Looks Like Maybe Ellen White Was Right!

[Ceallaigh]

I wasn't addressing any particular person. I just would rather this thread not turn into 900 pages of the kitchen sink. I'm not telling anyone what they have to do or getting snarky. I'm just asking please try to stick to centering conversation around Hebrews 3-4. Thanks

 

[guevaraj]

The Sabbath rest that the Hebrews reference speaks of is our rest in Christ from having to work at being justified by God through our works. The Saturday Sabbath was a sign pointing to Jesus Christ being our Sabbath rest. Once we are justified by faith in Christ alone, the sign of the Saturday Sabbath passed into history. We don't need the sign any more when we have the real thing.

Brother, the "rest" that God by "oath" prevented "them" to enter cannot be Jesus because such a "rest" was not available for "them" to "enter" during the 40 years before reaching the Promised Land.

For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. (Hebrews 4:2 NLT)​

The answer to who "them" are is found below. Those who were not allowed to "enter" God's "rest" for 40 years "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" by oath for their disobedience. The gospel of the kingdom of Jesus was not available to "them" to make it the "rest" they did not "enter" for 40 years.

And who was it who rebelled against God, even though they heard his voice? Wasn’t it the people Moses led out of Egypt? And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness? And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest. (Hebrews 3:16-19 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Danthemailman]

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index

 

[guevaraj]

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

Brother, God compares us to those "whose corpses lay in the wilderness" for 40 years due to an "oath". We must enter the "rest" in which they had not entered for 40 years by "oath" due to their disobedience. The only "rest" available to them as for us is the "rest" on the Sabbath.

And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness? And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath (3660) that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest. (Hebrews 3:17-19 NLT)​

The "rest" that they could have entered as we "can" is the Sabbath "rest".

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath (3660): ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:1-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Blade]

Seems Ellen White been talked about allot as of late. I wonder does anyone truly know anything about her? This woman was out there. Over 2 thousand visions... yes God does talk to us like that but you never run with that over the word of God..she did. One she had they stop eating meat, coffee and medication for natural things. Whats wrong with just that? Well if you wanted to do that praise GOD but a vision was the reason. When it comes to keeping the Sabbath.. did she get that from the word or a tract and another vision? There is more things she believed.. I can't find in the word of God. I will say she gave SDA new life.. she did.

 

[Bob S]

To me it is very simple, the writer of Hebrews was writing to the Jews. The Jews were already observing the Sabbath. They knew all the rules as to how to observe it. Had the writer been trying to prove the Sabbath to them he would have been preaching to the choir. The Sabbath the writer was referring to is resting in Jesus.

We know from the writings of Paul that Christians are under the laws of the new covenant. Paul went so far as to call the ten commandments, in which the Israelites got the written word of the command, the ministry of death and the KJV even tells us that the ten have been DONE AWAY.

 

[guevaraj]

When it comes to keeping the Sabbath.. did she get that from the word or a tract and another vision?

Brother, what I have come to understand in Hebrews 3 and 4 she got from an angel: the Promised Land has the correct Sabbath because remembered it is in the Eden time zone and not because it falls on the seventh day of the week. Neither her nor anyone else fully understood the angel's message until the angel's message confirmed my findings.

We understood "what even is" but we have not understood "when it is": even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in Israel is not as supposed a day of the week.

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[eleos1954]

The Sabbath originally was just for the Jews. Eventually the covenant was broken and a long time later God instituted a new covenant first offered to Jews who would accept Christ, then to the rest of the world. All who would accept Christ ie: Christians, would have a new covenant and thus a new Sabbath for rest. It because a spiritual rest rather than a certain day where one rested. A Christian has this spiritual Sabbath always because Christ gives us rest every day. We can also take literal rest from work on any day since Christ is the current concept of a Sabbath.


Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Christ is our Sabbath rest now.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath was one of many things that were shadows of things to come which means they would be fulfilled and replaced with something much greater.

Heb 4:7 Much later God told David to make the promise again, just as I have already said, "If you hear his voice today, don't be stubborn!"
Heb 4:8 If Joshua had really given the people rest, there would not be any need for God to talk about another day of rest.
Heb 4:9 But God has promised us a Sabbath when we will rest, even though it has not yet come.
Heb 4:10 On that day God's people will rest from their work, just as God rested from his work.
Heb 4:11 We should do our best to enter that place of rest, so that none of us will disobey and miss going there, as they did.

