anniversary of D-day, Vacation Bible School, yes old. Ancient to my daughter.