Losing the fear of an eternal hell

[2PhiloVoid]

Each of these words are translated as hell in the KJV. As far as I am concerned it matters zilch, the Master consumes them all into Himself. It is the Heavenly Big Gulp.

And there shall be no more curse!

Ok. Thanks for the information about 'Mnemeion.' So, I'll double check with the KJV and see if the translators consistently translated it as 'Hell' as you've advised they have.

 

[public hermit]

Me too.

For anyone interested:
Dictionary: μνημεῖον, -ου, τό
Greek transliteration: mnēmeion
Simplified transliteration: mnemeion

Strong's number:
3419

Definition: monument, memorial, Lk. 11:47; grave, tomb, Mt. 23:39; Mk. 5:2; Lk. 11:44; Jn. 11:17, 31, 38; Acts 13:29

Greek-English Concordance for μνημεῖον​

Matthew 8:28	And when he came to the other side, to the region of the Gadarenes, there met him two demoniacs coming out from the tombs (mnēmeiōn | μνημείων | gen pl neut). They were so violent that no one could pass by that way.
Matthew 23:29	“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the graves (mnēmeia | μνημεῖα | acc pl neut) of the righteous,
Matthew 27:52	the tombs (mnēmeia | μνημεῖα | nom pl neut) were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
Matthew 27:53	After his resurrection they came out of the tombs (mnēmeiōn | μνημείων | gen pl neut) and entered the holy city and appeared to many.
Matthew 27:60	and laid it in his own new tomb (mnēmeiō | μνημείῳ | dat sg neut), which he had cut in the rock. Then he rolled a large stone against the door of the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut) and went away.
Matthew 28:8	So they left the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut) at once, with fear and great joy, and ran to break the news to his disciples.
Mark 5:2	And just as Jesus got out Jesus of the boat, just as there met him from the tombs (mnēmeiōn | μνημείων | gen pl neut) a man with an unclean spirit. unclean
Mark 6:29	When his disciples heard of this, they came and took his corpse and placed it in a tomb (mnēmeiō | μνημείῳ | dat sg neut).
Mark 15:46	So he brought a linen shroud, and taking him down, he wrapped him in the linen shroud and laid him in a tomb (mnēmeiō | μνημείῳ | dat sg neut), which had been hewn out of rock; and he rolled a stone across the entrance of the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut).
Mark 16:2	Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut), the sun having risen.
Mark 16:3	And they were saying to themselves, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?” (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut)
Mark 16:5	And entering the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut), they saw a young man sitting on the right, dressed in a white robe, and they were alarmed.
Mark 16:8	And going outside, they fled from the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut), for trembling and astonishment had taken hold of them. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Luke 11:44	Woe to you! For you are like unmarked tombs (mnēmeia | μνημεῖα | nom pl neut); people walk over them without realizing it.”
Luke 11:47	Woe to you! For you build memorials (mnēmeia | μνημεῖα | acc pl neut) to the prophets, but your fathers killed them.
Luke 23:55	The women who had come with him from Galilee followed along behind and saw the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut), and how his body was laid in it
Luke 24:2	They found the stone rolled away from the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut),
Luke 24:9	And returning from the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut), they told all these things to the eleven and to all the others.
Luke 24:12
Luke 24:22	Moreover, some women of our group astonished us: going to the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut) early in the morning
Luke 24:24	Then some of those who were with us went to the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut), and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.”
John 5:28	Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in their graves (mnēmeiois | μνημείοις | dat pl neut) will hear his voice
John 11:17	Now when Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb (mnēmeiō | μνημείῳ | dat sg neut) for four days.
John 11:31	When the Jews, who were with Mary in the house consoling her saw that she had gotten up quickly and gone out, they followed her, assuming that she was going to the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut) to weep there.
John 11:38	Then Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut). It was a cave, and a stone was lying across it.
John 12:17	The crowd that had been with him when he called Lazarus out of the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut) and raised him from the dead continued to bear witness.
John 19:41	Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden was a new tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | nom sg neut) in which no one had ever yet been laid.
John 19:42	So because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | nom sg neut) was nearby, they laid Jesus there.
John 20:1	Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut), while it was still dark, and she saw the stone removed from the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut).
John 20:2	So she went running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken our Master out of the tomb (mnēmeiou | μνημείου | gen sg neut), and we do not know where they have put him!”
John 20:3	So Peter and the other disciple set out to go to the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut).
John 20:4	The two were running together, but the other disciple ran ahead more quickly than Peter and arrived first at the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut).
John 20:6	Then Simon Peter, who had been behind him, also arrived, and he went right into the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut). He saw the linen wrappings lying there,
John 20:8	Then the other disciple, the one who had arrived first, also went into the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut), and he saw and believed.
John 20:11	But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb (mnēmeiō | μνημείῳ | dat sg neut). As she was weeping she stooped down to look into the tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut).
Acts 13:29	And when they had carried out everything that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb (mnēmeion | μνημεῖον | acc sg neut).

