light drinking and smoking still sinful?

[friend of]

Okay so I'm aware that these things are idolatry but scripture also mentions drunkeness specifically.

I feel like they are, unequivocally, sinful vices to do even in moderation, and this is the conclusion I've reached not too long ago. They are lusts of the flesh, right? I'm looking for some reassurance. I don't want to deceive myself in my heart, but that's why I made this thread in the first place. I've acknowledged that this is probably the reality here.

I don't want to be like the one who says "I'll do this now and repent later" because then I am knowingly incurring sin in my life and disobeying.

I just bought a pack of smokes (first one all week) I haven't had any beer or drinks this week, but tomorrow I'm thinking of drinking a few beers.

Is this bad?? How bad?? Do you drink yourself or did you give it up to sanctify yourself for the Lord??

 

[faroukfarouk]

It's harmful self indulgence - especially smoking and drinking to excess? - that one should avoid.

As it happens, I neither drink nor smoke at all, and I think I am better off.

I don't believe in beating up on those who are trying to quit smoking, but not yet succeeding.

 

[friend of]

How about beating up on people who still drink occasionally ?

Thanks! I'm reducing but used to drink every chance I got (to excess). Lately that self-destructive penchant has been relieved to an extent that I would not have been able to have imaged before, which I fully attribute as being a miraculous gift of Christ, given my history of drinking of several years and alcoholism in genetics (one side of family are all drinkers, but most are taking A.A. very seriously)

I don't want to be a slave to any vice and don't even know why I want to drink (before it was to fill a void, to be certain). I guess it's to hit a creative peak for writing.

 

[Zurückschlagen]

Okay so I'm aware that these things are idolatry but scripture also mentions drunkeness specifically.

I feel like they are, unequivocally, sinful vices to do even in moderation, and this is the conclusion I've reached not too long ago. They are lusts of the flesh, right? I'm looking for some reassurance because I want to deceive myself in my heart. I've acknowledged that this is probably the reality here.

I don't want to be like the one who says "I'll do this now and repent later" because then I am knowingly incurring sin in my life and disobeying.

I just bought a pack of smokes (first one all week) I haven't had any beer or drinks this week, but tomorrow I'm thinking of drinking a few beers.

Is this bad?? How bad?? Do you drink yourself or did you give it up to sanctify yourself for the Lord??

It's bad. Really bad. You're filling your organism and core with toxic waste. Your stomach will become a wasteland. I too had some struggle. My advice, do it once and forget it. Smoke a pack, inhale the toxic waste, and you'll probably have enough of it. But if you go and buy another pack, you sir have an addiction and you need to shut that [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] down. Same goes for alcohol.

 

[Dave-W]

I grew up in a congregation that taught that even smelling alcohol (accidentally) was the sin of drunkenness and cost you your salvation. I heard numerous sermons on the evils of Listerine, Scope, Vanilla extract, (or any product that had alcohol) and how all kinds of people killed off their eternal life for owning and using these products.

So in high school I did a lengthy bible study to either verify or debunk this teaching. I found no support for it at all. Indeed, I found only ONE VERSE out of all 66 books that COMMANDED us to not get drunk. (Eph 5.18) Yes, there were several that cited bad effects of being drunk, but there were no actual commands to accompany those effects.

And Eph 5.18, in context, was contrasting being drunk with being in the Spirit. (which at times appeared to be drunkenness, like Acts 2) SO I do drink in moderation, NEVER to the point of drunkenness.

 

[Dave-W]

Same goes for alcohol.

WWJD??? He drank alcoholic wine.

 

[Zurückschlagen]

“It is not for kings, Lemuel-- it is not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer.”

“Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.”

 

[com7fy8]

Okay so I'm aware that these things are idolatry but scripture also mentions drunkeness specifically.

Hi, Friend Of God bless you, and welcome to Christian Forums

I understand that idolatry is however we put anything or anyone in the place of or ahead of God. So, this can mean that anything or anyone can be an idol.

So, what about smoking and drinking? Smoking can be medically harmful, plus it can be a waste of money which you could invest in something more healthy to enjoy. Also, you could use the money to benefit a church or people in need. I don't see any point in any smoking, at all, because it is unclean for the body and I don't see how it can be desirable.

But ones might say it is relaxing. Well, Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30). And this soul rest of Jesus is deeper and better and nicer feeling than what any substance can produce for us, I offer. Because Jesus effects us spiritually, and not only physically. So, if I use any substance, not only tobacco, for relaxing myself because I am not submitting to how Jesus gives us rest, then this is in the place of Jesus, I consider. Plus, as I have indicated, what I get from a substance is so inferior to how God in us does us good.

But God does give us "richly all things to enjoy," we have in 1 Timothy 6:17. There are many nice and healthy things to enjoy and we can relax while enjoying these things. So, any enjoyment which you get from smoking, I consider, would be quite inferior to what is healthy. But this could mean we need even correction so we are capable of enjoying what is really better; and what is better might not give us the intense pleasure and feeling which something not good might give us. So, we need to become able to accept and appreciate the nicer but not so intense enjoyment of what God has for us.

