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Literary Framework View & Exodus 20:11

JAL

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You skipped a question. Did Jesus’ healing merit praise? Were those labors burdensome?
You're insulting God if you praise Him for unstudied, unaccomplished, un-suffered, lazy-sloth skills. His healing merits praise for two reasons:
- He ACQUIRED that skill over time.
- He COMMITTED to dying on the cross to pay for our sins. Otherwise He couldn't grant us healing mercies in the first place.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You're insulting God if you praise Him for unstudied, unaccomplished, un-suffered, lazy-sloth skills. His healing merits praise for two reasons:
- He ACQUIRED that skill over time.
- He COMMITTED to dying on the cross to pay for our sins. Otherwise He couldn't grant us healing mercies in the first place.

In the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God. He didn’t have to acquire anything. I have no idea where you got that idea. Do you believe that Jesus was God at the time of His incarnation? And your changing the subject, Jesus was praised before His crucifixion and before anyone knew that He would be crucified. What do you think Hosanna means?
 
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JAL

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In the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God.
"The beginning" refers to the beginning/creation of our universe. The divine Word refers to the sum total of the divine substance and thus, ultimately, to all three holy Persons. That holiness merits praise only if Yahweh labored/suffered to acquire it.

He didn’t have to acquire anything. I have no idea where you got that idea.
Yes you do. You've read my posts and seem frustrated for lack of ample refutation.

Do you believe that Jesus was God at the time of His incarnation?
Jesus, Yahweh - the Three Persons have always been one God.

And your changing the subject, Jesus was praised before His crucifixion and before anyone knew that He would be crucified. What do you think Hosanna means?
First of all, Direct Revelation is authoritative. Whenever the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit convicted/convinced someone that God deserves praise, that injunction was binding even if they didn't comprehend why. The truth is, however, is that most biblical saints were advanced of us - they were not steeped in Plato's Greek philosophy like we are, hence they KNEW that God had labored/suffered to acquire His knowledge and skills.

Do you believe that Jesus was God at the time of His incarnation?
As a matter of fact, my metaphysics is the only one to date that makes sense of the Incarnation. Nothing else offered to date - especially the Hypostatic Union -provides a humanly comprehensible explanation of how God became man.
 
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BNR32FAN

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First of all, Direct Revelation is authoritative. Whenever the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit convicted/convinced someone that God deserves praise, that injunction was binding even if they didn't comprehend why. The truth is, however, is that most biblical saints were advanced of us - they were not steeped in Plato's Greek philosophy like we are, hence they KNEW that God had labored/suffered to acquire His knowledge and skills.

Yet none of these people who were praising Jesus thought He was God. They thought He was a prophet.
 
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BNR32FAN

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"The beginning" refers to the beginning/creation of our universe. The divine Word refers to the sum total of the divine substance and thus, ultimately, to all three holy Persons. That holiness merits praise only if Yahweh labored/suffered to acquire it.

Yes you do. You've read my posts and seem frustrated for lack of ample refutation.

Jesus, Yahweh - the Three Persons have always been one God.


First of all, Direct Revelation is authoritative. Whenever the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit convicted/convinced someone that God deserves praise, that injunction was binding even if they didn't comprehend why. The truth is, however, is that most biblical saints were advanced of us - they were not steeped in Plato's Greek philosophy like we are, hence they KNEW that God had labored/suffered to acquire His knowledge and skills.


As a matter of fact, my metaphysics is the only one to date that makes sense of the Incarnation. Nothing else offered to date - especially the Hypostatic Union -provides a humanly comprehensible explanation of how God became man.

Where do you get the idea that Jesus had to “acquire” the skill to heal people over time?
 
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JAL

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Where do you get the idea that Jesus had to “acquire” the skill to heal people over time?
No, the incarnate Jesus didn't heal anyone. On earth, He had to avail of the Father's knowledge and power via availing of the Third Person. Just like a modern healer would do today.

The Three jointly acquired those healing skills, before and during creation, via ages of labor/suffering.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I don't believe that.

Which He was.

You mean you refuse to admit that.

“On the next day the large crowd who had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took the branches of the palm trees and went out to meet Him, and began to shout, “Hosanna! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel.” Jesus, finding a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written,”
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭12‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

These people knew nothing of the Trinity because it had not been revealed yet. So they were shouting “blessed is God who came in the name of God”? The Israelites were monotheists they only believed in One deity One God they were completely oblivious to the Trinity. So it’s obvious that they were praising Jesus because they thought He was a prophet because of the miracles He had performed and had no idea that He was God in the flesh.