And what happened to all those resurrected folks in Matt. 28:8? Did they die again? Still walking around? That's a remarkable event to get just one line. Strange.

 

[Hmm]

The Hell thread by AnarKiss is pretty great.

"Primates often have trouble imagining a universe not run by an angry alpha male" lol

So true!

I was also quite taken by this quote by Lewis Carroll from the thread:

"When all has been considered, it seems to me to be the irresistible intuition that infinite punishment for finite sin would be unjust, and therefore wrong. We feel that even weak and erring Man would shrink from such an act. And we cannot conceive of God as acting on a lower standard of right and wrong. - Lewis Carroll, "Eternal Punishment," Diversions and Digressions

IRL Lewis Carroll was the Reverend Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, an Anglican clergyman, and this is pretty much saying that he's a universalist. That's good because I've always liked Alice in Wonderland. Pretty random, but I used to live near the village he was born in Cheshire (and drink in the Cheshire Cat pub, thirst being a dangerous thing and all).

 

[atpollard]

IRL Lewis Carroll was the Reverend Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, an Anglican clergyman, and this is pretty much saying that he's a universalist.

I have no idea about the Reverend Charles Lutwidge Dodgson’s theology, but would Annihilation not also avoid his criticism of infinite punishment for finite sin?

(Personally, I think that on a pure philosophical level … rejection of salvation is an eternal sin. The demons have not repented and scripture gives no indication that they ever will, so why would the recidivism rate of the reprobate not also be 100%?)

Hell is more of an eternal quarantine of heaven.

 

[Hmm]

I have no idea about the Reverend Charles Lutwidge Dodgson’s theology, but would Annihilation not also avoid his criticism of infinite punishment for finite sin?

You're right, it would, but I think it's highly unlikely given the overall tone of the quote. And logically, annihilation is also an infinite punishment because its consequence is forever and so would no more be a proportionate punishment for finite sin than ECT would be.

 

[FineLinen]

I have no idea about the Reverend Charles Lutwidge Dodgson’s theology, but would Annihilation not also avoid his criticism of infinite punishment for finite sin?

(Personally, I think that on a pure philosophical level … rejection of salvation is an eternal sin. The demons have not repented and scripture gives no indication that they ever will, so why would the recidivism rate of the reprobate not also be 100%?)

Hell is more of an eternal quarantine of heaven.

Our God loses nothing! He is the End of the all (ta pante}. If we think, for a nano second, gathering up leftover morsels of fish & bread are more vital than bringing lost sinners to His side, we are sadly mistaken.

Nothing is lost until found by the Saviour!

 

[atpollard]

Our God loses nothing! He is the End of the all (ta pante}. If we think, for a nano second, gathering up leftover morsels of fish & bread are more vital than bringing lost sinners to His side, we are sadly mistaken.

Nothing is lost until found by the Saviour!

universa propter semet ipsum operatus est Dominus impium quoque ad diem malum - Proverbs 16:4

 

[FineLinen]

universa propter semet ipsum operatus est Dominus impium quoque ad diem malum - Proverbs 16:4

"God made everything with a place and purpose; even the wicked are included—but for judgment." ~MSG

Everything consummates within our Lord. Krisis is the means whereby we wicked rascals are brought into conformity with the Divine will.

 

[Saint Steven]

As to your point about maintaining the consequence of the Fall, I believe even the wicked will be resurrected and given their bodies.

For what purpose?

 

[didactics]

For what purpose?

I'm not entirely sure, I just know the wicked will be given their bodies. Hebrews 9:27 tells us, And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgement...

For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation.

To be released from death means receiving the gift of salvation He offers.

Ray Comfort, a pastor and evangelist put it this way, “He can commute your death sentence and legally let you live forever, all because Jesus paid the fine for sin in full on that cross.”


If Jesus has the keys to hades, with the intention of releasing those in hell, why doesn’t he do this sometime before his second coming?