Here the Sabbath is different and is spoken as a place of rest, the eternity, when we will rest from all the struggles of life, sin and any hardships. It has not yet come, "even though it has not yet come".

Heb 4:10 On that day God's people will rest from their work, just as God rested from his work. (Gods work - referring back to Genesis)

If sabbath keeping was important to be saved, then Paul letters are misleading people to hell,
'nobody judge you about sabbath day'
'for some some days are more important than others, for others all days are the same, everyon should be convinced in their own mind'.

Ceremonial ordinances

The Jewish converts of the early church found it very difficult to leave the ceremonial ordinances of Old Testament Israel out of their religious practices. They thought of Christianity as being Jewish. Jesus was a Jew. His disciples were Jews. The Scriptures were written in Hebrew. It was hard to separate the types and symbols which Christ fulfilled, from the real.

In Romans 14:5, Paul is pleading with the Jewish Christians to cease fighting about the observance of ceremonial days and feasts which ended at the cross. Then he counsels, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

The 7th day Sabbath is not a ceremonial ordinance .... it is the day God created from the beginning .... and He reiterates to keep it holy in the 10 commandments, (holy - set apart) from other days.

 

[guevaraj]

The Jews were already observing the Sabbath. They knew all the rules as to how to observe it.

Brother, for 40 years with manna they did not keep an evening to evening Sabbath. Notice below when the Sabbath begins in the seventh day with manna: in the "morning" when it normally spoils and they pick up new manna every day except when the next day is a Sabbath and the manna is not spoiled in the "morning" but lasts for two days. Explained is this different beginning of the Sabbath with manna in Hebrews 3 and 4 under the new covenant that due to their disobedience before having manna they were not allowed to enter the "rest" of God's Sabbath during those 40 years near the Promised Land where the Sabbath is from evening to evening and not like they kept the Sabbath with manna from morning to morning. With manna they were keeping the wrong Sabbath near the Promised Land that was correct in Eden but not near the Promised Land.

So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. “Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a sabbath to the Lord. You will not find any of it on the ground today. Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” (Exodus 16:24-26 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Brother, what I have come to understand in Hebrews 3 and 4 she got from an angel: the Promised Land has the correct Sabbath because remembered it is in the Eden time zone and not because it falls on the seventh day of the week. Neither her nor anyone else fully understood the angel's message until the angel's message confirmed my findings.

We understood "what even is" but we have not understood "when it is": even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in Israel is not as supposed a day of the week.

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

WARNING the above post is unbiblical false teachings which is a theory being put forward here that has already been discussed many times in this section of the forum and shown from the scriptures not to be biblical. This being more repetition of the same. It is also off topic to the OP and a teaching no one here that is a sabbath keeper is in agreement with, supports or believes.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Notice that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used no where else in the Bible! Amazing that Sabbatarians would suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly Sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons - Sermon Index

Let's be clear and truthful. The Greek meaning of the Word "sabbatismos" from Hebrews 4:9 literally means "Sabbath keeping". The Vine's Dictionary in the section that you highlighted is not the Greek meaning of Sabbatismos which means "Sabbath keeping". It is Vines interpretation of what he thinks it means in chapter application and not the Greek meaning of the word sabbatismos. This application however disagrees with the context of Hebrews 4:1-5 that shows that (1.) application to God's rest that we who believe enter into by faith is to the seventh day weekly Sabbath *Hebrews 4:3-4. Hebrews 4:1-5 defines Gods' rest/His rest/My rest of Hebrews 3:11; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 5-6; 10-11 as the seventh day weekly Sabbath created from the foundation of the world *Hebrews 4:3-4 with Hebrews 4:9 saying that the keeping of this Sabbath (context) remains or is left behind for the people of God who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. So the section you highlighted above is not the Greek meaning of sabbatismos which is literally "Sabbath keeping" Vine however does actually give the literal Greek meaning earlier in the section you did not highlight as shown below.

