'Love your neighbor less than yourself'; Theologians push back on JD Vance’s view of ‘ordered love’

[Akita Suggagaki]

Christians who support Trump are Christians too.

We must all be careful not to dress our political views in religious attire.
Part of the reason I stay Catholic is because it challenges me on some things I disagree with.
The Catholic position is neither Left Nor Right, GOP nor Dem. That is why I have such trouble at election time.
No candidate checks all the boxes, except maybe the Solidarity part, but they have no chance.

I have high hopes for this Pope. He is very intelligent and well spoken. I think he will chooses his words carefully.
I look forward to his first messages and encyclicals.
He is described as a centrist.

 

[Michie]

I think it important to remember there is no desperation of church and state back then.
If you're calling out your religious leaders, which Jesus was, you were acting on politics.
If you strip away the theology, I think it can be concluded it's what got him killed.

They were protecting their politics and social order. That’s what got him crucified.

 

[Say it aint so]

They were protecting their politics and social order. That’s what got him crucified.

Yes. That, and Pilate was not one to be fooled with.

 

[RileyG]

They are both a mixed bag. GOP tends to focus on personal morality while Dems on social justice. Don't you think?

To an extent, I can agree.

 

[RileyG]

Politics are not the faith. Jesus did not teach or act out political action. He called his followers to allegiance with the furthering of the Kingdom of God as the number 1 priority. Christians standing up against those in power for the vulnerable does not turn Jesus or the faith into political activists. It is the world and society that acted politically against Him. They were concerned about the earthly kingdom while He was working for the heavenly kingdom. They crucified Him to protect it. He was crucified because He was offering fallen humanity eternal life. It’s what he came to do.

Indeed. He said his Kingdom is not of this world. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and unto God’s what is God’s.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

We must all be careful not to dress our political views in religious attire.
Part of the reason I stay Catholic is because it challenges me on some things I disagree with.
The Catholic position is neither Left Nor Right, GOP nor Dem. That is why I have such trouble at election time.
No candidate checks all the boxes, except maybe the Solidarity part, but they have no chance.

I have high hopes for this Pope. He is very intelligent and well spoken. I think he will chooses his words carefully.
I look forward to his first messages and encyclicals.
He is described as a centrist.

I think he will be a good Pope. How could he not? He is a Bears fan after all.

 

[RileyG]

I think he will be a good Pope. How could he not? He is a Bears fan after all.

Fascinating! I knew the late Pope Francis, who gave up watching TV in the 90s, was a soccer fan.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It doesn't matter, Philo seems to have detected evidence that she used Critical Theory in her ramblings, which can only mean that she is distorting scripture to advance an atheistic left-liberal agenda.

Additionally, here's a link to something I posted about 4 years ago here on CF. The two sources listed in this old post still apply to my middling meddling with CRT.

What is CRT?

Sure it can be misunderstood, like the bible, or Ikea instructions. That's why discussing it is useful, I think. Cancel culture is pretty annoying, but declarations of the decline of civilization are a bit premature. Personally, I think that confronting inequality directly and thoroughly is...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Fascinating! I knew the late Pope Francis, who gave up watching TV in the 90s, was a soccer fan.

But it is nice to finally have a Pope who enjoys good ol' Murican Football. Not that "fútbol" stuff.

 

[RileyG]

But it is nice to finally have a Pope who enjoys good ol' Murican Football. Not that "fútbol" stuff.

I’m sure some do! I was never into sports! I know! Hersey!

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I’m sure some do! I was never into sports! I know! Hersey!

(With thick Chicago accent)I know someone who from a certain city, located within a certain midwestern state, that starts with "C," ends with "O," and has "HICAG" da middle.

 

[Fantine]

I don’t think the teachings of Jesus perfectly align with either party, in my humble opinion.

And the Pope should speak truth to power all over the world.
Nevertheless, Trump and Vance are huge targets because they are so spectacularly and monstrously immoral.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The issue really isn't about whether she's a woman pastor or not.

To you, I didn't think so, but to the YouTube uploader, it clearly was.

It's her interpretation that is wanting........................................... especially seen from within the context of this thread.

Part of the problem, is that her point hasn't been made yet when the video ends, nor has the full story in "Mark" about the woman from the long-destroyed city of Tyre been fully presented (the latter, as best I can tell).

In that passage, Jesus makes a discerned 'difference' between her culture and that of "those to whom He was sent" [i.e. His Jewish people]. There is a priority there inherent within His message.

That seems to be the consensus position on the passage, but I don't have any particular position on that.

There's also, however, an additional nuance insinuating that even the traditional "enemies of God" can be offered mercy or grace through Christ.

I don't think we got that far into the sermon.

It's just that this prioritization of Jews first, then Gentiles doesn't sit well with folks today,

Different gospels have different perspective on the relationship of the new faith and Judiaism

sort of like how the Shema doesn't sit well with secularists as a prioritization of commitments as it infringes as it does upon the Modern Humanitarian assumption that religious beliefs shouldn't be a part of politics.

I don't know what "Shema" is and I am not a humanist so I don't know their philosophy about religion and politics, but as someone dedicated to secular government (religiously) I don't have any expectations that religion must be completely removed from politics. (The operation of government, yes, but that is a different issue.) My preference is that religious beliefs would not be part of human society, but I'm just going to have to stick to imagining that for now.

Either way, it's an Ethics pretzel.

I leave settling that to those tied as such.

 

[RileyG]

And the Pope should speak truth to power all over the world.
Nevertheless, Trump and Vance are huge targets because they are so spectacularly and monstrously immoral.

The Pope is a spiritual leader and should speak the truth.

 

[RileyG]

(With thick Chicago accent)I know someone who from a certain city, located within a certain midwestern state, that starts with "C," ends with "O," and has "HICAG" da middle.
View attachment 364744

Only been to the airport in Chicago! What an experience! I just hope the locals are kinder

 

[Aryeh Jay]

They were protecting their politics and social order. That’s what got him crucified.

Well, and there's that whole prophecy thing that might have had a small part.

 

[Fantine]

The Pope is a spiritual leader and should speak the truth.

And declaring that the Trump Administration's actions towards immigrants, in particular the father of three, in the US legally, who is languishing in a Salvadoran prison, is immoral; is "the truth."

Surely you are not implying that the Trump Administration is correct in deporting these people to a Salvadoran Gulag without due process, especially those who were not undocumented. Not only Popes Francis and Leo XIV but also the federal district court, and undoubtedly the Supreme Court will concur with the decision.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

And declaring that the Trump Administration's actions towards immigrants, in particular the father of three, in the US legally, who is languishing in a Salvadoran prison, is immoral; is "the truth."

Surely you are not implying that the Trump Administration is correct in deporting these people to a Salvadoran Gulag without due process, especially those who were not undocumented. Not only Popes Francis and Leo XIV but also the federal district court, and undoubtedly the Supreme Court will concur with the decision.

Yes, and when the Pope says that abortion is baby murder and gay marriage is an abomination, it is the truth.

 

[Fantine]

Yes, and when the Pope says that abortion is baby murder and gay marriage is an abomination, it is the truth.

As I said, Popes in the past have freely spoken on moral issues. It is rare that they "call out" a particular world leader.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Yes, and when the Pope says that abortion is baby murder and gay marriage is an abomination, it is the truth.

All part of the "Seamless Garment" Cardinal Bernadine spoke of. But of course that got politicize and distorted.
The main point is that as faithful people of God we ought not try to pick and choose which issues on which we will listen to the magisterium and which issue we will ignore that teaching voice.

I struggle with this also.