Literal Israel, Not Replacement Theology.

[Ranting]

According to this doctrine the Church rivals Israel by claiming that she is the "New Israel of the Spirit" superseding the "old Israel of the flesh". This incredibly arrogant claim of the Church found its legal expressions in the "Codex Justinian", which subsequently spawned the Inquisition, the Crusades, as well as multiple expulsions and pogroms. Whereas, today we see this theory manifest itself by calling for "even-handedness" in the Arab/Israel controversy. According to this theory all of G-d's promises to 'physical' Israel have been cancelled, as they have been transferred to 'spiritual' Israel - i.e. the Church. Thus they have tried to make this theory fit with literally hundreds, if not thousands, of prophecies and inspired statements in the Bible that refer to the ultimate "Restoration of Israel". Even though the contexts in which many of these inspired statements are set clearly indicate reference to a 'literal' and 'physical' restoration of the Whole House of Israel, they have tried to rationalize this by 'spiritualizing' them away. For centuries the church has tried to impose its own interpretation on scripture. The Bible, however, is a book about Israel , and Israel alone! The reason Christianity has largely ignored the prophecies about the House of Israel is because they totally mess up her theology. While Christians have a concept of 'personal redemption', 'national redemption' is something that is foreign to them. Yet nearly ninety percent of the prophetic books of the Bible are about the redemption of the House/Nation of Israel . If the established Christian Church today were to recognize that all these prophecies refer to a 'literal' and 'physical' Israel after all, her entire theological card house would collapse. With this crucial vested interest at stake, it should not surprise us that their leaders are wholly opposed to any idea of a physical, literal Israel playing any role in end-time eschatology.

 

[Ranting]

Catholics, Jws, Mormons, 7days and other so CALLED Christians a believe in replacement theology. Its a theology from the pit of Hell and they buy into it.

 

[Interplanner]

Gal 3:17 shows the original RT problem, but not as you think. The origianl problem was that Judaism was voiding and replacing the Promise (worldwide in Christ) with the Law (access to God's blessings through the Law). It is this paragraph of Paul, additionally, that shows that the promise is Christ and those in him. There is nothing else going on in the NT.

The modern RT problem is actually an attempt to impose 2P2P on the Bible; that is , the fundamental Dispensational belief that there are two skew (uncoordinating, unmeeting) peoples and programs. By anyone's standard this should seem schitzophrenic at best. Regardless of that, it is simply not in Gal 3-4, Eph 2-3, Hebrews, etc.

Let's only discuss the RT problem that has actual grounding.

 

[Ranting]

Martin Luther, was an anti-Semite.

And I mean a real, burn-down-their-houses-and-cut-off-their limbs anti-Semite. He called for violence, dismemberment, arson, expulsion, and death, and provided material that would later be used by Nazis to stir up anti-Jewish sentiment among the German people.
In a book entitled On Jews and Their Lies, Luther wrote:
“My advice, as I said earlier, is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...Second, that all their books-- their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible-- be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it…The rulers must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them. If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs." Like Martin Luther these so called Christians have no understanding of bible prophecy , What the bride of Christ means or what role Israel will play in Jacobs troubles. Its amazing that we have not come any further as Christians then in luthers day, The blind are still leading the blind in 2015 ! Or should I say Satan is leading the cultic Churches. Enjoy your walk with him.

 

[Interplanner]

I have no idea why you put that here. Paul wished to stop the beliefs of Judaism about justification in light of the coming of the Gospel. He mournd their unbelief and its consequences. and wrote Gal 3.

 

[BABerean2]