W. E. VINE, Greek Dictionary
[ A-4,Noun,G4520, sabbatismos ] "a Sabbath-keeping," is used in Hebrews 4:9, RV, "a sabbath rest," AV marg., "a keeping of a sabbath" (akin to sabbatizo, "to keep the Sabbath," used, e.g., in Exodus 16:30, not in the NT)

The above is the Greek meaning while the interpretation you provided is not the Greek meaning. Let's compare the above to other Greek Dictionaries, Interlinear's and Lexicons on the meaning of the Greek word "sabbatismos"

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός a Sabbath keeping τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT, Abbott-Smith - G4520
*† σαββατισμός, - οῦ, ὁ
(< σαββατίζω, to keep the sabbath, Exod 16:30, al.),
a keeping sabbath, a sabbath rest: metaph., as in Mishna (Zorell, s.v.), Heb 4:9.†

LIDDEL/SCOTT/JONES GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON - G4520
σαββατισμός Σαββᾰτ-ισμός, ὁ, a keeping of days of rest, Ep. Heb 4:9, cf. Plu. 2.166a (codd., βαπτισμούς Bentley).

STRONGS LEXICON
So ἄρα (ara) Conjunction Strong's Greek 686: Then, therefore, since. Probably from airo; a particle denoting an inference more or less decisive. there remains ἀπολείπεται (apoleipetai) Verb - Present Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular Strong's Greek 620: From apo and leipo; to leave behind; by implication, to forsake. a Sabbath rest σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos) Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity. for the τῷ (tō) Article - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the. people λαῷ (laō) Noun - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people. of God. Θεοῦ (Theou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. THAYER - G4520
G4520 — σαββατισμός σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath)

...................

SUMMARY: The section you highlighted from the Vines dictionary is not the Greek meaning of sabbatismos. The literal Greek meaning of sabbatismos was supplied earlier in the Vines dictionary. The section you highlighted is only his view of what he thinks the application is to but this does not agree with scripture contexts. The context of Hebrews 4:1-5 that shows that (1.) application to God's rest that we who believe enter into is to the seventh day weekly Sabbath *Hebrews 4:3-4 which is defines Gods' rest/His rest/My rest of Hebrews 3:11; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 5-6; 10-11 as the seventh day weekly Sabbath created from the foundation of the world *Hebrews 4:3-4 with Hebrews 4:9 saying that the keeping of this Sabbath remains or is left behind for the people of God. Vines literal interpretation of sabbatismos is highlighted showing the literal meaning of the Greek is to "sabbath keeping". Other supporting Greek dictionaries, lexicons and interlinear are all provided showing the meaning and application of sabbatismos is to "sabbath keeping" that is left behind to the people of God who believe and follow His Word.

Hope this is helpful Dan.

Take Care

 

[LoveGodsWord]

To me it is very simple, the writer of Hebrews was writing to the Jews. The Jews were already observing the Sabbath. They knew all the rules as to how to observe it. Had the writer been trying to prove the Sabbath to them he would have been preaching to the choir. The Sabbath the writer was referring to is resting in Jesus. We know from the writings of Paul that Christians are under the laws of the new covenant. Paul went so far as to call the ten commandments, in which the Israelites got the written word of the command, the ministry of death and the KJV even tells us that the ten have been DONE AWAY.

God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures have not been done away. It is the ministration of condemnation and death that has been done away *2 Corinthians 3:3-11; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:10-11 not Gods' 10 commandments. Gods Word does not teach a false doctrine of lawlessness (without law). According to the scriptures the purpose of Gods' law (10 commandments) is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. To claim that Paul is teaching that Gods' 10 commandments has Paul in contradiction with Paul when he says to the Romans gentile believers in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law and again here to the Corinthians believers (gentiles) in 1 Corinthians 7:19 19, Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Take Care Bob.

 

[tall73]

Well like I said, up until now I haven't seen anything presented scripturally that was anywhere near this gripping.

It was mentioned to start with chapter 3. And if you did that you find that it builds its argument from three Old Testament accounts. So you will want to review these as well:

a. Numbers 13-14 relates how the people rebelled at the report of the spies who were sent into the promised land, and the resulting punishment declared upon them.

b. Psalm 95, which discusses the example of those in Numbers.

c. Genesis 1-2, the creation account.

 

[guevaraj]

WARNING the above post is unbiblical false teachings which is a theory being put forward here that has already been discussed many times in this section of the forum and shown from the scriptures not to be biblical. This being more repetition of the same. It is also off topic to the OP and a teaching no one here that is a sabbath keeper is in agreement with, supports or believes.

