Loneliness is a chink in my armor

[Eftsoon]

and I suppose I realize now, how much of a window that was into my relationship with God.
He tears me down when I become proud, He beats me when I disobey or don't do something exactly right, He trains me in the ways I should go with sternness, and He scowls at me instead of smiles most of the time. But He's also going to bat for me when it counts, advocating for me, shaking His fist in Satan's face when Satan's trying to take me somewhere I don't want to go using legalese.

You're right in one sense.This all stems from your relationship with God. You aren't encountering God as He is.

 

[Jamdoc]

Sounds like you've cracked it mate

That said, the analogy is a little strained. God doesn't need to masquerade. There's no deception, and He isn't capricious.

Well I never meant it to be a perfect analogy. What I was meaning is that, sometimes God does things that are not pleasant to go through at the time, but it's for your own good Romans 8:28 right? Sometimes, just looking at the hardships that God has put in front of you, it can seem like God is that mean ol drill instructor that seems to hate your guts. But the reality is, God loves you and wants you to succeed.
I wasn't meaning God actually played bad cop. Just that from a human perspective sometimes it can seem that way, because we don't always understand what God is doing with it.
Those 8 count body builders that they made you do until your arms were jello and you couldn't pick yourself off the floor anymore? They felt miserable at the time.. but they made you stronger, and you only really appreciate that after the fact, not at the time you're going through them. So.. that's how it has to be looked at.

 

[Jamdoc]

You're right in one sense.This all stems from your relationship with God. You aren't encountering God as He is.

None of us really are. We encounter Him through His word and through how He moves our lives.
We don't get to meet face to face for awhile yet.

 

[Eftsoon]

None of us really are. We encounter Him through His word and through how He moves our lives.
We don't get to meet face to face for awhile yet.

Your portrait of God is unbalanced however. It is out of alignment with scriptural revelation. It's a prioritisation of experience and interpretation.

 

[Eftsoon]

Well I never meant it to be a perfect analogy. What I was meaning is that, sometimes God does things that are not pleasant to go through at the time, but it's for your own good Romans 8:28 right? Sometimes, just looking at the hardships that God has put in front of you, it can seem like God is that mean ol drill instructor that seems to hate your guts. But the reality is, God loves you and wants you to succeed.
I wasn't meaning God actually played bad cop. Just that from a human perspective sometimes it can seem that way, because we don't always understand what God is doing with it.
Those 8 count body builders that they made you do until your arms were jello and you couldn't pick yourself off the floor anymore? They felt miserable at the time.. but they made you stronger, and you only really appreciate that after the fact, not at the time you're going through them. So.. that's how it has to be looked at.

When I read over what you said, I interpreted it in that sense. On closer inspection it really does sound like you are drawing an exact comparison as per the quote in Post #61

 

[Jamdoc]

Your portrait of God is unbalanced however. It is out of alignment with scriptural revelation. It's a prioritisation of experience and interpretation.

Scripture says God chastises and scourges every son He receives.
Scripture never says God gives you only pleasant experiences.

 

[Eftsoon]

Scripture says God chastises and scourges every son He receives.
Scripture never says God gives you only pleasant experiences.

It's unbalanced because it's an authoritarian, tyrannical God

He beats me when I disobey or don't do something exactly right

That is not the God we serve. Take heart.

 

[Jamdoc]

When I read over what you said, I interpreted it in that sense. On closer inspection it really does sound like you are drawing an exact comparison as per the quote in Post #61

Well it's not meant to be other than the idea is that from our own perspective, God can SEEM to be doing very harsh things, but it's done in love so that we can succeed.
If God only doles out pleasant experiences and never hardship, well, I wouldn't have MS, I wouldn't be autoimmune, I wouldn't be crippled. None of those things happen without God's permission.
But being that I've prayed for healing on those things and I'm still a cripple, whatever God's plans for me are, involve me being a cripple.
If you ever have a bad circumstance in life, a chronic disease, a lost job, etc, do you just, wash away God's sovereignty? Job attributed his suffering to have at least been allowed by God, if not caused by God, recognizing God's sovereignty and right to afflict Job if He wanted.
Job didn't understand WHY God was doing this/allowing this, but He acknowledged that God could cause it, and had reason for doing so.
David acknowledged his suffering came from chastisement for his iniquities in the Psalms.

