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Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
FaithfulServant
The Lord directs my steps
If you found yourself on this message board asking advice about it...and continuing to have to say..."well, what if this....or, what about this..." You should realize that the holy spirit is probably convicting you of it.
If something is the right thing to do - we are usually able to do it without hesitation wondering if it is wrong. However, wrong things tend to make us stop and think.
If something is the right thing to do - we are usually able to do it without hesitation wondering if it is wrong. However, wrong things tend to make us stop and think.
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Sascha Fitzpatrick
Well-Known Member
Fact is, some people will feel convicted about particular behaviours, and some won't...
Some will have bible verses that back up the fact it is wrong, some will have bible verses that back up the fact there is no problem with it.
What you have to do in this situation, like every other situation you may find yourself in, is ask yourself whether God would be pleased by your behaviour with your flatmate, judging by what he says in the bible.
Then, once you've made the decision, you're the one who has to face God with that decision.
Simple!
It annoys me that there are people in here who say 'this is absolutely totally wrong, and you are participating in deliberate sin', and will not bother to see what the other side is saying.
It's well and good for you to say YOU believe it is wrong, but there is a lot of patronisation and judgement being placed on people, by people on the other side of the fence, when someone disagrees with their point of view.
That shows me a lack of maturity, and a desperate need to grow up and respect (I said respect NOT agree with) other people's opinions on situations like this.
Sasch
Some will have bible verses that back up the fact it is wrong, some will have bible verses that back up the fact there is no problem with it.
What you have to do in this situation, like every other situation you may find yourself in, is ask yourself whether God would be pleased by your behaviour with your flatmate, judging by what he says in the bible.
Then, once you've made the decision, you're the one who has to face God with that decision.
Simple!
It annoys me that there are people in here who say 'this is absolutely totally wrong, and you are participating in deliberate sin', and will not bother to see what the other side is saying.
It's well and good for you to say YOU believe it is wrong, but there is a lot of patronisation and judgement being placed on people, by people on the other side of the fence, when someone disagrees with their point of view.
That shows me a lack of maturity, and a desperate need to grow up and respect (I said respect NOT agree with) other people's opinions on situations like this.
Sasch
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Jesus-is-the-1
Got no doubt, boss
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Romans 14:19-21
Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
Looks like to me that it does have to do with other things rather than just eating. Living together before being married could very well cause others to fall. They see one couple living together and they may do it too...then the second couple might not be as strong to not have sex.chuck010342 said:
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boilerblues
Well-Known Member
Sascha Fitzpatrick said:
I agree with you in principle, but it's also important to remember that some of us have had experience (whether personally involved or we were connected to someone else involved) in these matters and have seen how they play out. Someone saying that they are going to live with someone they are dating and they aren't going to have sex shows that they are being rather naive about putting themselves in the way of temptation. Or they are lying to everyone or themselves. A part of any growing relationship is sexual desire, that's not wrong in and of itself. But if those desires are not properly placed in obedience to God, they are dangerous. Two people with growing desires living in the same house is a set up for failure. It's like two people saying they are going to live together, but they won't fight (surely a harsh word is easier to control than sexual temptation). yeah right....
How I approach the situation as a house church leader is this. If a guy and a girl are living together, but not in a romantic relationship, I am very uncomfortable with that set up. But I have no Biblical basis for telling them that is an inappropriate situation, I bite my tongue on that. However, I do feel that it is an unwise and immature decision and would probably not place that person in a leadership role until I feel that they are making more mature decisions in regards to relationships between men and women. I realize that some people may not agree with that view, you are welcome to disagree with me on that as I have no strong Biblical basis for stating that as a command from Scripture. I call that my opinion, I believe it well founded but I do not say anything to those I lead. Now if a guy and a gal in a romantic relationship are living in the same house/apartment, even if they claim they aren't having sex, I feel there's enough Biblical basis for that situation to approach it. I would take that situation to an elder and we would be approaching them in the manner according to Matthew 18. They are setting a very bad example for others and they are setting themselves up for failure. While it's possible they could avoid that, it's not terribly likely. In the situation I described earlier I did discuss it with an elder, we felt that because of their situation that made it a very ambiguous case. He spoke with them, but he could not offer anything other than wise advice as a friend. If it was Joe and Suzy that are both living here in town and they decided to move in together we would speak up, not to judge them but to keep them safe and the rest of the church body safe from the temptations that would arise from that situation. I don't want anyone else in my house church getting the idea that it's ok to live with someone they are dating or engaged to, even if they plan on not having sex they are also setting themselves up for failure.