Brother, you hove no defense for your answer that the first day ends in an "evening" when God tells us it ends in a "morning", in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the "morning".

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

A previous morning to morning day of the week is confirmed in the following passage. The "night" before is the weekday before and the "night" of the current weekday is the "night" to come. Confirming a weekday from morning to morning where "night" follows "day". The weekday as defined by God in Genesis ends in the "night" from evening to morning because before was the "day" from morning to evening forming a weekday from morning to morning with an evening in the middle that divides both halves that God called "day" and "night" in that order.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” (Genesis 19:34 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[tall73]

Also not meaning to stray too far away from the scripture in question, there's the simple fact that only small minority of Christians have viewed this as Christians being required to keep the seventh day sabbath. So there has to be a valid reason for that. And I don't except that it's because the greater part of the whole of Christianity has been blind, deluded, deceived and hardened their hearts for two millennia as a legitimate reason.

Here is an historical perspective from the other side of the argument, taken from someone who spoke Greek and was closer to the time. You can read the whole homily on that section if you like.

When David then, he says, speaking at a later period, and after these events, after that generation of men, said, Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts, that you may not suffer the same things which your forefathers did, and be deprived of the Rest; he evidently [said this] as of some [future] rest. For if they had received their Rest (he says) why does He again say to them, Today if you will hear His voice harden not your hearts, as your fathers did? What other rest then is there, except the kingdom of Heaven, of which the Sabbath was an image and type?

What then does he say? Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. And see how he has summed up the whole argument. He swore, says he, to those former ones, that they should not enter into the rest, and they did not enter in. Then long after their time discoursing to the Jews, he says, Harden not your hearts, as your fathers, showing that there is another rest. For of Palestine we have not to speak: for they were already in possession of it. Nor can he be speaking of the seventh; for surely he was not discoursing about that which had taken place long before. It follows therefore that he hints at some other, that which is rest indeed.

And well did he conclude the argument. For he said not rest but Sabbath-keeping; calling the kingdom Sabbath-keeping, by the appropriate name, and that which they rejoiced in and were attracted by.

For that is indeed rest, where pain, sorrow and sighing are fled away Isaiah 35:10: where there are neither cares, nor labors, nor struggle, nor fear stunning and shaking the soul; but only that fear of God which is full of delight. There is not, In the sweat of your face you shall eat your bread, nor thorns and thistles Genesis 3:19; no longer, In sorrow you shall bring forth children, and to your husband shall be your desire and he shall rule over you. Genesis 3:16 All is peace, joy, gladness, pleasure, goodness, gentleness. There is no jealousy, nor envy, no sickness, no death whether of the body, or that of the soul. There is no darkness nor night; all [is] day, all light, all things are bright. It is not possible to be weary, it is not possible to be satiated: we shall always persevere in the desire of good things. Homily on Hebrews, John Chrysostom, Arch-bishop of Constantinople.

 

[tall73]

Ellen White's own statements on Hebrews 4, and alluding to it, are interesting in their own right:

[Hebrews 4:9, 11 quoted.] The rest here spoken of is the rest of grace, obtained by following the prescription, Labor diligently. Those who learn of Jesus His meekness and lowliness find rest in the experience of practicing His lessons. It is not in indolence, in selfish ease and pleasure-seeking, that rest is obtained. Those who are unwilling to give the Lord faithful, earnest, loving service will not find spiritual rest in this life or in the life to come. Only from earnest labor comes peace and joy in the Holy Spirit—happiness on earth and glory hereafter. Let us therefore labor. 7 Bible Commentary



And thus the mountain from which the words of benediction were spoken came to be known as the mount of blessing. But it was not upon Gerizim that the words were spoken which have come as a benediction to a sinning and sorrowing world. Israel fell short of the high ideal which had been set before her. Another than Joshua must guide His people to the true rest of faith. No longer is Gerizim known as the mount of the Beatitudes, but that unnamed mountain beside the Lake of Gennesaret, where Jesus spoke the words of blessing to His disciples and the multitude.
Ellen White--Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing Chapter 1

 

[guevaraj]

Here is an historical perspective from the other side of the argument, taken from someone who spoke Greek and was closer to the time. You can read the whole homily on that section if you like.

Brother, we must enter the "rest" in which they had not entered for 40 years by oath due to their disobedience. The only "rest" available to them as for us is the "rest" on the Sabbath.

