losing salvation

[Miracle Storm]

I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.


I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

 

[Standing Up]

You were born-again from above in faith.

And grew.

You can wander away. He'll come look for and find you and bring you back.

Your sins are forgiven through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Go in peace. Join a bible-believing church.

And grow again.

 

[Rhamiel]

nothing can make you loose God's love
but you can loose salvation, if you do not live for Christ, then you live for yourself, sins show that you live for yourself, we all make mistakes, but God is slow to anger and quick to forgive

 

[Christfan]

You are going to get answers from both sides. What I say to NON-OSAS people is if salvation is not gained through works, how could it be lost by works?

Also Hebrews 6:4-6. I dont see how a NON-OSAS gets around these verses.

 

[Rhamiel]

You are going to get answers from both sides. What I say to NON-OSAS people is if salvation is not gained through works, how could it be lost by works?

Also Hebrews 6:4-6. I dont see how a NON-OSAS gets around these verses.

we do not get life from a gun, but a gun can take away life, we are not saved byy works, but by the Grace of Christ, a better way would be to compare grace to air, if there is no air, we will die, not a thing we can do, not one thing at all you can do if there is no air, now if there is air, you could still hang yourself or some such horrible thing,
if we are once saved always saved, how was Adam able to sin?

 

[lighthouse_hope]

Faith, like many things have seasons and when we are in winter we feel desolate, but winter doesn't mean death, for spring is approaching.

 

[MamaZ]

Sin makes one hide from God.. Not God hide from us.. Is it God you are doubting or is it yourself?

 

[wayseer]

What OSAS? Sounds like some military undercover unit.

 

[Captivated]

I used to have a poster, 'If God feels far away, guess who moved?'

I'm ambivalent about the veracity of OSAS, I can see scriptures that seem to align with both 'sides'. I've filed it in my 'don't know' file and left it up to God who is far better qualified than I am to work it out. My intention is to stick with Him; not solely to be on the safe side regarding salvation but also because I've found it the best place to be.

 

[christianmomof3]

I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.


I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

I am glad that you are turning back to the Lord.
It is actually good that you feel like you know nothing.
Because really, we know nothing.
Now you must rely on the Lord and not on your self.
And He is still there and He has not forsaken you.
When you turned away from the Lord, you lost your enjoyment of Him.
But, He did not leave you.
I suggest that you pray and read the Bible and sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs (and listen to them as well) and gather together with other Christians with whom you can pray and sing and read the Bible and enjoy the Lord.
If you don't have other Christians who you can enjoy the Lord with right not, pray that He will bring you to some companions in Christ.

It is not a matter or OSAS or not. That is just theology and words and winds up being junk that people argue over. All that arguing about who is right about God does not save anyone. Nor does it give Life to anyone.

What gives us Life is Christ Himself. And we enjoy Him by calling upon His name, reading His word, enjoying His presence with other Christians, praying, and singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

You won't get your joy in Christ back by participating in an online arguement about OSAS. So don't worry about that.
Just pray and turn your heart to the Lord and you will not only regain the joy that you had in the Lord in the past, but you will surpass that joy now since you must rely on Him to be your joy.

I am praying for you that you will once again enjoy the Lord.

 

[Faulty]

I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.


I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

OSAS doesn't come into play if the person was never truely born again.Consider the parable of the Sower, Matthew 13:

“A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. He who has ears, let him hear.”
Matt 13:3-9 (ESV)

There are four possibilities here and three lead to destruction.

1. Seeds fell on the path, and the birds devoured them. Explaination v19: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

2. Seeds fell on rocky ground and was scorched. Explaination v20-21: this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away

3. Seeds fell among thorns and were choked. Explaination v22: this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful

4. Seed falls on good soil and is fruitful. Explaination v.23: this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty

The problem here is that you describe yourself as once a believer who fell away and is struggling to come back when the real issue is that you may not have been a true believer, but rather 'rocky ground'. You received the word, endured for a bit and then fell back into the world.

There are a number of passages in the Bible that some cite as proof salvation can be lost, and the all go something like this, "he whe endures to the end shall be saved". They think that proves there is some merit to at least some works on our part to maintain salvation, but the truth is that a true believer does endure to the end. If you do not endure, you were never a believer to begin with.

Notice the seed that fell on the good soil, it says "he bears fruit". How do you know you were 'good soil'? You bear fruit. Simple.

So are you even saved to begin with? That's the real question. Paul declares, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures" 1 Cor 15:3-4

And it's in that hope that we place our faith in the finished work of Jesus on that cross that through Him we have been declared reconciled unto God and declared righteous through His righteousness alone.

"For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God." Romans 5:6-9

 

[Albion]

I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.


I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

Basically, I think that what you have gone through is part of the human condition and that many people have experienced similar journeys. As for what this might have to do with OSAS, I'd say--as one who used NOT to believe it but came to believe in it--that you shouldn't lose sight of the primary point that is what OSAS is all about. Everything is in God's hands. Try not to see the situation as one in which you've lost God's love or didn't match up to his expectations, etc. That is the bugaboo of Freewill theology--that it's all a matter of what we didn't do but could have. You can drive yourself batty worrying that way, and for nothing.

Remember that Jesus told his disciples not to worry. If they were embarking upon a life's journey of doing good, then slipping up, pleasing God, then faling him, it wouldn't make sense NOT to worry about it, about eternal life or of losing it! That seems worth worrying about, doesn't it? Yet Our Lord told us not to worry.

