Loneliness is a chink in my armor

[Jamdoc]

Thanks for clarifying. At least, you can admit that you're not on the same page with early patristics. I'm more ok with the Spirit not having a gender than the prospect of never being united to God, in Spirit. That doesn't imply that we become androgynous in my view so much as a man united to God in Spirit is a more complete man, and likewise a woman is a more complete woman. Humans are made for God.

Theosis is more of an Eastern Orthodox thing, and I never said not united with God in spirit it's just that you maintain individual identity as well. Where Theosis sounds like.. there's no individual.

 

[Jamdoc]

@Jamdoc I hope you are feeling better today. Here's something I hope you might consider.

Three males in one and living together don’t make an image of God. That can’t make a family. It can’t be fruitful and multiply. There is limited scope for love, perfection, and unity. That’s not who God is. He is blessed, complete, and all-knowing.

God is a family within Himself. He is triune- distinctively male, distinctively female, and a combination of both. That’s man, woman, and child. This is the family picture that God created in His image. This family structure represents God. Only this structure is Godly, blessed, can be fruitful, and multiply. In the same structure of God, He created us so we can have perfect unity and love.

Well even if I disagree with some of your theology.
I do really appreciate your compassion. I have noticed that you seem to have scoured a lot of my posts, I can tell you really care and and your heart is in the right place.
Thank you.
It does make me feel better than someone does care for me.

 

[GospelS]

Well even if I disagree with some of your theology.
I do really appreciate your compassion. I have noticed that you seem to have scoured a lot of my posts, I can tell you really care and and your heart is in the right place.
Thank you.
It does make me feel better than someone does care for me.

Amen. I prayed for that. I wanted to understand the root of your concerns. God did really answer me through His Word. I’m not worried anymore. You are in good hands of the Lord. He does have a calling and you should believe what you believe. I know having the right understanding of the image of God is what begins healing and hope. Singularity results in loneliness, brokenness and hopelessness. Binary is barrenness. But Triunity brings joy and blessings. Your core being as a man longs for a female companion and offspring that looks like you. That’s the image of God all men have. The Father is the same and He does have someone. He hides His side and His Son sometimes like a man would cover and care for his wife and children for himself.

Ultimately, I rather prefer that you feel loved and cared. I look beyond any disagreements and don’t want that to create more loneliness and a wedge. These things are minor. Love, faith, and hope are the priorities that we will retain. I try to love but I’m a limited being and everyone is different. That’s okay. That’s how we grow and learn. I hope you have a nice evening.

 

[LonelyAdams]

Presently being lonely all the time (between the virus (and being of a vulnerable population to it) and being disabled, being able to fellowship at all is excessively hard). Is a vulnerability that Satan likes to prey on me with, and while I can easily deny myself temporarily, his absolute favorite tool in his arsenal is Matthew 22:30 and the promise that I'll always have that loneliness forever.
He just stabs me with it over and over and I always bleed.
How can a verse of the word of God be like poison to me?!
But that's the way it gets used. It makes me depressed, it makes me get bored and tired of everything and lose interest in everything, which makes me susceptible to a host of sins. Coveting. seeking worldly distractions, being easily led into pornography, lust, overusing mmj to get high, if I had alcohol I'd probably be using that too, things I don't want but when I'm in that hole and I'm bleeding, I reach for anything, anything that will take my mind off of that wound and that sharp verse that gets stabbed into me just mercilessly. I reach for God first but the attacks keep coming, until I reach for a sin, then the attacks stop while I have to deal with the guilt that I brought on myself.
It's a test I fail over and over and I don't know how I can fix that weak spot. No amount of prayer or reading the bible has worked, because it's a bible verse that's being weaponized against me in the first place. "You want that? well too bad, Jesus says you'll never have it"

I try to convince myself maybe the verse doesn't mean what it says. That's what I want to believe, but other christians, pastors, people here, all affirm it means what it says, which lets it remain a weapon against me. It makes me wish I'd skipped those chapters of the synoptic gospels but I know that that is wrong too, because I should love the truth, even a painful truth. It can't be good that it can just be used as an onramp to bring me low by Satan.

