Losing my religion, where is the evidence for God

[Hieronymus]

What does that mean?

He's playing very low notes on his bass guitar.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Ross Woodward]

I don't do the brainwashing, so you're barking up the wrong tree.
And don't be offended. I'm not blaming the brainwashed but the brainwashers.
Classic projection...
But, in all fairness, we all (think we) know things because others told or taught us.
But some question it, some don't.
Usually it's life that causes someone to question things.Of course.
So why don't YOU assert things then?

Err actually you said that if you weren’t brainwashed it screams design and purpose. I had already been very clear that it does not appear to show this to me so you were calling me brainwashed. There is no projection you are just a nasty piece of work who likes to be dishonest about what he is doing. Met your type of bully boy before. Normally they have nothing of any value to say but are very forceful in saying it.

Again we go to you insisting I need to assert something. Why do people who believe they know the answer to things do this? If you had the answer surely you’d provide it rather than insisting I make up something for you to deny. My position is that we do not know. Nobody has presented any actual evidence. Loads of hypotheses but without any evidence to know which if any are true.

If you are just here to insult people and make unevidenced assertions please don’t bother to reply, it’s not advancing anything.

 

[thebelovedofGod]

Hey Ross. Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts brother. God wants us to be honest with how we feel. He has no problem giving us all the proof we need to know that He is real, and that He love us. I suggest you try approach God this way - instead of trying to find evidence for God, try to find evidence for the lack of God. From birth, there is something wired in all of us, an instinctual knowing that God is real. Honestly, it's all about knowing Him. I can list many instances in my life, daily even where I see Him, where He speaks to me, where supernatural things happen. But it's not about those things - it's about His Love! My friend, open your heart, like a child and just ask Him to show Himself real, and alive in your life. He will.

 

[bcbsr]

I have been brought up Church of England here in the UK. Went to Sunday School, CofE primary and Middle. Involved with church based SCout Groups as a Leader. I have been attending church about once a month at my local village church. However I now find myself in a tricky position as I realise I am actually an agnostic atheist.

I have been searching for evidence of Gods existence and can’t find any. Each time I try to find the truth I am merely presented with faith as proof by Christians and the use of presuppositional apologetics, which frankly I find utterly dishonest.

Is there somewhere where I can discuss evidence for God and for the Christian faith with people who may have a similarly rational and evidence based mindset?

See Proof

 

[W2L]

I have been brought up Church of England here in the UK. Went to Sunday School, CofE primary and Middle. Involved with church based SCout Groups as a Leader. I have been attending church about once a month at my local village church. However I now find myself in a tricky position as I realise I am actually an agnostic atheist.

I have been searching for evidence of Gods existence and can’t find any. Each time I try to find the truth I am merely presented with faith as proof by Christians and the use of presuppositional apologetics, which frankly I find utterly dishonest.

Is there somewhere where I can discuss evidence for God and for the Christian faith with people who may have a similarly rational and evidence based mindset?

I need look no further for proof than myself. The fact that i am alive is proof that God exists.

 

[gadar perets]

Parallel lines is math, math is absolute, so that is far easier.

Here is a math problem for you;

nobody + nothing = everything

or, in other words;

no God + nothing in existence = everything that exists

I can't solve this math problem without believing "nobody" is really "somebody".

 

[FIRESTORM314]

If you have to believe without evidence then an honest man would have to believe all claims that anybody ever made about anything until they were disproven. Do you believe satanism to be true? Have you practiced it to discern that it is not? Or are you only applying this principle to your chosen belief?

You can prove it yourself - do as the Bible says - you can KNOW God
Now if you ask me How & you really want to know then we can get you there.

Do you really want to know the Truth?

 

[Ross Woodward]

See Proof

That’s pretty weak. For a start it says:

“Whether one accepts the existence of God or not inevitably results in two basic world views. Either we are the product of creation by God, or our origin is purely naturalistic, based soley on stochastic chemical processes devoid of the supernatural.”

That doesn’t account for my world view that we are just here and completely unable to discern why or how until there is evidence. I accept that humans evolved, but I do not see this as meaning the origins of the universe and of life are absolutely not from a creator. I just have no information from outside of the observable universe with which to deduce that it’s likely, or beyond that which book is his word.

Much of the rest is just claiming the bible to be true again.

 

[Ross Woodward]

You can prove it yourself - do as the Bible says - you can KNOW God
Now if you ask me How & you really want to know then we can get you there.