 

[mark46]

I agree with all your comments.

The issue is whether we are saved in the first place (or elect).

Many think that it is the work/decision of walking down the aisle and professing belief that constitutes saving faith and that this same person can now never reject the Lord. It is as if one can choose God but then never reject him.

We are told not to grieve the Holy Spirit (this is an unpardonable sin).

In the end, if we have saving grace, we are elect and bear fruit.

OSAS doesn't come into play if the person was never truely born again.Consider the parable of the Sower, Matthew 13:

“A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. He who has ears, let him hear.”
Matt 13:3-9 (ESV)

There are four possibilities here and three lead to destruction.

1. Seeds fell on the path, and the birds devoured them. Explaination v19: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

2. Seeds fell on rocky ground and was scorched. Explaination v20-21: this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away

3. Seeds fell among thorns and were choked. Explaination v22: this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful

4. Seed falls on good soil and is fruitful. Explaination v.23: this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty

The problem here is that you describe yourself as once a believer who fell away and is struggling to come back when the real issue is that you may not have been a true believer, but rather 'rocky ground'. You received the word, endured for a bit and then fell back into the world.

There are a number of passages in the Bible that some cite as proof salvation can be lost, and the all go something like this, "he whe endures to the end shall be saved". They think that proves there is some merit to at least some works on our part to maintain salvation, but the truth is that a true believer does endure to the end. If you do not endure, you were never a believer to begin with.

Notice the seed that fell on the good soil, it says "he bears fruit". How do you know you were 'good soil'? You bear fruit. Simple.

So are you even saved to begin with? That's the real question. Paul declares, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures" 1 Cor 15:3-4

And it's in that hope that we place our faith in the finished work of Jesus on that cross that through Him we have been declared reconciled unto God and declared righteous through His righteousness alone.

"For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God." Romans 5:6-9

 

[Albion]

The issue is whether we are saved in the first place (or elect).

Many think that it is the work/decision of walking down the aisle and professing belief that constitutes saving faith and that this same person can now never reject the Lord. It is as if one can choose God but then never reject him.

Unfortunately, there are many misunderstandings that well-intentioned people exhibit. What you describe would be a strange way of apprehending the concepts of Election and Eternal Security, I agree.

 

[holyrokker]

I have two questions about "salvation".

1 - Is it possible to have "salvation" without being in relationship with the Father?

2 - Does the Bible place conditions on that relationship?

 

[Albion]

I have two questions about "salvation".

1 - Is it possible to have "salvation" without being in relationship with the Father?

No.

2 - Does the Bible place conditions on that relationship?

It defines what that relationship IS, if that's what your question goes to.

 

[chingchang]

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

I don't believe it is possible to lose salvation:

John 10:28-30 (New International Version)

28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

Sounds to me like once you're in...you're in.

CC

 

[Sojourner1]

I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.


I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

Welcome back
God isn't angry with you. Read the story of the prodigal son and you will see how God feels about you returning to Him. There is nothing you could ever do to lose your salvation. Those who are in Christ are sealed by the Holy Spirit forever. You can wander away and remove yourself from the will of God, but you cannot lose your salvation.

John 1:12,13
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

[squint]

I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.


I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

I'm very fond of SCRIPTURAL FACTS.

The FACT of this matter IS that there is not ONE SINGLE INSTANCE in the entire NEW TESTAMENT where ANYONE is said to have 'ETERNALLY LOST' their SALVATION. NO, not ONE!

That entire methodology is a FEAR MONGERING DEVICE that certain sects USE to control their people WITH FEAR. It is A MAN MADE doctrine. It is A VILE doctrine. And it is a DOCTRINE that is unfortunately practiced in nearly ALL freewill churches.

 

[Dorothea]

I haven't been on CF in a while, to I hope I am putting this in the right place.
I used to believe in once saved always saved, that is when I thought I knew it all...I wish I knew everything i thought i knew then it was much easier..
I went through a phase, I guess you could say where I was an athiest I just stopped being able to believe. Now I believe..sometimes, but at least I struggle to believe and I wonder sometimes if God is just angry with me because I turned away from him. I wonder if I could have lost his love even though I know from my life as a Christian that is not supposed to be possible. It still feels that way though, or that maybe I haven't lost my salvation but he is angry at me so the struggle is that much harder.


I used to love hearing scripture or hearing someone talk about God because I was close to Him now I shy away from the subject because not only do I feel far and unwanted, but I feel like I know nothing.

Anyways what do you think about OSAS, if you don't believe in it what do you believe could cause you to lose your salvation or God's love?

Your example is why it's dangerous to believe in the man-made doctrine of OSAS. Salvation is a journey. You make a commitment daily to believe and follow Christ. Just like you make a commitment to stay married daily. There are times in everyone's life, I believe, where we have times of spiritual drought, or doubts, or struggles/hardships. This is "normal," as a part of working out our salvation, as St. Paul says. We just have to continue down that well-trodden path...follow those righteous before us that finished the race and were crowned by God.

I don't believe God was angry with you. God is always there to welcome you with open arms. He is like the father in the story of the Prodigal son. God is love...and this love is so incomprehensible to our human minds. Just know that He always loves us, no matter what, and to show our love for Him, we follow Him and his Commandments and live the best we can, every day, moving ultimately closer to Him. God bless.