"Like Any Drug..."

[McScribe]

You're preaching to the choir on how people *should* think. I agree completely.

But the thing is - sexual nature of not - that's just not how people think generally.

Yeah - they're objectifying the woman and not considering her past, present or future. But that's not unique to sexual things. That's across the board.

I'd argue the average person who goes into Denny's doesn't look at the 45 year old woman serving them, and give a greater tip because most likely she's got a couple of kids at home that she's struggling to afford providing for, with a failed marriage to some guy that ain't paying child support...absent of health insurance to care for whatever ailments might be starting to set in now that she's approaching middle age. To most people - she's simply the lady that's bringing the food - and her tip will be commensurate with how congenial she is at that moment.

People *should* be more observant. People *should* look beyond the superficial utility that they assign to every other individual in life. People *should* do a lot of different things. But - they don't...in anything. That's just basic human nature - and it's a shame.

The trick in my mind is to convince them that there is that reality that *should* be taken into consideration...and not just in areas like porn...but in every other avenue of life.

I generally agree with this.

I've tried to say this kind of thing in a couple of posts. Perhaps you're saying it better than I have.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

You're preaching to the choir on how people *should* think. I agree completely.

I was just responding to you saying I was making a bigger deal out of it than I should.

All I'm saying is there's a lack of empathy.

I never said anyone did it knowingly.

 

[DZoolander]

 

[DZoolander]

If there's anything this tragedy can teach us, it's that a male model's life is a precious precious thing...and that even though we have chiseled abs and stunning features...it doesn't mean that we can't not die too in a freak gasoline fight accident.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

:d:d:d

 

[seeingeyes]

Saying pornography is a sin doesn't mean it has to automatically be adultery or traumatizing horror or anything else to freak out about.

This is true, but saying that the whole porn industry is perpetuated by a lack of empathy is quite a different thing than saying, "You saw boobies?! You're going to hell!"

Think of it this way: Ask yourself what kind of life/mind/emotions you would have to have to go out in the morning and have some guy (or guys) that you met fifteen minutes ago rail on you for a bit, and then jizz in your face. Then you have a cup of coffee and pick up your paycheck.

Does that sound like a viable profession to you? I'm guessing the answer is no. And I'm guessing the answer would be 'no' for the women currently involved in porn if their circumstances were different. And if you were in those same circumstances, you might find yourself changing your mind.

The need for a paycheck is not the only mitigating factor, here, and neither is the fact that it's largely women who choose this profession (lack of empathy is just as much a problem with regard to men in gay porn, so it's not 'femaleness' that is important).

So it's not that folks in the porn industry have all been dragged off in chains and forced to make videos, but it is an industry that is fueled by corruption and dysfunction. (Can you think of another industry that would be shut down tomorrow if every woman involved had had a father who actually liked her?) And, yes, the customers who pay for all of this (whether with cash or with clicks) support the corruption, whether they 'think of it that way' or not.

 

[McScribe]

Sorry, but am I in some way saying that people who are involved with pornography are somehow doing wonderfully, and that they are not deserving of our empathy? Am I in some way implying that there's something good about it?

I've said more than once that I don't think those things. Alright. I think it's bad. Discussion over. Enjoy.

 

[seeingeyes]

Sorry, but am I in some way saying that people who are involved with pornography are somehow doing wonderfully, and that they are not deserving of our empathy? Am I in some way implying that there's something good about it?

I've said more than once that I don't think those things. Alright. I think it's bad. Discussion over. Enjoy.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did. Just that porn is a bigger topic than, say, it's effect on a couple of teenage boys who find a nudie mag in the garbage somewhere. I agree with you that the souls of those boys aren't mutilated for life just 'cause they now know for sure that females have nipples. You are absolutely right that there is a lot of hysteria around this topic.

And that's not good either.

Edit: For that matter, can you imagine being one of these guys who considers himself a worthless, unsaveable piece of crap every time he dares to look at a bare shoulder in the summertime?

My heart breaks for these folks. Lord have mercy.

 

[McScribe]

Thank you, I do realize it is a bigger topic, and I appreciate what you said about it.

What I was actually joining in with the topic here about was to point out that it is not universally addictive, nor does it automatically mean you're going to pursue weirder and weirder stuff, and nor does it mean that you'll automatically start to despise women. People seem to present it as though it's some kind of magical spiritual cancer rather than just sadly typically of how fallen we are from living by the compassion that Christ taught. A woman doesn't have to have been abused to be tempted into pornography for example--heck, you just have to live in an immoral world to have no sense of how to value yourself. We all live in an immoral world.

 

[true2theword]

I'm starting to get the feeling that I'm talking to myself in this and I have tried pointing out that no one in this thread actually approves of porn use.

I guess what you missed was not the approval of porn, but it was the approval of what porn manifest, and that would be masturbation, its having sex with yourself, a form of idolatry, maybe could even borderline on homosexual behavior, since one is having sex with their own sex organ.

it appears there are a few here that imagine God doesnt see it as sexual immorality to have sex with an inadament object such as a blow up doll or a warm apple pie or your hand, for some reason if a real vagina is not involved, then really pretty much its not sex

even though it involves the sex organ, the mind, and reaching an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], somehow this is not a form of sex

I'm not sure where this reasoning comes from since homosexuality among men has no vaginas involved and men lying with men is seen as an abomination, somehow you can lie with anything other than human and God is going to be giving you the thumbs up

whats completely odd to me is the reaction to this sin as merely fiddling with pink bits (which to me is really is weird because I've not encountered any man who refered to his penis as a "bit"
maybe thats just zoolanders personal problem


even more odd is the reaction to someone who has found freedom in Christ Jesus, which if I would came in contact with years ago, would of drilled them for information of how they got free, because I had not seared my conscience like a hot iron

 

[Hetta]

There is no point in discussing this if you are going to insist on feminist doctrine as fact. Sometimes between your opinion and my opinion lies the truth.