And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness? And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest. (Hebrews 3:17-19 NLT)​

The "rest" they could have entered into as we "can" is the Sabbath "rest".

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BobRyan]

I've seen several passages presented that did not seem to support that Christians are required to keep the seventh day sabbath.

However Hebrews 4:8-11 (specifically verse 9) does seem to say that.

"8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience." Hebrews 4:8-11 NIV

*Works in this case means labors. ergon; work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.

So for those who maintain that Christians having to keep the seventh day sabbath, is not in the Bible, what's a reasonable concise argument that Hebrews 4:8-11 isn't saying that?

Good point.

Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

"Remains from when"? The text is quoting Ps 95 which is the time of David - saying that the Sabbath rest that "Remains" is remaining for the people of God as it was in the time of David in Ps 95.

So then how was that? What was the 4th commandment in the time of David? was it 'pick any day you want'? Or did they have the scriptures in Ex 16 giving them the unbending 40 years long repeated model of 6 days with manna and THE seventh day - with no manna as the text says "TOMORROW IS the Sabbath" Ex 16.


And also
in Heb 10:4-12 we see the "opposite point made" when it comes to animal sacrifice - where it says "he TAKES AWAY the first to establish the second" speaking of Christ's death on the cross ending animal sacrifice.

So in Heb 4 - it is a case of something that "REMAINS" from what it was at the time of David
And in Heb 10 - we have animal sacrifice laws "taken away"

I'd prefer it if we could stick to Hebrews instead of reruns of apologetics please folks.

As you can see - I am pretty happy with what we find in Hebrews - but at the same time I freely embrace the principle of exegesis where all statements in the Bible on the same subject are to be included for the most full accurate picture.

 

[Ceallaigh]

WARNING the above post is unbiblical false teachings which is a theory being put forward here that has already been discussed many times in this section of the forum and shown from the scriptures not to be biblical. This being more repetition of the same. It is also off topic to the OP and a teaching no one here that is a sabbath keeper is in agreement with, supports or believes.

That was an interesting response. I note that you refute it is saying it's unbiblical that most aren't in agreement with it. Pretty much a reflection of most Christians saying what you both teach is unbiblical an not being in agreement with it.

Also as far as the OP goes I wrote:

So for those who maintain that Christians having to keep the seventh day sabbath, is not in the Bible, what's a reasonable concise argument that Hebrews 4:8-11 isn't saying that?

 

[BobRyan]

That was an interesting response. I note that you refute it is saying it's unbiblical that most aren't in agreement with it. Pretty much a reflection of most Christians saying what you both teach is unbiblical an not being in agreement with it.

the statement

"Brother, what I have come to understand in Hebrews 3 and 4 she got from an angel: the Promised Land has the correct Sabbath because remembered it is in the Eden time zone and not because it falls on the seventh day of the week." --​

is as you note not supported by very many Bible scholars (if any).

But by contrast the basic Bible teaching that all TEN of the TEN Commandments (including the Sabbath commandment) are included in the moral law of God - written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 and applicable to all mankind - IS not ONLY the view of Bible Sabbath keeping Christians and the theologians that affirm them -- it is ALSO the view of almost ALL Christian denomination on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic and their respective theologians.

So then
D.L. Moody
C.H. Spurgeon
R.C. Sproul
Catholic Catechism
"Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19
"Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19
and many many more.

The area where they split is this - "can the Commandments be edited in some way" ... some say yes and others no.

The Catholic church says that the "binding obligation" of the Sabbath commandment is now met by attending mass on week-day-1 instead of the seventh day. (as one small example of such an edit/change).

But they all agree on this -

1. The Sabbath is STILL in the TEN Commandments
2. The TEN are in the moral law of God written on the heart
3. The TEN apply to all mankind and define what sin is
4. The Sabbath as you find it in the Bible in the OT is the 7th day - Saturday
5. Every reference to a "Sabbath" religious meeting in the NT - is on Saturday the Bible Sabbath.

Those things get a lot of "dispute attention" in certain forums like this but among Bible scholars in almost all denominations on both sides of the Sabbath topic - those 5 points are not at all disputed.

=========================

Now let me ask you a question - reading this post- can you now see why this topic gets such a high level of Bible Sabbath keeping Christians many of whom used to observe wee-day-1 but now observe the seventh day??