Do you really want to know the Truth?

How do you know what you believe us true? It shouldn’t be that hard a question to answer.

 

[Hieronymus]

Err actually you said that if you weren’t brainwashed it screams design and purpose. I had already been very clear that it does not appear to show this to me so you were calling me brainwashed.

You know, you're not wrong..
I'm sorry for being blunt.
For what it's worth, i was brainwashed too.
But let's call it "mislead" instead.
I should choose my words more carefully.
But none the less, we get this evolution story pushed down our throats for decades, and nobody reaches us with reasons to doubt it, unless you go look for it.
As a consequence we grow up believing it is science and it is true.
And it starts at a very young age too. It is suggested everywhere.

There is no projection

I think there is.

you are just a nasty piece of work

Yes, sometimes...
Sorry..

who likes to be dishonest about what he is doing.

No. I'm completely honest.

Met your type of bully boy before.

I met your type of nitwit before too.

Normally they have nothing of any value to say but are very forceful in saying it.

Well, i guess that makes two of us then.

Again we go to you insisting I need to assert something. Why do people who believe they know the answer to things do this?

In my case, because i have asserted and made assessments very very thoroughly, over a long period of time.
And obviously there is always much more that one does not know.

If you had the answer surely you’d provide it rather than insisting I make up something for you to deny.

Again, i'm not gonna write a book here.
In a previous post i linked to my playlist for anyone who is interested to go take a look.
Here's the thing:
There are many many pieces of evidence, that by themselves are no proof.
But with gathering evidence a picture forms of the whole thing.
And then you start to see what could be there.
And then you can search more specific to verify things, to make the picture clearer or to correct mistakes in your conclusion.

My position is that we do not know. Nobody has presented any actual evidence. Loads of hypotheses but without any evidence to know which if any are true.

Yes, well, you can repeat saying that, of course, but i don't know if you have looked at it close enough.
So in this topic, i think your question would be: Why do Christians deem the Bible credible (and more credible than other books)?
Because the Christian Faith is based on what's in the Bible.
The evidence is mainly historic.

Have you read my first post in this thread?
I don't want to repeat myself.

If you are just here to insult people and make unevidenced assertions please don’t bother to reply, it’s not advancing anything.

Yeah okay.
But you bare this in mind please:
People here know why they believe, you don't know why they believe.
So you take it easy too.

 

[Dansiph]

That’s pretty weak. For a start it says:

“Whether one accepts the existence of God or not inevitably results in two basic world views. Either we are the product of creation by God, or our origin is purely naturalistic, based soley on stochastic chemical processes devoid of the supernatural.”

That doesn’t account for my world view that we are just here and completely unable to discern why or how until there is evidence. I accept that humans evolved, but I do not see this as meaning the origins of the universe and of life are absolutely not from a creator. I just have no information from outside of the observable universe with which to deduce that it’s likely, or beyond that which book is his word.

Much of the rest is just claiming the bible to be true again.

The thing I'm struggling with and just realised is what were you doing in Church all that time? Just twiddling thumbs thinking maybe God is real. Then one day it was too much? I'm not being confrontational I just don't get it, I can't prove the existence of the Father or the Holy Spirit except from my experience but I can say that when I believed on Christ there was a change. Take from that if you want.

I just can't tell, have you made up your mind? Did you ever Believe on Christ? Acts 16:31

 

[Ross Woodward]

Here is a math problem for you;

nobody + nothing = everything

or, in other words;

no God + nothing in existence = everything that exists

I can't solve this math problem without believing "nobody" is really "somebody".

That’s semantics not math. It is also not the only option. Something not somebody could exist and be the cause. Then there is the possibility that God is omnipotent but ignorant, like a duck that creates a universe every time is quacks but irs completely unaware that he is doing so, let alone doing it with intent or design. Here the thing. It could all just exist. The laws of nature may not apply to the starting point. The matter and energy of the universe could always have been just expanding and contracting to create new layouts of the universe. We do not know, we have no evidence.

So if somebody has evidence then I would like to see it.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

How do you know what you believe us true? It shouldn’t be that hard a question to answer.

Check out how many people said they KNOW God in the bible. I mean KNOW in every sense of the word.

It's a very easy question to answer - but would you believe or accept my answer?
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Taste it for yourself and then you will know.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I have been brought up Church of England here in the UK. Went to Sunday School, CofE primary and Middle. Involved with church based SCout Groups as a Leader. I have been attending church about once a month at my local village church. However I now find myself in a tricky position as I realise I am actually an agnostic atheist.