According to this doctrine the Church rivals Israel by claiming that she is the "New Israel of the Spirit" superseding the "old Israel of the flesh". This incredibly arrogant claim of the Church found its legal expressions in the "Codex Justinian", which subsequently spawned the Inquisition, the Crusades, as well as multiple expulsions and pogroms. Whereas, today we see this theory manifest itself by calling for "even-handedness" in the Arab/Israel controversy. According to this theory all of G-d's promises to 'physical' Israel have been cancelled, as they have been transferred to 'spiritual' Israel - i.e. the Church. Thus they have tried to make this theory fit with literally hundreds, if not thousands, of prophecies and inspired statements in the Bible that refer to the ultimate "Restoration of Israel". Even though the contexts in which many of these inspired statements are set clearly indicate reference to a 'literal' and 'physical' restoration of the Whole House of Israel, they have tried to rationalize this by 'spiritualizing' them away. For centuries the church has tried to impose its own interpretation on scripture. The Bible, however, is a book about Israel , and Israel alone! The reason Christianity has largely ignored the prophecies about the House of Israel is because they totally mess up her theology. While Christians have a concept of 'personal redemption', 'national redemption' is something that is foreign to them. Yet nearly ninety percent of the prophetic books of the Bible are about the redemption of the House/Nation of Israel . If the established Christian Church today were to recognize that all these prophecies refer to a 'literal' and 'physical' Israel after all, her entire theological card house would collapse. With this crucial vested interest at stake, it should not surprise us that their leaders are wholly opposed to any idea of a physical, literal Israel playing any role in end-time eschatology.

You have replaced Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh by changing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, with the word "then", which an adverb of time, in Romans 11:26.

You have replaced the One Seed in Galatians 3:16 with the many seeds.

You have taken scripture intended for the Church of Jesus Christ and claimed it was written to the Jews of the modern world.

You have replaced those who would not bow the knee to Baal, with the Baal worshippers.

The Church of Jesus Christ is not a "parenthesis" in God's Plan.
The Church is the Plan. There is no Plan B.

You have replaced the truth of God's Word with Scofield's fairy tale.

 

[Interplanner]

The original replacement issue that needs to be discussed is Judaism voiding or replacing the worldwide promise with the Law, Gal 3:17. Paul had to write that to clear that up.

 

[Berean777]

You have replaced Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh by changing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, with the word "then", which an adverb of time, in Romans 11:26.

You have replaced the One Seed in Galatians 3:16 with the many seeds.

You have taken scripture intended for the Church of Jesus Christ and claimed it was written to the Jews of the modern world.

You have replaced those who would not bow the knee to Baal, with the Baal worshippers.

The Church of Jesus Christ is not a "parenthesis" in God's Plan.
The Church is the Plan. There is no Plan B.

You have replaced the truth of God's Word with Scofield's fairy tale.

100% correct. If there was a plan B then there is no power in the cross. People who choose to focus on the observable fleshly Kingdom deny the power of the cross and deny the kingdom within them which the Holy Ghost, the only temple builder is building upon the foundation cornerstone Christ Jesus.

What cornerstone is fleshly Israel being built upon?

The Jews just like countless gentile nations must enter in through the narrow path through the justifying works on the cross at Calvary and the sanctifying works of the Holy Ghost as the one and only temple builder.

If you be people of faith then you need to preach to the Jews the gospel and once they accept the everlasting gospel, they must just like everyone else come conditionally through the blood covenant, otherwise they are no better than the atheists of the world or the Muslims of the world worshipping a god that they know not.

I believe that the first who were supposed to be the Jews will come as the last hour workmen through the justifying works of the cross and the sanctifying works of the Holy Ghost as the one and only temple builder.

As for a physical Kingdom on earth, that ushers in an earthly messiah, whereby the fairytale of Jews being accepting a Jewish Messiah as his first coming, is void of the cross and void of the Holy Ghost and therefore must be rejected in totality as being another gospel founded upon schofieldism.

 

[gospelfer]

BAB, Mr Rant was not suggesting a plan B for salvation, but merely that the prophecies about Israel will be fulfilled in full.

Rant, I want to warn you that just about anything you say about prophecy will be cast by the preterists into a false accusation against you that you are denying the Gospel and Christ's power. They will do this by spouting a bunch of general principles from the NT that everyone agrees are true, implying that you somehow disagree with basic Christian theology. But they will nowhere ever say how saved Jews living in their ancestral homeland violates Christian theology. And of course they cannot -- because it doesn't. But they will pretend.

It's just their little thing.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The problem with those who want God to be finished with His own namesake people of the New Name is that they haven't a clue to the fact that God has always had one, and only one, plan for Salvation, from before the foundation of the world, and that plan is "of the Jews", and will never change. His one plan is ongoing, and His first will be last and the last will be first, but those first are not going to ever be cast away, as Paul said in Romans, but first, before He takes up His work of bringing His own namesake people into His One and only One Way, that they were the keepers of the Vineyard for, [from the time He adopted them and brought them out of Egypt], the harvest of the Gentiles must be gathered into the "Barn" from whence the Seed came out, as is written in Haggai 2.