I can really relate man. I struggle with both lonlinessness and chronic illness. Its really hard cause a lot of people just don't understand what its like to live with chronic illness. people will tell you that you need to find ways to busy yourself but at some point you just can't anymore. Either the illness prevents it or you get so burned out and tired you can't anymore. then its really easy to fall into so bad habits cause you just want to not feel misserable or alone. Anything to feel a connection with someone, or to trick yourself into feeling a connection.

I don't have any real advice, I'll pray for you.

 

[Jamdoc]

I can really relate man. I struggle with both lonlinessness and chronic illness. Its really hard cause a lot of people just don't understand what its like to live with chronic illness. people will tell you that you need to find ways to busy yourself but at some point you just can't anymore. Either the illness prevents it or you get so burned out and tired you can't anymore. then its really easy to fall into so bad habits cause you just want to not feel misserable or alone. Anything to feel a connection with someone, or to trick yourself into feeling a connection.

I don't have any real advice, I'll pray for you.

It's good to be able to empathize with someone.
Yeah, the boredom when your activity choices are limited really do give the devil an access point.
it is very tough and you're really vulnerable in those states and can be tricked into things you don't really want to do. Just to feel something
and there is the just CONSTANT spiritual attacks.
There are thoughts trying to be jammed into your head that are clearly not your own thoughts, and they clearly don't come from God.
and I hate him for trying to do that.
I hate that he can use a bible verse to hurt me, but I can use another verse(s) to reject the things that he tries to convince me of.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

being God's property, I put responsibility for my life in the hands of Jesus.

 

[TheWhat?]

Theosis is more of an Eastern Orthodox thing, and I never said not united with God in spirit it's just that you maintain individual identity as well. Where Theosis sounds like.. there's no individual.

Maybe it is more of an Eastern Orthodox thing, now, but not in its origination. The Catholic equivalent is divinization, and is a subject relegated mostly to dusty old tomes. Many catholics even are somewhat taken aback by the subject when it's brought up in casual conversation. Protestants, also, have an equivalent. Lutherans believe in a "mystical union", and the situation is kind of similar there.

The Eastern Orthodox are among the few that keep it at the forefront of their belief system in modern times and as a result they seem to have a better articulation of their doctrine than most. While the minutia may differ between denominations, what's obvious is that it is a relic of ancient christianity, going all the way back to the earliest of church fathers as integral to what the first christians believed about salvation, and I think it's fair to say it is naturally supported by scripture.

 

[TheWhat?]

I would like to say it's a component of ancient apostolic christianity, so that you may expect to find it in Coptic, Oriental Orthodox and maybe even Thomas christian churches, but I can't vouch for that. I have seen something visually similar depicted in Coptic iconography but I haven't dug into the subject deeply enough to be certain.

 

[Jamdoc]

Well, it's certainly not something that I get out of scripture. There is certainly a spiritual union, Paul is clear about that in 1 Corinthians 6.
But I don't think it's to the point of losing your identity and just becoming a part of God, which is what I get from the concept of Theosis, it's too close to becoming God or like God yourself which is.. ultimately the first sin, the desire to do just that.
Right now, you can definitely discern the other spirit in you right, as if it is a separate person in your thoughts, reminding you of things pointing out scripture to you, comforting you, it's certainly not thoughts coming from yourself but... it's like Jesus said

John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

in fact that's the main way the spirit communicates with me.. referring me to the bible, so that I know I can trust Him.

I think in heaven, when glorified, that relationship will be clearer and more intimate, but that there will still be that division where you know that this is a separate person communicating with you not your own thoughts.
Where Theosis.. the idea is you wouldn't have that distinction. "Your" thoughts would literally be God's thoughts and it's not just that you as a separate person are in agreement with God's thoughts but those very thoughts don't seem to come from a distinct other person but just yourself.