“So the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead, continued to testify about Him. For this reason also the people went and met Him, because they heard that He had performed this sign.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Refusing to admit the truth doesn’t change the truth and your definition of the word “merit” is not even accurate.

Merit-deserve or be worthy of (something, especially reward, punishment, or attention

If I won the lottery and I gave you a million dollars does that not MERIT gratitude or praise? Is it not deserving of gratitude or praise? Your giving a false definition of the word merit in order to build this entire false narrative to support your idea that the earth was not created in 6 literal days because if it was it wouldn’t merit any praise to God because it wasn’t burdensome for Him even tho I already pointed out that because God is both omnipresent and omnipotent nothing is burdensome for Him. He is outside of time. He exists in ALL TIME SIMULTANEOUSLY. Which means that everything takes place at the same time from His perspectives. Eternity is instantaneous to God. So even if it took Him all eternity to create the heavens and the earth according to your definition of merit it still wouldn’t merit Him any praise because it still wasn’t burdensome for Him since it was instantaneous from His perspective. So either way your argument doesn’t make any sense.
 
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BNR32FAN

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No, the incarnate Jesus didn't heal anyone. On earth, He had to avail of the Father's knowledge and power via availing of the Third Person. Just like a modern healer would do today.

The Three jointly acquired those healing skills, before creation, via ages of labor/suffering.

And your just pulling this out of thin air because this is not discussed in the scriptures.
 
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BNR32FAN

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No, the incarnate Jesus didn't heal anyone. On earth, He had to avail of the Father's knowledge and power via availing of the Third Person. Just like a modern healer would do today.

The Three jointly acquired those healing skills, before creation, via ages of labor/suffering.

If your just going to make things up as you go that are not even remotely discussed in the scriptures then I think we’re done with this discussion because it’s supposed to be a discussion of facts not imagination or fiction.
 
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JAL

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You mean you refuse to admit that.
Moot point. Direct Revelation is authoritative. If it convicted/convinced the conscience to praise Jesus, such was their obligation.

“On the next day the large crowd who had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took the branches of the palm trees and went out to meet Him, and began to shout, “Hosanna! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel.” Jesus, finding a young donkey, sat on it; as it is written,”
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭12‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

These people knew nothing of the Trinity because it had not been revealed yet. So they were shouting “blessed is God who came in the name of God”?
Moot point. Doesn't matter how you read it. After all, nobody I know, other than God, is understood to be three Persons. It is a paradox inevitably leading to some paradoxical statements.

Of course the Trinity had already been revealed. The Inward Witness reveals the same God to all of us - who is three Persons. Also verses such as John 3:16 suggest that the revelation was being made increasingly clear to Christ's contemporaries.

Is it possible the triune aspect of the revelation was still unclear to some of them? Doesn't matter, if Direct Revelation authorized them to praise Him. What are you trying to prove here? That people praised Jesus without proper warrant? If they did, Scripture certainly doesn't reprove them for it.

So it’s obvious that they were praising Jesus because they thought He was a prophet because of the miracles He had performed and had no idea that He was God in the flesh.
Human beings are supposed to praise each other for their accomplishments. Humans do acquire merit. Any prophet worth his salt had to labor/suffer his way into a degree of favor with God licensing him to perform miracles. I don't see that you're really proving much of anything significant here.

“So the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead, continued to testify about Him. For this reason also the people went and met Him, because they heard that He had performed this sign.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
That's not even an explicit example of praise.

Refusing to admit the truth doesn’t change the truth and your definition of the word “merit” is not even accurate.
So the cross merits the same amount of praise both with, and without, labor/suffering? You don't seriously believe that. Someday, God's going to evaluate your work on this earth. By what measure? The IQ you were born with? Your pretty blue eyes and blond hair? No. He will evaluate you based on the definition of merit that I gave you. In fact, almost every sermon in the last 2,000 years revolves around that definition, and rightly so.


If I won the lottery and I gave you a million dollars does that not MERIT gratitude or praise? Is it not deserving of gratitude or praise?
I'll answer with a question. Did it involve suffering? Suppose you suffered nothing because you were fully convinced I'd pay you back the next day. In that case there would be little merit - but there would still be SOME merit, because we always suffer the agony of temptation. Meaning, the devil was tempting you to be a cruel person who refuses to lend me the money. You had to suffer to endure and overcome that temptation.


