Limited atonement destroyed

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Dear A.W.: The Holy One is not contradicting His Holy nature! There is one passage of Canon using the word "limited", and take a guess who is doing the limiting? It is most certainly not the Unlimited One.

"For as by one man's disobedience polus were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall polus be made righteous."

This equation is equal on both sides: Adam1 & the Last Adam.

There is no passage in Scripture that uses the word "Trinity" either, but it is a well established doctrine piecing the Scriptures which speak to the doctrine of God together.

Another phrase for "limited atonement" is "particular redemption", and what is important is not whether the phrase itself is in Scripture but whether the meaning of the phrase, that is whether the doctrine is established in Scripture, which it is. The word "anthropology" is not in Scripture either, but the Scriptures clearly teach a doctrine of man, clearly the Scriptures speak to the nature of man.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Can the elect ever be said to be without Christ?

Be aliens from the commonwealth of Israel?

strangers from the covenants of promise?

having no hope?

without God in the world?

I guess it all depends on whether a person recognizes a past, present, and future context of salvation. I guess it depends on whether we make a distinction from an eternal aspect of time from a temporal aspect of time. In eternity the elect were never without Christ, but this is accomplished through temporal time with a past, present, and future context, where God conditions the experiences of the elect, such that His choices from eternity occur with certainty, not in terms of probability, not maybe, not chance, not random, but with certainty. God does not play the guessing game or play the lottery.

This should put to rest the Calvinistic thoughts that Jesus only came to save the elect.

Only in your dreams, keep dreaming if you like.

 

[Pneuma3]

I guess it all depends on whether a person recognizes a past, present, and future context of salvation. I guess it depends on whether we make a distinction from an eternal aspect of time from a temporal aspect of time. In eternity the elect were never without Christ, but this is accomplished through temporal time with a past, present, and future context, where God conditions the experiences of the elect, such that His choices from eternity occur with certainty, not in terms of probability, not maybe, not chance, not random, but with certainty. God does not play the guessing game or play the lottery.

You are correct when you say i guess, because that is all you got is a guess.

Scripture however tells us a different story, a story of Christ breaking down the wall and sending HIS ELECT to go and make DISCIPLES of ALL MEN.

Now it is obvious that those scripture tell us

at one time....... without Christ,aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenants of promise,having no hope and without God in the world.

That at one time these people were without God etc. So if it was only referring to the present time how come others in the present time had Christ, were of the commonwealth if Israel, were the people of the covenant, having hope and with God in the world?

 

[FineLinen]

Another phrase for "limited atonement" is "particular redemption", and what is important is not whether the phrase itself is in Scripture but whether the meaning of the phrase, that is whether the doctrine is established in Scripture, which it is.

Dear A.W.: There is no such animal as "particular redemption" which is alien to the Reconciliation that is not for us ONLY, but the reconciliation of the whole world. That is precisely what the hilasmos of the holos encompasses: the Reconciliation of the ALL.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Dear A.W.: There is no such animal as "particular redemption" which is alien to the Reconciliation that is not for us ONLY, but the reconciliation of the whole world. That is precisely what the hilasmos of the holos encompasses: the Reconciliation of the ALL.

1 Corinthians 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1 Corinthians 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

With the above Scriptures in mind, you will probably have to define and revise what you mean by "the reconciliation of all" because the writers of Scriptures do not conflict, and context is always important.

 

[Pneuma3]

1 Corinthians 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1 Corinthians 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

With the above Scriptures in mind, you will probably have to define and revise what you mean by "the reconciliation of all" because the writers of Scriptures do not conflict, and context is always important.

quote the rest of it.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Seems that they can enter in after all, just not in the state they are in.

And such were some of you

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

quote the rest of it.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Seems that they can enter in after all, just not in the state they are in.

And such were some of you

WERE is past tense.

 

[Pneuma3]

WERE is past tense.

exactly, so it shows that those who are

1 Corinthians 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1 Corinthians 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

can enter in, just not in the state they are in.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

exactly, so it shows that those who are

can enter in, just not in the state they are in.

Wrong, it is past tense, meaning they formerly practiced such things, not that they were at the time of Paul's writing to them, not that they continued in such. ARE would be present tense, and mean they are presently (at that time) engaged in such. If they are, then the warning from Paul holds true.

 

[Pneuma3]

Wrong, it is past tense, meaning they formerly practiced such things, not that they were at the time of Paul's writing to them, not that they continued in such. ARE would be present tense, and mean they are presently (at that time) engaged in such. If they are, then the warning from Paul holds true.

No I am not wrong. Paul is saying that as long as one continues to sin they cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven while they yet sin until they are washed, are sanctified, are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

And this has NOTHING to do with anything after death, it speaks of the here and now.

 

[Pneuma3]

Wrong, it is past tense, meaning they formerly practiced such things, not that they were at the time of Paul's writing to them, not that they continued in such. ARE would be present tense, and mean they are presently (at that time) engaged in such. If they are, then the warning from Paul holds true.

No I am not wrong. Paul is saying that as long as one continues to sin they cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven while they yet sin until they are washed, are sanctified, are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

And this has NOTHING to do with anything after death, it speaks of the here and now.

Also if you think this has anything to do with the afterlife you have missed the mark and have become as those who would hinder people from entering into the kingdom of Heaven NOW.

 

[FredVB]

I guess it all depends on whether a person recognizes a past, present, and future context of salvation. I guess it depends on whether we make a distinction from an eternal aspect of time from a temporal aspect of time. In eternity the elect were never without Christ, but this is accomplished through temporal time with a past, present, and future context, where God conditions the experiences of the elect, such that His choices from eternity occur with certainty, not in terms of probability, not maybe, not chance, not random, but with certainty. God does not play the guessing game or play the lottery.

Calvinism has this problem, with uncertainty, and is useless then. It is only second guessing to define who are the individuals who are the elect. They can't be known on an individual basis. The elect are just those who hear and respond with essential faith in Jesus Christ, repenting of sin that is against Yahweh, to come to God in relationship, and are those who endure to the end. Calvinists like any of us don't know who those are before, just God knows. We shouldn't guess but share the gospel with any who would listen to us to hear it. It is revealed to us God is not willing that any perish, but would have all come to needed repentance. We cannot rightly guess that some are not the elect and not bother telling them of the way, for that. When some show they come to Christ, we can believe with it likely that they really are of the elect, those saved in Christ. A few might turn away from it at some time, sooner or later. They knew of the truth, but were not sincere, with essential faith with the repentance and love for God, in Christ. The enemy uses this to discourage some among the believers, and they are shaken. But God knows always they are not among the elect who are saved. We have much more assurance with those we know well personally. We know only with certainty with it shown for us those who endure the end are those who are saved. From what we have revealed, God does not want any to perish, and Calvinism is of no use for us to decide who should hear the gospel message and who we should not bother with to share it. The gospel is for all who can to hear.

 

[Gensys]

So, whichever way we put it. It all turns out limited

 

[FineLinen]

No I am not wrong. Paul is saying that as long as one continues to sin they cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven while they yet sin until they are washed, are sanctified, are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

And this has NOTHING to do with anything after death, it speaks of the here and now.

Do you know what it means to be in/en Christ?

If so, you are on your way to understanding....

In/en the Name of Jesus every knee shall bow & every tonque confess. You are Lord.

The scope of the confession =

The heavens, the earth & the underworld

 

[FineLinen]

So, whichever way we put it. It all turns out limited

The God of Un is not limited.

There is only one Scripture using the word limited...

You have limited the Holy One of Israel."