I think that is flying a little too close to the sun as an idea.
I want relationship with God, fellowship with God, I don't want to be God.

 

[TheWhat?]

I think in heaven, when glorified, that relationship will be clearer and more intimate, but that there will still be that division where you know that this is a separate person communicating with you not your own thoughts.
Where Theosis.. the idea is you wouldn't have that distinction. "Your" thoughts would literally be God's thoughts and it's not just that you as a separate person are in agreement with God's thoughts but those very thoughts don't seem to come from a distinct other person but just yourself.

I think that is flying a little too close to the sun as an idea.
I want relationship with God, fellowship with God, I don't want to be God.

Fair enough. I think that is a healthy reaction. The Eastern Orthodox will tell you, probably as the first thing, that pride is a serious danger, and drawing from Palamas, they will assert you don't become one with God's essence, but one with God's energies, so you don't become God, actually. You'll have to ask someone more well-versed in their theology to get better answers.

It's difficult to say what becomes of a person's identity. I don't know where you stand on the subject of prophets, since you're a baptist, but as a bible believing christian I'm sure you believe in the biblical prophets. So, if you think about it, if a prophet speaks the word of God, what is the identity of the one speaking? You kind of have to reflect on that a little bit to figure out what's going on. Is he like Muhammad who relies on angels to deliver the word? Or is something deeper, more spiritual happening? The story of Elijah suggests to us that God's Spirit is in the prophet, united in a sense. So at least you can see some sort of connection.

 

[Jamdoc]

Fair enough. I think that is a healthy reaction. The Eastern Orthodox will tell you, probably as the first thing, that pride is a serious danger, and drawing from Palamas, they will assert you don't become one with God's essence, but one with God's energies, so you don't become God, actually. You'll have to ask someone more well-versed in their theology to get better answers.

It's difficult to say what becomes of a person's identity. I don't know where you stand on the subject of prophets, since you're a baptist, but as a bible believing christian I'm sure you believe in the biblical prophets. So, if you think about it, if a prophet speaks the word of God, what is the identity of the one speaking? You kind of have to reflect on that a little bit to figure out what's going on. Is he like Muhammad who relies on angels to deliver the word? Or is something deeper, more spiritual happening? The story of Elijah suggests to us that God's Spirit is in the prophet, united in a sense. So at least you can see some sort of connection.

I see it as the Holy Spirit tells the prophet what to say, and the Prophet says it, or more exactly.. the Holy Spirit conveys the idea to say, and the Prophet communicates it, but has some flexibility in word choice. You can see it in scripture itself that different authors, all inspired by the Holy Spirit, have their own language peculiarities (especially Peter, he comes up with some interesting words doesn't he?). There's still a distinct voice of the human speaking the words, while the Spirit is telling them what to say.
It's 2 People in agreement, rather than 1 person.
You can tell the difference between a letter from Paul and a letter from Peter, you can identify the Good Physician's gospel apart from the other 2 Synoptic Gospels by the language he uses.

SO while I consider the bible to be the inerrant Word of God, there are also other people's words in it. God has accepted the Human author's words as His own, took ownership of them, to give those words His authority.
If it was the other way... God directly speaking the words through their mouth or their pen, rather than Inspiration, then the bible would seem to be written entirely by 1 author you wouldn't be able to distinguish Paul from Peter from Moses. There wouldn't be 3 synoptic gospels all with slightly different details but somehow all being correct, it would just be 1 account. or the 3 accounts would all say exactly the same thing word for word letter for letter.

 

[TheWhat?]

I see it as the Holy Spirit tells the prophet what to say, and the Prophet says it, or more exactly.. the Holy Spirit conveys the idea to say, and the Prophet communicates it, but has some flexibility in word choice. You can see it in scripture itself that different authors, all inspired by the Holy Spirit, have their own language peculiarities (especially Peter, he comes up with some interesting words doesn't he?). There's still a distinct voice of the human speaking the words, while the Spirit is telling them what to say.
It's 2 People in agreement, rather than 1 person.
You can tell the difference between a letter from Paul and a letter from Peter, you can identify the Good Physician's gospel apart from the other 2 Synoptic Gospels by the language he uses.