I already pointed out that because God is both omnipresent and omnipotent nothing is burdensome for Him. He is outside of time. He exists in ALL TIME SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Incoherent assertion because none of us can comprehend atemporal consciousness. Again, consciousness is an ongoing stream of impressions more or less distinct('loud and clear'). Desistence of them is unconsciousness and/or death. The Three persons are a fellowship (they communicate/converse) which can ONLY be conceived as consecutive communications and thus as temporal. Also note that if God exists in my future - then my future already exists - which means I too exist in my future, thereby making me atemporal like God is.

The God presented to us in Scripture is a temporal being. Yahweh became angry with Moses at the burning bush. He wasn't angry with Moses from atemporal "eternity to eternity".

None of that atemporal nonsense makes ANY sense to the human mind. It's just hollow and deceptive Greek philosophy infiltrating Christianity.

Which means that everything takes place at the same time from His perspectives. Eternity is instantaneous to God. So even if it took Him all eternity to create the heavens and the earth according to your definition of merit it still wouldn’t merit Him any praise because it still wasn’t burdensome for Him since it was instantaneous from His perspective. So either way your argument doesn’t make any sense.
What doesn't make sense is your assumption of an atemporality contradictory to the only possible definition of merit.
 
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JAL

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And your just pulling this out of thin air because this is not discussed in the scriptures.
Um.er..Scripture teaches that God worked/labored and rested. It was YOUR decision to insinuate that Moses was lying when he claimed that God engaged in work/labor/suffering, followed by engaging in real rest.
 
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JAL

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If your just going to make things up as you go that are not even remotely discussed in the scriptures then I think we’re done with this discussion because it’s supposed to be a discussion of facts not imagination or fiction.
What did I fabricate?
 
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JAL

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@BNR32FAN

Just make sure you're not being stubborn here. You praise God for 1 day on the cross but not for 13 billion years of labor? You really want to risk robbing Him of that glory and having to confess it to Him on the last day? Be properly cautious about all this. Try not to rush prematurely to a preconceived conclusion.
 
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JAL

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And your just pulling this out of thin air because this is not discussed in the scriptures.
God says His ways are higher than ours - as high as the heavens above the earth. So let's take a look at YOUR view of God. He evaluates men based on real merit (I'm not really talking about salvation here). Yet He is a lazy sloth who did no labor/suffering to become holy while demanding the highest praise for it.

Such a God isn't higher than my ways - He is LOWER than my ways, as low as the earth is below the heavens.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Moot point. Direct Revelation is authoritative. If it convicted/convinced the conscience to praise Jesus, such was their obligation.

Except there’s indication of revelation anywhere in any of the gospel accounts pertaining to Jesus’ Triumphant Entry.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Of course the Trinity had already been revealed. The Inward Witness reveals the same God to all of us - who is three Persons. Also verses such as John 3:16 suggest that the revelation was being made increasingly clear to Christ's contemporaries.

No one had received the indwelling Holy Spirit yet because Jesus had not been glorified. So that doesn’t work either.
 
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BNR32FAN

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if Direct Revelation authorized them to praise Him. What are you trying to prove here? That people praised Jesus without proper warrant? If they did, Scripture certainly doesn't reprove them for it.

No your the one saying they praised Him without proper warrant. Your the one saying that if God did something that didn’t require intense labor that it doesn’t merit praise, not me. I’m saying the exact opposite that God’s work doesn’t require intense labor in order to merit praise. And yes your right the scriptures didn’t reprove them for praising Him because of the miracles He performed that didn’t require intensive labor because apparently God has no problem with people praising Jesus for performing miracles that were not cumbersome or burdensome.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Human beings are supposed to praise each other for their accomplishments. Humans do acquire merit. Any prophet worth his salt had to labor/suffer his way into a degree of favor with God licensing him to perform miracles. I don't see that you're really proving much of anything significant here.

But wait a minute you said they were praising Him because they knew He is God. Now your changing that position and saying they were praising Him because they thought He was a mere human? They hadn’t witnessed Him laboring or suffering when they praised Him. Jesus being God didn’t have to earn anything from The Father, being God He could perform miracles before creation. Hence “and everything that was created was created thru Him”.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That's not even an explicit example of praise.

Congratulations you just read the verse completely ignoring the surrounding context. Who are “the people who went to meet Him”? They were the people who were shouting Hosanna!! Next time it might be a good idea to actually read the surrounding context to understand what exactly is being said.
 
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