Looking for testable conversion stories

[Freodin]

Ever so often, I stumble over phrases used by believers that tell me that "they have been like me before", "they were Atheists / Agnostics / Sceptics like me", "they have been on my side of the fence and know exactly how I think"... and usually in the same sentence demonstrate that they don't.

Now I know from long experience that - for several reasons - it seems difficult for Christains to correctly assess their former disbelief. I don't want to go into a debate about these reasons right now - though I am willing to do so if anyone asks.

What I am looking for is a "history" of a conversion (or more than one, if possible). Not a present-day recounting of what happened, but a number of sources that would document the changing of positions, if not the actual change.

For example, I have been a member and participent on this board for over nine years. A lot of my posts are still accessible. If I were to convert to Christianity in the future, my old positions, reasonings and arguments could still be found in our archives here.

Is there anyone who can provide me with similar examples from an actual conversion?

 

[visionary]

Actual conversions occur upon meeting Yeshua, the Messiah... and the conversation that went on between them .. Rev 3:20

Then everything that this world has you believe takes on a whole new meaning.. Then the Word of God makes sense.. what is happening makes more sense,... and the hope that is within us happens because we now know God is in control and He is in fact real, and really does love us...

Until you have that experience.. anything we say is going to be theologically nonsense and without substance.. just a theory..

 

[myshkin]

How exactly is a (personal) "history" of a conversion testable?

 

[Freodin]

"Testable" not in relation to the conversion, but in the (claimed) change of positions.

What I want to "test" is not the actual state of belief in a claimant, but their previous positions.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my OP.

Sometimes I am confronted with a Christian poster, who tells his audience: "I was an Atheist, like you, and I believed THIS and THAT and felt X and Y. And then I found Jesus and now I know the truth!"

And I personally wonder: I am an Atheist, and I never believed THIS and THAT and have never felt X and Y. How can this person claim to have been "like me"? How can this person even have been an Atheist, if he/she based it on THIS,THAT,X and Y?

Am I doing my Atheism "wrong"? Was this person? Or, something that does indeed happen, is this person's new faith colouring his memories of his own past beliefs?

So instead of having someone tell me now what they think they believed then, I'd like to see it for myself.

As I said... you can check out my own posts from 9 years ago, and you will find out what the Freodin of 2002 believed, how he reasoned, how he defended his beliefs. I do, now and then, and I find my beliefs rather consistent. But then, I haven't converted.

Yet I would like to see some documented history from people who did convert, and find out if their present view of themselves does indeed add up with their former selfs.

 

[drich0150]

Ever so often, I stumble over phrases used by believers that tell me that "they have been like me before", "they were Atheists / Agnostics / Skeptics like me", "they have been on my side of the fence and know exactly how I think"... and usually in the same sentence demonstrate that they don't.

Isn't this a cliché in of itself with "guys like you?"
That you all want to believe that you are a signal enigma that the earth has never seen before or ever will see again?? It's almost like there is a production line punching you guys out a graduating class at a time.

Now I know from long experience that - for several reasons - it seems difficult for Christan's to correctly assess their former disbelief. I don't want to go into a debate about these reasons right now - though I am willing to do so if anyone asks.

What I am looking for is a "history" of a conversion (or more than one, if possible). Not a present-day recounting of what happened, but a number of sources that would document the changing of positions, if not the actual change.

For example, I have been a member and participant on this board for over nine years. A lot of my posts are still accessible. If I were to convert to Christianity in the future, my old positions, reasonings and arguments could still be found in our archives here.

Is there anyone who can provide me with similar examples from an actual conversion?

[/QUOTE]
So you are saying there is not any proof of a true conversion if one has not documented his disbelief on a web chat for nine or more years? I will give you this, if that is what you are implying to one degree or another, that would be "different."

One of our elders was the personal body guard to MalcomX during the 60's. He wrote a book some time back, would that count?

 

[Freodin]

Isn't this a cliché in of itself with "guys like you?"
That you all want to believe that you are a signal enigma that the earth has never seen before or ever will see again?? It's almost like there is a production line punching you guys out a graduating class at a time.

It is not a question of being different in general... it is about being different from what was claimed.

I cannot personally relate to any kind of conversion - my conscious position on religion and faith has been rather constant over the last 30 years - so I have to rely on what others tell me.
If what they tell me, especially about myself (and that is what a claim of "being like me" is) does not conform to my own observations, then there must be some sort of problem, either with myself or with them.

My own positions from back then I can check. Theirs... well, that is what I am asking for.

So you are saying there is not any proof of a true conversion if one has not documented his disbelief on a web chat for nine or more years? I will give you this, if that is what you are implying to one degree or another, that would be "different."

No, I am not saying that, and I don't how you could get that from what I wrote. I specifically stated " What I want to 'test' is not the actual state of belief in a claimant, but their previous positions. "

I am not interested in the veracity of their current state - even if I was, as an Atheist I am neither qualified nor willing to make a statement about anyone's claimed faith.

I am interested in their claims about their previous positions in contrast to what might have been documented about these positions.

One of our elders was the personal body guard to MalcomX during the 60's. He wrote a book some time back, would that count?

Malcom X... that is Black Power movement and something with Nation of Islam? Sorry if I am vague here... that is not part of my own societal history.

Was that book written while your elder was still with Malcom X or does he look back on that time from his present position? It might not directly relate to my question - Islam and Atheism are quite different - but it might allow insights into the changed view on one's own positions.

 

[AlexBP]

As I said... you can check out my own posts from 9 years ago, and you will find out what the Freodin of 2002 believed, how he reasoned, how he defended his beliefs. I do, now and then, and I find my beliefs rather consistent. But then, I haven't converted.

Yet I would like to see some documented history from people who did convert, and find out if their present view of themselves does indeed add up with their former selfs.

I was an atheist until age 23. While I didn't post on this particular message board prior to converting to Christianity I did post about religious questions on other message boards, most frequently at the Straight Dope Message Board. I used the name ITR Champion because at the time I wanted to be anonymous. You can read some of what I thought in posts like this:

Straight Dope Message Board - View Single Post - Why are there lots of religions ?

Straight Dope Message Board - View Single Post - Arguments you're tired of hearing from fundies?

Straight Dope Message Board - View Single Post - Red Sea crossing found?

Straight Dope Message Board - View Single Post - Dealing with Biblical Contradictions; Or, Does Pi Equal 3? (Long)

Straight Dope Message Board - View Single Post - Rabbi/Minister conflict in Atlanta

Straight Dope Message Board - View Single Post - Answers In Genesis

(The fact that some of these contain my present signature line makes them slightly surreal.)

People on this message board should not add posts to these particular threads on that message board. So-called "zombie threads" (ones where somebody posts something many years after the thread was abandoned) are against the rules on that board.

 

[Freodin]

Thanks. That is just what I was looking for.

Now how would you describe your former thoughts from your current position? Do you think your reasoning are still valid, and you have just found additional informations? Or do you think that they show your former hate of God?

 

[AlexBP]

I would say that the reasons I offered for rejecting Christianity back then came from a mixture of misinformation and things that I had made up. In some cases I was exposed to only anti-Christian sources presenting their side of the story on various issues and I derived opinions from those without giving them much critical thought.