 

[Jamdoc]

It's unbalanced because it's an authoritarian, tyrannical God

God has all authority, He is authoritarian. His kingdom is not a democracy.
But He's not a tyrant. we don't understand all His purposes but His purposes are ultimately good.
The God of the Bible had the Children of Israel kill every man woman and child in Canaanite cities. He utterly destroyed the cities on the plain, He had Babylon destroy Judah and carry them into captivity, and one day He is going to allow people following the antichrist to imprison and behead people who live Godly and hold the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It sounds bad. Sure.
But we trust that He has good reason, and that the plan is the best possible outcome for us.
A Tyrant does things completely selfishly, and God humbled Himself, lowered Himself to reveal Himself to us to take on flesh, and be scourged ridiculed, and killed to atone for our sins. That's not the acts of a Tyrant. It's far too selfless.
But, when Jesus comes back, his vestments will be dipped in blood...

I know that a lot of times it's popular to just deal with the love of God without reconciling the Wrath of God with it.
but I am to a degree comfortable with that. Jesus is a person, not some abstract concept. So there are other things you have to accept about His personhood. God is love but God also has wrath, God also takes vengeance, and God also scourges and disciplines.
You have to accept that the same God who took compassion on the 5000 and fed them with a miracle, also said He came to set fire to the Earth and He wish it was already kindled.

I'm well aware of the love of God, but it seems like a lot of people are unbalanced and focus on that, so.. I guess I do focus on the wrath and judgement and chastisement of God, because I deal with chastisement a lot more than I deal with blessings and things going my way.

That is not the God we serve. Take heart.

Hebrews 12:5-8
To be honest, those verses actually help me when at times I doubted my own salvation because of affliction. Paul (and Solomon, who he's referring back to), and the book of Job, clear up this bad idea that you can't be saved and still suffer.
Because some people do treat it that way (see Job's friends)

It's important to me because it lets me realize that yes, God still loves me, even if it is a tough love.
If I tried to focus entirely on the Joel Ostein side, where God doesn't do tough love He just showers people with blessings and new jobs and miraculous healings and weddings and children and satisfying ministries.. I'd feel unloved, because I don't get those things.
I get tough love.

 

[GospelS]

I believe in scripture.
to be honest I've been worried about you because a lot of your ideas about God, are not in scripture, a God that is both male and female, and now seeing God as your child, that you raise and teach and discipline. None of that is biblically supported.

Yes, God does chastise and scourge.
Hebrews 12:5-8
Yes, God does allow bad things to happen to people even when they try to live Godly. Job, David, Jeremiah, Elijah are the biblical examples, and I'm pretty sure there are many others that weren't prophets who endured hardships and and God didn't just give them everything they wanted.

The Bible instructs us not to believe every spirit but to test the spirits to see whether they are from God. Satan also tries to show some love, give blessings, and miracles. The tough love that you speak of is satanic and deceptive to keep you in the bondage of slavery and obligation. God's tough love is not the same. From your OP, I see the devil is interpreting the scripture to you, not the Holy Spirit. If the God you serve is the same as the God of the Bible, then ask Him to also show you His power to heal you completely as revealed by Christ. If He is not considering your prayers and interests, then you need to question. The spirit that is speaking to you doesn't know true love and has no power to heal you. So it's deceiving you by saying- "no, that how I made it for you". It's the devil that wants you to remain crippled and alone. It is making you stronger in the wrong way that it might beat you more, keep you, make you emotionless and immune to good things. God of the Bible is not like this.