 

[Der Alte]

I'm not entirely sure, I just know the wicked will be given their bodies. Hebrews 9:27 tells us, And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgement...
For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation.
To be released from death means receiving the gift of salvation He offers.
Ray Comfort, a pastor and evangelist put it this way, “He can commute your death sentence and legally let you live forever, all because Jesus paid the fine for sin in full on that cross.”
If Jesus has the keys to hades, with the intention of releasing those in hell, why doesn’t he do this sometime before his second coming?

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

Jesus said "Not every one ... shall enter into the kingdom of heaven... Many, [not a few,] will say to me in that day, [judgement day] "Lord, Lord, have we not ... in thy name done many wonderful works?" Then Jesus will "profess unto them, [the many] I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

[Lost Witness]

it's all about the Relationship

 

[Lost Witness]

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

Jesus said "Not every one ... shall enter into the kingdom of heaven... Many, [not a few,] will say to me in that day, [judgement day] "Lord, Lord, have we not ... in thy name done many wonderful works?" Then Jesus will "profess unto them, [the many] I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

it's all about the Relationship

 

[public hermit]

Ray Comfort

Isn't this the banana guy? I guess we all have our sources, and that can't be any worse than an early 1900's Jewish encyclopedia.

 

[Der Alte]

Isn't this the banana guy? I guess we all have our sources, and that can't be any worse than an early 1900's Jewish encyclopedia.

Do you have any other credible, verifiable source for the faith and practices of the Jews before, during and after the time of Jesus? If you do, let your fellow UR-ites know about it. I have been having this discussion right here for 3 decades+ and I haven't seen any similar source which contradicts the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.
How about the 1972 Encyclopedia Judaica?
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:

Gehinnom

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia%20Judaica,%20v.%2007%20(Fey-Gor).pdf

 

[public hermit]

Do you have any other credible, verifiable source for the faith and practices of the Jews before, during and after the time of Jesus? If you do, let your fellow UR-ites know about it. I have been having this discussion right here for 3 decades+ and I haven't seen any similar source which contradicts the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.
How about the 1972 Encyclopedia Judaica?
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:

Gehinnom

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia%20Judaica,%20v.%2007%20(Fey-Gor).pdf

I'm just pulling your chain, Der Alte. I have all the respect for you, even if your sources are as old as sin.

 

[FineLinen]

"For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation."

Salvation is firmly rooted within our God. It is not a heavenly game of chance. The offer is not time sensitive.

God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind, malista those who believe.

Please note:

Especially is not only, (monon or monos).

 

[Der Alte]

I'm just pulling your chain, Der Alte. I have all the respect for you, even if your sources are as old as sin.

That was more a "To whom it may concern" response. Heading off the UR-ite crowd. To forestall them from the usual, "Neener, neener, neener, you're wrong and I'm right! Am too! Nuh huh!," response.

 

[didactics]

Salvation is firmly rooted within our God. It is not a heavenly game of chance. The offer is not time sensitive.

God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind, malista those who believe.

Please note:

Especially is not only, (monon or monos).

Something to keep in mind, though I think only certain people are elect I should tread lightly. Though God knows all whom He wills to save, we don't know and have that insight. That is why the gospel call goes out to everyone, because we shouldn't assume otherwise. Besides, God commanded that the gospel is to go out to everyone in the great commission.

"The Scripture makes very clear that some are not elected to faith, and the great example of that is Judas. Although Judas fellowshipped with Jesus, knew Jesus, and heard Jesus, he was lost because he was a son of perdition and had not been chosen to faith. The reason it is important to believe that is because the Scripture doesn’t teach anything that is not spiritually profitable."
Above quote copied here: https://www.ligonier.org/learn/qas/does-god-predestine-people-to-hell

 

[Lost Witness]

Something to keep in mind, though I think only certain people are elect I should tread lightly. Though God knows all whom He wills to save, we don't know and have that insight. That is why the gospel call goes out to everyone, because we shouldn't assume otherwise. Besides, God commanded that the gospel is to go out to everyone in the great commission.

"The Scripture makes very clear that some are not elected to faith, and the great example of that is Judas. Although Judas fellowshipped with Jesus, knew Jesus, and heard Jesus, he was lost because he was a son of perdition and had not been chosen to faith. The reason it is important to believe that is because the Scripture doesn’t teach anything that is not spiritually profitable."
Above quote copied here: https://www.ligonier.org/learn/qas/does-god-predestine-people-to-hell

Matthew 24:22