If we think we can trust ourselves when faced with temptation then we are setting ourselves up for failure. We, in and of ourselves, are prone to sin and not strong enough to not give in to temptation. It is only by the power of the Holy Spirit that we can not give in to temptation. His first line of protection against tempation is not to put ourselves in the way of temptation. If we put ourselves in the way of temptation we will only be kept safe by the Holy Spirit if we choose to put our flesh to death and live by the Spirit. But how many of us are able to do that on a 100% consistant basis? If you can, please tell me how. I'd really like to know.
In regards to the person above that asked about the situation if they were both in school and got some other roommates, I'd still say bad idea. She can find some girls to room with and he can find some guys to room with, they are no worse for that situation and they keep their relationship in a safer place.
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chuck010342
Regular Member
northstar said:
The point I was making is that these people love eachother so, go ahead and get married. Is there any other reason?
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gweneviere
Regular Member
Like most people have mentioned or alluded to, the situation does nothing good for anyone spiritually. Even if the two are not in a relationship, it is easy to develop one when you are in such close quarters.
This is similar to he situation where one's parents won't let their child and their child's boyfriend/girlfriend in their house alone together. There is no scripture for this rule, but it is for the protection of both people. I think that people should consider putting themselves in that situation because it is pointless.
Like I said, it only makes things harder for you, so why do it? Regardless of whether or not there is a rule for it, it's not a good idea.
This is similar to he situation where one's parents won't let their child and their child's boyfriend/girlfriend in their house alone together. There is no scripture for this rule, but it is for the protection of both people. I think that people should consider putting themselves in that situation because it is pointless.
Like I said, it only makes things harder for you, so why do it? Regardless of whether or not there is a rule for it, it's not a good idea.
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"1 Thessalonians 5:22 (KJV)" says: "Abstain from all appearance of evil."
The tempation of something that could happen, can in my book be an appearance of evil.Therefore, you should never just live with lady that is not a family member.
The tempation of something that could happen, can in my book be an appearance of evil.Therefore, you should never just live with lady that is not a family member.
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lunalinda
Random. Raw. Real
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Well, personally speaking, I don't condone it. But it's not because of temptation, which of course can always exist, but it wouldn't be MY main problem. I'm not being prideful or anything, but I seriously don't have a fear of falling into having sex with my b/f if we were under the same roof. To me, there are ways to work with it if both people cooperate willingly. Sleep in different rooms. Lock the doors. Or heck, have a family member stay there until you're married. There's always SOMETHING to do. Living together doesn't mean living in the same ROOM together. But of course, that doesn't mean I recommend it, and I still don't.
And it's not for the appearance of evil that I don't condone it either. I'm not saying that I think it's not evil, though. I'm just saying that "the appearance of evil" is kinda vague. Say I go to the movies alot with a female relative. Nothing wrong with that, right? She's related. But if to everyone else I'm going to the movies with my lesbian lover, should I stop going to the movies with her because of the "appearance of evil" to those people? Well I certainly wouldn't think so. People will think whatever they like. I can be under the same roof with a male cousin who looks nothing like me, and it can STILL look evil. I can own a house and offer it as a place to stay for ANY male relative, and it'd look evil. So that's what I mean by vague. Practically anything in this world has the capability of looking evil.
Now here's why I DON'T condone living together: It takes away one of the joys I look forward to having when I'm married. It's seriously as simple as that. Personally speaking, there are things that I personally would rather have when I'm legally and spiritually bound to the man I want to spend the rest of my life with, and living together (under the same roof) is one of them. Just like everyone else, I want to be closer and spend more time with my significant other. But I'd rather experience that all at ONCE. So I can not only look forward to having sex, but also sharing homes, sharing beds, sharing rooms, sharing bathrooms (do you realize how CUTE it'll be to bicker over...say...shaving cream all in the sink?) I don't want my spouse to play the role of a husband, nor I his wife, when we're not even together like that yet. I want marriage to be an altogether DIFFERENT package than the single life, and that means...we can finally live literally TOGETHER without anyone assuming that anything's evil and wrong about it. "Playing house" just waters down one of the beauties of marriage in my opinion.
And it's not for the appearance of evil that I don't condone it either. I'm not saying that I think it's not evil, though. I'm just saying that "the appearance of evil" is kinda vague. Say I go to the movies alot with a female relative. Nothing wrong with that, right? She's related. But if to everyone else I'm going to the movies with my lesbian lover, should I stop going to the movies with her because of the "appearance of evil" to those people? Well I certainly wouldn't think so. People will think whatever they like. I can be under the same roof with a male cousin who looks nothing like me, and it can STILL look evil. I can own a house and offer it as a place to stay for ANY male relative, and it'd look evil. So that's what I mean by vague. Practically anything in this world has the capability of looking evil.