 

[Jamdoc]

The Bible instructs us not to believe every spirit but to test the spirits to see whether they are from God. Satan also tries to show some love, give blessings, and miracles. The tough love that you speak of is satanic and deceptive to keep you in the bondage of slavery and obligation. God's tough love is not the same. From your OP, I see the devil is interpreting the scripture to you, not the Holy Spirit. If the God you serve is the same as the God of the Bible, then ask Him to also show you His power to heal you completely as revealed by Christ. If He is not considering your prayers and interests, then you need to question. The spirit that is speaking to you doesn't know true love and has no power to heal you. So it's deceiving you by saying- "no, that how I made it for you". It's the devil that wants you to remain crippled and alone. It is making you stronger in the wrong way that it might beat you more, keep you, make you emotionless and immune to good things. God of the Bible is not like this.

and the test of the spirit is testing it against what the bible says.
The bible doesn't say God is both male and female
the bible doesn't say that Jesus Christ is your child.
The bible refers to Jesus as "the Son of Man" (Jesus' favorite title for Himself) and "the Man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)
The bible also says the biggest test of any spirit is

1 John 4:1-3

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world

The, key thing that I believe, coming right out of the bible, is that God came down and was born as Jesus Christ, that Jesus came in the flesh..

Okay, I test every bit of my theology against the bible.
everything.
sometimes I have other ideas, but I don't hold them as true, unless I test them against the Word of God and its consistent. If it's not consistent I discard them.
That is why I discard your 'Jesus is the most feminine person" theology.
because it's not consistent with the bible.

 

[GospelS]

and the test of the spirit is testing it against what the bible says.
The bible doesn't say God is both male and female
the bible doesn't say that Jesus Christ is your child.
The bible refers to Jesus as "the Son of Man" (Jesus' favorite title for Himself) and "the Man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)
The bible also says the biggest test of any spirit is

1 John 4:1-3


The, key thing that I believe, coming right out of the bible, is that God came down and was born as Jesus Christ, that Jesus came in the flesh..

Okay, I test every bit of my theology against the bible.
everything.
sometimes I have other ideas, but I don't hold them as true, unless I test them against the Word of God and its consistent. If it's not consistent I discard them.
That is why I discard your 'Jesus is the most feminine person" theology.
because it's not consistent with the bible.

God becomes our everything. He wants to be everything to us. He loves us in every way and He wants all our love, in every way, with "all our mind, soul, and strength". The glory, beauty, and power of Jesus are so captivating that we would even forget ourselves. Nothing will come to our mind before Him. Gender doesn't come between us and God. Nothing can separate us from His love. You can reject everything that I said. That's fine. May God bless you.

 

[Rigatoni]

Always stay strongly rooted in scripture. If something doesn't line up with God's word, throw it out; test all things against the authority of God's word and listen to biblically-sound teachings. There is no grey area with God.

There is no love in satan nor does he try to show it. He tries to deceive, cheat and manipulate to pull you away from God. He comes to steal, kill and destroy. If he can pull your focus off of God and get you off the solid, immovable Rock of His Word, then you're vulnerable.

 

[GospelS]

The bible doesn't say God is both male and female

God created man in His own image,
in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them.
Genesis 1:27

the bible doesn't say that Jesus Christ is your child.

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; Isaiah 9:6
Which is born of the flesh is flesh (YOU), and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (JESUS). ‘You must be born again.’

 

[Jamdoc]

Always stay strongly rooted in scripture. If something doesn't line up with God's word, throw it out; test all things against the authority of God's word and listen to biblically-sound teachings. There is no grey area with God.

There is no love in satan nor does he try to show it. He tries to deceive, cheat and manipulate to pull you away from God. He comes to steal, kill and destroy. If he can pull your focus off of God and get you off the solid, immovable Rock of His Word, then you're vulnerable.

He is right on HALT, and I'd add another condition of vulnerability: bored.

 

[Jamdoc]

God created man in His own image,
in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them.
Genesis 1:27

Yes, but that is not saying God is both male and female, Genesis 2 goes into how God created male, then He created female from male.
It's the same general body plan, 2 eyes 2 ears, stands upright on 2 legs, has 2 arms and 2 hands
and the same amalgamation of body soul and spirit.
But God is never referred to in any terms as female, or feminine, and in fact a man acting feminine is sin. We've been over this. 1 Corinthians 6:9 "nor effeminate".