What is your opinion?

I hear a lot of windy talk from feminists and church people alike who say that they'd like to fight porn, but they're only interested in hearing the confessions or talk from people who confirm what they already believe.

Says who?

This thread is no exception--insistence that the vast majority of women in pornography are terrorized victims and that men who enjoy it are monsters, or else people talking about issues that no one was even discussing as an effort to just say "let's paste some Bible verses on this to make it go away". No wonder there are issues.

Where did anyone say that the men who enjoy porn are monsters? I don't recall saying that the women were "terrorized" victims - but victims they certainly are.

No wonder there are issues.

There are issues because porn use is treated too lightly to begin with. Where are the fathers who should be telling their sons about porn? They aren't there - probably because they are too using porn and shy away from the topic. There wouldn't be issues if men didn't pick up porn. Just don't pick it up. Don't engage with it. That's the end of the issue. No demand - no supply.

 

[Hetta]

I guess what you missed was not the approval of porn, but it was the approval of what porn manifest, and that would be masturbation, its having sex with yourself, a form of idolatry, maybe could even borderline on homosexual behavior, since one is having sex with their own sex organ.

it appears there are a few here that imagine God doesnt see it as sexual immorality to have sex with an inadament object such as a blow up doll or a warm apple pie or your hand, for some reason if a real vagina is not involved, then really pretty much its not sex

even though it involves the sex organ, the mind, and reaching an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], somehow this is not a form of sex

I'm not sure where this reasoning comes from since homosexuality among men has no vaginas involved and men lying with men is seen as an abomination, somehow you can lie with anything other than human and God is going to be giving you the thumbs up

whats completely odd to me is the reaction to this sin as merely fiddling with pink bits (which to me is really is weird because I've not encountered any man who refered to his penis as a "bit"
maybe thats just zoolanders personal problem

Masturbation is a release - it's not idolatory. And if you think that masturbation is homosexuality, I'm really really sorry for you.

even more odd is the reaction to someone who has found freedom in Christ Jesus, which if I would came in contact with years ago, would of drilled them for information of how they got free, because I had not seared my conscience like a hot iron

I have no idea what this means.

 

[DZoolander]

Gotta say - if that guy is serious - I sincerely feel sorry for him.

This is seriously *the* topic that drove me away from the church - so I'm pretty familiar with the line of reasoning. The simple fact of the matter is that there is not a word in the Bible about masturbation...and his stance is based only upon some bizarre set of connections/chain of causality he's created in his mind.

"Masturbation leads to lust which leads to sexual immorality"/etc...and as the Word says...the sexually immoral will not have salvation.

Wonder how people might think this works into the whole "subjugate your reason to the 'word'" argument we're having?

 

[Hetta]

There is nothing in the Bible about masturbation I think? People quote Onan, but I have also heard that his sin was in the spilling of seed in that specific context. He was rebelling against God in that instance.

 

[DZoolander]

Yep - the only thing you could stretch it to include would be Onanism - which actually was Onan ignoring his Levirate marital obligations - and he was practicing the pullout method.

So that would be a HUGE stretch when taken in it's proper context.

...and for the record...

Who's the author that he quotes that's set him on this paranoid belief structure? Any time anyone says something that just flies in the face of Godly reason - or has just a really distorted belief structure filled with fire, brimstone and damnation, who do they quote? Is it equal parts Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jesus, etc?

Nope - it's always one guy.

 

[true2theword]

Masturbation is a release - it's not idolatory. And if you think that masturbation is homosexuality, I'm really really sorry for you.


I have no idea what this means.

Masturbation is a release?

fornication is a release, lewd acts are a release
So is masturbation a form of sex or not? are you not having sex with yourself or not?

today people are they're own idols, they worship themselves, they love themselves so much they are lovers of themselves in more ways than one
you most certianly can commit idolatry by worshiping yourself

 

[true2theword]

There is nothing in the Bible about masturbation I think? People quote Onan, but I have also heard that his sin was in the spilling of seed in that specific context. He was rebelling against God in that instance.

there is many biblical text that talk about purity and lust, lewd behaviors, and behaviors to shameful to mention, and again there are no scriptures forbidding child molestation, so are you going to jump on the band waggon for that also

 

[true2theword]

Yep - the only thing you could stretch it to include would be Onanism - which actually was Onan ignoring his Levirate marital obligations - and he was practicing the pullout method.

So that would be a HUGE stretch when taken in it's proper context.

...and for the record...

Who's the author that he quotes that's set him on this paranoid belief structure? Any time anyone says something that just flies in the face of Godly reason - or has just a really distorted belief structure filled with fire, brimstone and damnation, who do they quote? Is it equal parts Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jesus, etc?

Nope - it's always one guy.

So is it your understanding you pretty much can screw anything under the sun other than animals and humans and this would not be sexual immorality, Is this the Christian doctrine you hold to as truth?

 

[DZoolander]

So is it your understanding you pretty much can screw anything under the sun other than animals and humans and this would not be sexual immorality, Is this the Christian doctrine you hold to as truth?

Other than humans and animals?

Are you talking about trees, the ficus we have outside, maybe an orange or an apple pie?

 

[true2theword]

Other than humans and animals?

Are you talking about trees, the ficus we have outside, maybe an orange or an apple pie?

just answer the question? can you have sex with anything other than animals and humans and it is not considered sexual immorality

its not a difficult question!