Now here's why I DON'T condone living together: It takes away one of the joys I look forward to having when I'm married. It's seriously as simple as that. Personally speaking, there are things that I personally would rather have when I'm legally and spiritually bound to the man I want to spend the rest of my life with, and living together (under the same roof) is one of them. Just like everyone else, I want to be closer and spend more time with my significant other. But I'd rather experience that all at ONCE. So I can not only look forward to having sex, but also sharing homes, sharing beds, sharing rooms, sharing bathrooms (do you realize how CUTE it'll be to bicker over...say...shaving cream all in the sink?) I don't want my spouse to play the role of a husband, nor I his wife, when we're not even together like that yet. I want marriage to be an altogether DIFFERENT package than the single life, and that means...we can finally live literally TOGETHER without anyone assuming that anything's evil and wrong about it. "Playing house" just waters down one of the beauties of marriage in my opinion.
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gweneviere
Regular Member
I really like what lunalinda said. It's too bad more people don't wait for that kind of relationship. It's almost expected that two people live together though. I've been dating my bf for over 3 years, but we aren't ready to get married, and people always think we live together. I, too, am waiting for that wonderful feeling of companionship and togetherness that comes with marraige. Waiting for it makes it just that much better.
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I agree with Lunalinda too... I think besides from all the reasons that are grounded in scripture or just "moral" reasons, it would kind of take away from a future marriage to play house with someone else.
I know everyone's going to think this is crazy and maybe even wrong of me, but honestly I'd rather marry someone who's had sex than someone who hasn't had sex but has lived with his girlfriend/fiance before. Because that's the kind of intimacy that I don't want him to share with someone else. I know it's probably different for people in this particular forum, but most people do have sex before they get married. I'm not saying it shouldn't be a big deal, but for lots of people it just isn't. Plus, there are lots of situations where people sort of "fall" into a sexual encounter - not saying they don't have choices or free will, but actually finding a home, moving in, and living together takes a lot more planning for most.
Okay, I think I'm just digging myself a hole... but my point is, I want to be the first person that my husband wakes up next to every morning. I want to be the first girl he's argued over furniture choices with. I want to be the first girl he has a joint answering machine message with, the same address as, the same key as. I guess if you knew for a fact that you were going to be with the person forever, then it might not hit me in quite a way, but the point is, you never know what's going to happen tomorrow, and until you are really married, you don't know if you're going to get married.
I just think you're hurrying into a gift best left for the one you're married to.
I know everyone's going to think this is crazy and maybe even wrong of me, but honestly I'd rather marry someone who's had sex than someone who hasn't had sex but has lived with his girlfriend/fiance before. Because that's the kind of intimacy that I don't want him to share with someone else. I know it's probably different for people in this particular forum, but most people do have sex before they get married. I'm not saying it shouldn't be a big deal, but for lots of people it just isn't. Plus, there are lots of situations where people sort of "fall" into a sexual encounter - not saying they don't have choices or free will, but actually finding a home, moving in, and living together takes a lot more planning for most.
Okay, I think I'm just digging myself a hole... but my point is, I want to be the first person that my husband wakes up next to every morning. I want to be the first girl he's argued over furniture choices with. I want to be the first girl he has a joint answering machine message with, the same address as, the same key as. I guess if you knew for a fact that you were going to be with the person forever, then it might not hit me in quite a way, but the point is, you never know what's going to happen tomorrow, and until you are really married, you don't know if you're going to get married.
I just think you're hurrying into a gift best left for the one you're married to.
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chanis
"scru mpt rule cent ...&a
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it would be placing yourself in a very tempting situation, I don't care how many years you've been in church or how spiritually mature you may think you are, the fact is taht we're sexual beings and being with someone we're attracted to 24/7 will make it hard to avoid sleeping with them...you're making your own trap to fall...
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As my brother in Christ please reconsider. This will allow sin into your house and whether or not you know it the enemy will take advantage of the situation. This could negatively impact your marriage and possible lead to divorce.
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awashinlove
all encompassingly. ~Mitch Hedberg
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Living with a significant other is extremely intimate; I wouldn't even think the matter could be seperated from sexual intimacy, to a point. I know for myself personally -- aside from the obvious moral reasoning, of course -- that when I stand at the alter vowing myself to my new husband and he himself to me, those vows will mark the start of life together, not just sleeping together.
Blessings,
awashinlove
Blessings,
awashinlove
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boilerblues
Well-Known Member
lunalinda said:
If you have a boyfriend make sure he gets a copy of this with your name on it....
There isn't much in the world that's more gross than a man and his bathroom. I'd bet you won't ever use the word cute when refering to that topic after marriage
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