I have been searching for evidence of Gods existence and can’t find any. Each time I try to find the truth I am merely presented with faith as proof by Christians and the use of presuppositional apologetics, which frankly I find utterly dishonest.

Is there somewhere where I can discuss evidence for God and for the Christian faith with people who may have a similarly rational and evidence based mindset?

what would you accept as "evidence" of God in heaven ?

If you trust the Bible to be an (essentially) accurate record, then how many more miracles (e.g. earthquakes, volcanoes, storms, plagues, fire from heaven) would God have to cause to convince you?

 

[W2L]

If God was not real i would lose my mind. So many mistakes ive made are bearing down on me. Its funny because the world doesnt accept me because of my sin but God accepts me. What an awesome God.

 

[Ross Woodward]

You know, you're not wrong..
I'm sorry for being blunt.
For what it's worth, i was brainwashed too.
But let's call it "mislead" instead.
I should choose my words more carefully.
But none the less, we get this evolution story pushed down our throats for decades, and nobody reaches us with reasons to doubt it, unless you go look for it.
As a consequence we grow up believing it is science and it is true.
And it starts at a very young age too. It is suggested everywhere.
I think there is.Yes, sometimes...
Sorry..No. I'm completely honest.
I met your type of nitwit before too. Well, i guess that makes two of us then.In my case, because i have asserted and made assessments very very thoroughly, over a long period of time.
And obviously there is always much more that one does not know.Again, i'm not gonna write a book here.
In a previous post i linked to my playlist for anyone who is interested to go take a look.
Here's the thing:
There are many many pieces of evidence, that by themselves are no proof.
But with gathering evidence a picture forms of the whole thing.
And then you start to see what could be there.
And then you can search more specific to verify things, to make the picture clearer or to correct mistakes in your conclusion.Yes, well, you can repeat saying that, of course, but i don't know if you have looked at it close enough.
So in this topic, i think your question would be: Why do Christians deem the Bible credible (and more credible than other books)?
Because the Christian Faith is based on what's in the Bible.
The evidence is mainly historic.

Have you read my first post in this thread?
I don't want to repeat myself.Yeah okay.
But you bare this in mind please:
People here know why they believe, you don't know why they believe.
So you take it easy too.

My point is that why they believe does not appear to be based on any evidence that actually shows that it is true and other claims are false. It’s just believed despite a complete lack of real evidence. If that is not the case then evidence should be easy to come by. Which is why I came here.

I’d add that in most cases, including mine, you are taught about a religion way before you are taught about evolution. It is also true that science does not speak othe origins of the universe or on the origin of life. It does not dismiss the hypothesis of a God, though it does clearly say that current evidence does not support young earth creationism, nor many other facets of the Old Testament. But you don’t get onto that stuff until you have been in education for years.

 

[Ross Woodward]

The thing I'm struggling with and just realised is what were you doing in Church all that time? Just twiddling thumbs thinking maybe God is real. Then one day it was too much? I'm not being confrontational I just don't get it, I can't prove the existence of the Father or the Holy Spirit except from my experience but I can say that when I believed on Christ there was a change. Take from that if you want.

I just can't tell, have you made up your mind? Did you ever Believe on Christ? Acts 16:31

I get exactly what you are saying. Your life feels better and you feel more complete. It possibly even makes a difference in positive life outcomes if you were feeling rudderless before your faith. But that Is true for many faiths. I am certain Buddhists feel the same way about their faith even though it has no personal God in it. I go back to homeopathy. Many people believed it had an impact. But it has zero active substances and when tested performs no better than placebo. Positive thinking is a powerful tool and religion certainly provides that with prayer, singing, community, certainty and even in some churches the burning of psycho active drugs like incense that are active against anxiety.

It’s easy to believe. I just started to question why I did so. Then realised it wasn’t because I knew it to be true.

 

[gadar perets]

Then there is the possibility that God is omnipotent but ignorant, like a duck that creates a universe every time is quacks but irs completely unaware that he is doing so, let alone doing it with intent or design.

Oy vey!

 

[Erik Nelson]

How do you know any of this? Personal experience? Why is your personal experience more valid than the personal experience of any other religion?

you do realize, that you are making it sound, like their Christian personal experience is non-valid

(because you cast doubt on them being able to "know any of this" based solely on merely their personal experience)

So I perceive you to be doubting ALL Religious experience carte blanche