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; Isaiah 9:6
Which is born of the flesh is flesh (YOU), and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (JESUS). ‘You must be born again.’

When I say "consistent" with the Word of God I don't mean "cherrypicked single verses out of context"
Yes, Jesus was born as a child, a son, but it does not mean every single individual. That child was born to a collective "us" specifically Israel more specifically the tribe of Judah, but in general to mankind.
Jesus is not your child.
Like I keep saying, you are the child, a child of God. We're not the parental figure in the relationship

 

[Rigatoni]

In regards to loneliness, I've been there myself for a very long time. I've wrestled with deep loneliness and depression. I was confused as to why God would seemingly deny me what I thought I needed (companionship), and why I felt like He was shunning me at the same time.

But I learned that the best antidote for loneliness is family. Spend time with loved ones, or find a family of believers closeby you can fellowship with. The devil wants to pull our focus off of God onto our sin, loneliness or depression. But time with loved ones is a powerful remedy, and helps take our focus off of our situation and apparent lack. If we don't have access to that in real life, then searching out close friendships here on CF or other forums can possibly work.

I know being disabled doesn't help. But it's beneficial to challenge ourselves in some way (i.e. to try new things or go to new places), or to pursue hobbies / interests that we really enjoy. It also helps to learn to love ourselves as we genuinely are, regarding both our good and bad qualities, while learning to laugh off the bad. If God loves us exactly as we are right now in Christ, then why not like ourselves exactly as we are? No one else has the right or authority to determine our worth. It's hard to remain lonely and depressed over what we don't have when we're constantly working towards bettering ourselves to receive it, by faith.

The idea of a woman curing our ultimate loneliness is a Catch-22, unfortunately. I've chased that phantom for years and it only left me further empty and wanting. What I shared I know works because it works for me personally. And I wouldn't get too worked up over Matthew 22:30. I believe there's a whole lot more to that verse than at first glance.

 

[Jamdoc]

I know being disabled doesn't help. But it's beneficial to challenge ourselves in some way (i.e. to try new things or go to new places), or to pursue hobbies / interests that we really enjoy. It also helps to learn to love ourselves as we genuinely are, regarding both our good and bad qualities, while learning to laugh off the bad. If God loves us exactly as we are right now in Christ, then why not like ourselves exactly as we are? No one else has the right or authority to determine our worth. It's hard to remain lonely and depressed over what we don't have when we're constantly working towards bettering ourselves to receive it, by faith.

It is .. excessively hard to do that with chronic degenerative illnesses. When I find myself having trouble gripping a pen, or opening something because I can't muster the fine motor control anymore, I just feel lit all going down and I can't do the things I want to do and it's really frustrating having a body that won't obey the mind. It's like trying to play those claw games in arcades and movie theaters, the translation of where you want the arm to go doesn't work very well and trying to grab the plushie or whatever other prize you're aiming for never goes right. It's a "why can't I do this normal thing that everyone else can do without even trying?!" even worse realizing you used to be able to do it. Or like when you give up hobbies because you can no longer do them. I can no longer go for hikes or mountain biking, I can no longer play guitar
Since praying for healing has always resulted in 2 Corinthians 12:9.. no healing just.. I guess waiting for resurrection to make me better. That is why Matthew 22:30 hurts because by the time I get better.. it'll be too late for that relationship that I would like to have.

The idea of a woman curing our ultimate loneliness is a Catch-22, unfortunately. I've chased that phantom for years and it only left me further empty and wanting. What I shared I know works because it works for me personally. And I wouldn't get too worked up over Matthew 22:30. I believe there's a whole lot more to that verse than at first glance.

Well,. not only a woman. It's like pieces of a puzzle. you have other relationships, you're just missing that 1 (or well a few because obviously, no children too). I don't at all delude myself that having a wife would by itself cure loneliness. Without a relationship to God a relationship to a woman would be meaningless to me. So I prioritize the relationship to God.
It'd just be nice to be able to have both, like many other people do.