SO while I consider the bible to be the inerrant Word of God, there are also other people's words in it. God has accepted the Human author's words as His own, took ownership of them, to give those words His authority.
If it was the other way... God directly speaking the words through their mouth or their pen, rather than Inspiration, then the bible would seem to be written entirely by 1 author you wouldn't be able to distinguish Paul from Peter from Moses. There wouldn't be 3 synoptic gospels all with slightly different details but somehow all being correct, it would just be 1 account. or the 3 accounts would all say exactly the same thing word for word letter for letter.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I do think people remain who they are, and you're right, there is a kind of "ownership" depicted where a prophet's words are fulfilled. But if that were all it is, the overall portrait would look more like a variety of individuals who attained to some kind of superpower. Instead, there's a unity between speakers, and I do think there are portions of scripture from different authors that almost do seem to be from the same author, or at least the same mind, or wisdom, so to speak. As it pertains to the beliefs of the authors of the NT, I do not think they believed otherwise, as their doctrine describes that the community constituted the body of Christ, almost literally.

 

[LonelyAdams]

But I don't think it's to the point of losing your identity and just becoming a part of God, which is what I get from the concept of Theosis, it's too close to becoming God or like God yourself which is.. ultimately the first sin, the desire to do just that.

So as someone who has read a lot of theology (including a bit of eastern orthodox theology) I can say with 100% certainty that this is not what the concept of theosis is. No one teaching theosis is saying you being absorbed into some "god" (Thats more akin to some far east religions). one of the early church fathers describes theosis like sticking a piece of iron in a fire. If you stick metal in a fire it will take on the property of the fire (Heat,ability to light things on fire, change in color, ect.) however it never stops being metal, and it never becomes the fire. Similarly as Christians we should immerse ourselves in God and in doing so we take on the properties of God(Through his grace), but we don't become God, nore do we stop to be ourselves.

Its one thing if you don't believe in it, however you should make sure you correctly understand a theological idea before rejecting it.

 

[GospelS]

I can really relate man. I struggle with both lonlinessness and chronic illness. Its really hard cause a lot of people just don't understand what its like to live with chronic illness. people will tell you that you need to find ways to busy yourself but at some point you just can't anymore. Either the illness prevents it or you get so burned out and tired you can't anymore. then its really easy to fall into so bad habits cause you just want to not feel misserable or alone. Anything to feel a connection with someone, or to trick yourself into feeling a connection.

I don't have any real advice, I'll pray for you.

True. Hang in there, brother. God is at work in you. He is turning your heart into His heaven.

 

[HeartNSoul19]

The pandemic has brought loneliness world-wide --- I imagine that everyone regardless of their situation has experienced this feeling relative to before the pandemic.

Loneliness has already been an issue for the elderly as whole (in the US) and this pandemic has exacerbated it.

Thank God things are starting to look up and the world is beginning to move past this.

 

[Will Joseph]

There are a lot of things in life outside of marriage. And marriage isn't as great as some people think it is. Some people abuse marriage to rob men. My dad was robbed by his three wives.

There is always a chance that a marriage can go wrong too. Unless you know everything about your wife or can read her mind, you may never really know why she's marrying you or if she has a secret boyfriend.

Some women marry because they just need someone who can be a good friend or support rather than as a sex partner. Those women didn't have supportive family but needed some support, and they marry for the support rather than for the sex. And as the marriage progresses, and the women realize that the marriage was for sex, they tend to want to break away from the marriage.

Some women marry for legal benefits and nothing more. Some societies give legal benefits to married persons.

You may benefit from either exploring nonmarital things in life or observing the reality and failures of some real-life marriages.