 

[Berean777]

The problem with those who want God to be finished with His own namesake people of the New Name is that they haven't a clue to the fact that God has always had one, and only one, plan for Salvation, from before the foundation of the world, and that plan is "of the Jews", and will never change. His one plan is ongoing, and His first will be last and the last will be first, but those first are not going to ever be cast away, as Paul said in Romans, but first, before He takes up His work of bringing His own namesake people into His One and only One Way, that they were the keepers of the Vineyard for, [from the time He adopted them and brought them out of Egypt], the harvest of the Gentiles must be gathered into the "Barn" from whence the Seed came out, as is written in Haggai 2.

Hoping they will come as the 11th hour workmen through the cross and under the blood covenant. Nationalistic ambitions have no place in God's plan. Jesus said I will draw all to me through death and onto resurrection. Where I am there you shall also be, for in my Father's house are many rooms and when I come, I will take you there in heaven where you will always be with me.

 

[Jipsah]

Rant, I want to warn you that just about anything you say about prophecy will be cast by the preterists into a false accusation against you that you are denying the Gospel and Christ's power.

Just one question then, "Gospelfer". In The Millennium, will the Church be superseded by Temple Judaism, and the Lord's sacrifice on Calvary be replaced by animal sacrifice? Your co-religionists have assured us, in these forums, that both these things are true. Do you deny them?

But they will nowhere ever say how saved Jews living in their ancestral homeland violates Christian theology.

Probably because it doesn't. The charge is stupid.

 

[Interplanner]

gospelfer,
the definition of "saved" in Romans, esp 11, is not of Jews being in their homeland. It is that those who believe are justified from their sins through Christ, as the quote from Isaiah about the new covenant says. It does not matter where we are geographically; we, in the sense of 9:24, because all believers are in this "Israel" that will be saved that he is speaking of.

So The line "all Israel will be saved" is uttered in victory about all those who believe the Gospel and persist in that faith. For Paul it resolves the sadness of what has happened to the ethnos Israel. Those who were not a people have now been made a people. He wrote Rom 11 (God through him) to prod them (his countrymen) into their mission, but he knows only the elect/remnant will respond to that. Rom 11 is not a prediction that all will one day believe; it is an urging. Besides how could "all" believe one day, when millions have perished in hardness beforehand?

 

[BabylonWeary]

Suffice it to say, there was/is/will be insanity trying to explain to anyone what was/is/will be happening to Israelites in Egypt. Nevertheless, a farmer plants a field, and as it grows the weeds appear, and it's a tangled mess to sort out. So, which gets raptured first, the weeds or the crops?

 

[Interplanner]

WEary,
go on. Do you mean it is inevitable that explaining modern Israel as prophecy fulfillment will become or feature insanity?

Does there "need" to be a modern Israel in its land for the Bible to be reliable?

 

[BABerean2]

BAB, Mr Rant was not suggesting a plan B for salvation, but merely that the prophecies about Israel will be fulfilled in full.

He seemed headed full blast down the road of Dispensational Futurism, without worrying about what scripture he demolished in the process, and also branding anyone who had a difference of opinion, as a minion of Satan.

He is living up to the name he is using.

I wonder if he just graduated from seminary?

His hit and run comments seem to be from the younger generation, using the format of social media.

We are privileged that he has decided to share his Bible scholarship with us.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

He seemed headed full blast down the road of Dispensational Futurism, without worrying about what scripture he demolished in the process, and also branding anyone who had a difference of opinion, as a minion of Satan.
He is living up to the name he is using.
I wonder if he just graduated from seminary?
His hit and run comments seem to be from the younger generation, using the format of social media.
We are privileged that he has decided to share his Bible scholarship with us.

That doctrine is a tuff nut to crack.......
I became a Preterist the first time I read the Bible thru back in 2008, so, just like those who are futurist dispensationalists today, I also will be an extremely hard nut to crack [as everyone here is well aware lol....]

Ephesians 6:

11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

http://graceonlinelibrary.org/dispensationalism/
.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking.

So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place..............