Sometimes I try to view Matthew 22:30 and its corresponding verses in Luke and Mark differently, sometimes I try to look at Isaiah 65, specifically Isaiah 65:23. What offspring if there are no more children right? But... I end up rejecting entertaining those possibilities because Matthew 22:30 is the clearest statement.
I will always root myself in the clearest statements in scripture, even if it does make me unhappy to do so.

 

[GospelS]

Yes, but that is not saying God is both male and female, Genesis 2 goes into how God created male, then He created female from male.
It's the same general body plan, 2 eyes 2 ears, stands upright on 2 legs, has 2 arms and 2 hands
and the same amalgamation of body soul and spirit.
But God is never referred to in any terms as female, or feminine, and in fact a man acting feminine is sin. We've been over this. 1 Corinthians 6:9 "nor effeminate".




When I say "consistent" with the Word of God I don't mean "cherrypicked single verses out of context"
Yes, Jesus was born as a child, a son, but it does not mean every single individual. That child was born to a collective "us" specifically Israel more specifically the tribe of Judah, but in general to mankind.
Jesus is not your child.
Like I keep saying, you are the child, a child of God. We're not the parental figure in the relationship

So since man is in the image of God,
And God created a female human version from a male,
Can God also have a feminine spirit version within/of Himself?

Everyone has to receive the God-given child for themselves. You won’t be a parent teaching Him though; the child teaches you, and you must listen to Him and become like Him.

 

[Eftsoon]

God has all authority, He is authoritarian. His kingdom is not a democracy.
But He's not a tyrant. we don't understand all His purposes but His purposes are ultimately good.
The God of the Bible had the Children of Israel kill every man woman and child in Canaanite cities. He utterly destroyed the cities on the plain, He had Babylon destroy Judah and carry them into captivity, and one day He is going to allow people following the antichrist to imprison and behead people who live Godly and hold the testimony of Jesus Christ.
It sounds bad. Sure.
But we trust that He has good reason, and that the plan is the best possible outcome for us.
A Tyrant does things completely selfishly, and God humbled Himself, lowered Himself to reveal Himself to us to take on flesh, and be scourged ridiculed, and killed to atone for our sins. That's not the acts of a Tyrant. It's far too selfless.
But, when Jesus comes back, his vestments will be dipped in blood...

I know that a lot of times it's popular to just deal with the love of God without reconciling the Wrath of God with it.
but I am to a degree comfortable with that. Jesus is a person, not some abstract concept. So there are other things you have to accept about His personhood. God is love but God also has wrath, God also takes vengeance, and God also scourges and disciplines.
You have to accept that the same God who took compassion on the 5000 and fed them with a miracle, also said He came to set fire to the Earth and He wish it was already kindled.

I'm well aware of the love of God, but it seems like a lot of people are unbalanced and focus on that, so.. I guess I do focus on the wrath and judgement and chastisement of God, because I deal with chastisement a lot more than I deal with blessings and things going my way.



Hebrews 12:5-8
To be honest, those verses actually help me when at times I doubted my own salvation because of affliction. Paul (and Solomon, who he's referring back to), and the book of Job, clear up this bad idea that you can't be saved and still suffer.
Because some people do treat it that way (see Job's friends)

It's important to me because it lets me realize that yes, God still loves me, even if it is a tough love.
If I tried to focus entirely on the Joel Ostein side, where God doesn't do tough love He just showers people with blessings and new jobs and miraculous healings and weddings and children and satisfying ministries.. I'd feel unloved, because I don't get those things.
I get tough love.

Perhaps the highest aim of our soul is to be so steeped in God that His will is our sole delight. Seeing God's will and action is our only motivation and our greatest joy. This is the way of the saint. I don't believe that it's possible for people who live lives of comfort and general serenity. The process of surrender is catalysed by suffering. The end is not just a foretaste of paradise, but a descent of the kingdom into your soul.

I hope you'll encountered something of God's love here I've had some beautiful exchanges myself - some of the natives are a little salty, but as a general rule, there's sweetness in the middle lol