In God's love, we already are satisfied before we start to enjoy some physical enjoyment. So, we can be satisfied, even though the physical thing is very gentle and humble in its effect But people in loneliness and boredom can be driven to seek adrenaline-rush excitements and other pleasures, in order to try to make the loneliness and boredom go away. However, the grace of God's love is almighty to make that boredom and loneliness go away, without any help from physical things; plus, this grace of God's love makes us not only satisfied but in personal sharing with God Himself so more desirable than all life >

"Because Your lovingkindness is better than life,
.My lips shall praise you." (Psalms 63:3)

And learning how to love with Christian brothers and sisters is so more beneficial and fulfilling, and such a more interesting challenge But this takes real correction of God > Hebrews 12:4-11 > not merely reforming your behavior because you are worried about your health and finances and guilt. Plus, we want to be good examples to our children and our Christian brothers and sisters. God is trusting us to love our children, by being His example of how to relate in love and take care of ourselves right.

So, I would say we need to not be overly busy with only how smoking might be sinful and we are guilty. But get more attentive to how God desires for us to share with Him and submit to Him and learn how to relate in love with one another and be His good examples.

 

[RaymondG]

Okay so I'm aware that these things are idolatry but scripture also mentions drunkeness specifically.

I feel like they are, unequivocally, sinful vices to do even in moderation, and this is the conclusion I've reached not too long ago. They are lusts of the flesh, right? I'm looking for some reassurance because I want to deceive myself in my heart. I've acknowledged that this is probably the reality here.

I don't want to be like the one who says "I'll do this now and repent later" because then I am knowingly incurring sin in my life and disobeying.

I just bought a pack of smokes (first one all week) I haven't had any beer or drinks this week, but tomorrow I'm thinking of drinking a few beers.

Is this bad?? How bad?? Do you drink yourself or did you give it up to sanctify yourself for the Lord??

There is nothing unclean in and of itself. But to him who thinks a thing unclean....to him it is unclean. What a man thinketh in His heart.....so is he.

So the only thing that really matters is what you believe....not what you type or what you say....but what you believe in your heart.

You think smoking and drinking is bad and will cause you to die sooner? Than yes, to you it is bad and will cause you to die sooner. You believe your family history of drinking means that you have to fall under the same snare? Then yes, it does mean exactly what you believe, and what you believe will happen will happen.

I myself, chose to stop eating of the fruit of the knowledge of Good and evil.....so i try to only see good. Whatsoever thing are of good report.......think of those things.

I dont have a desire to smoke anything so i dont.....not because it will kill me, or it is a "sin." I just dont want to.

I love drinking wine.....from a wine glass....and do it very often... please dont give me no wine in a plastic cup....has to be a wine glass or nothing at all!

That being said..... all things are lawful, but not expedient. I've never been drunk, I would not consider drinking wine close to a time when I have to leave the house, I dont have any negative beliefs about drinking (or anything else), And i would not do this around anyone with a strong believe against it, so to not hinder their salvation or cause conflicts.

If any of the above were different, It would not be wise for me to drink anything.....Not unlawful, but unwise.

So the real question is.... What do you believe?

 

[Goodbook]

I used to work with nurses who smoked. It was pretty disgusting as they were meant to be health professionals but here they were poisoning themselves and everyone around them with their smokes. We even had a sign outside the library designating a smokefree area but they ignored it. So anyone walking into the library got choked by their drug habits, esp children.

At least they dont do it inside. But in one tertiary library, the smokers would smoke near the vent and the smoke would drift into the building and poison the workers and books inside.

I dont personally know any christians that smoke cigarettes as its a complete waste of money and unhealthy the only smoking christians would do is smoke fish on the bbq.

 

[Goodbook]

As for alcohol you need to ask God to take the craving away its bad for you. I know some people drink to forget and it is provided for people to poison themselves if theyve done something terrible they dont want to remember, but God has a better way, just ask Him to forgive you what youve done.

He can take away sins as far as east is from west to remember them no more.

Besides alcohol is pretty disgusting and smelly too its better to drink healthy drinks like tropical smoothie.

 

[friend of]

Thanks and blessings to you all for responding (getting reacquainted with blessing people in conversations!) I'll respond a little now and a little later~

I understand that idolatry is however we put anything or anyone in the place of or ahead of God. So, this can mean that anything or anyone can be an idol.

From what I've come to discern, the second commandment is easily the most complex one in my perspective. One article that I read breaks it down into 4 components:

What are some modern forms of idolatry?

Short List
First, we worship at the altar of materialism...
Second, we worship at the altar of our own pride and ego...
Third, we idolize mankind—and by extension ourselves—through naturalism and the power of science.
Fourth, and perhaps most destructively, we worship at the altar of self-aggrandizement or the fulfillment of the self to the exclusion of all others and their needs and desires

I found it interesting and it gave me lots to reflect upon with respect to the 2nd.

And learning how to love with Christian brothers and sisters is so more beneficial and fulfilling, and such a more interesting challenge But this takes real correction of God > Hebrews 12:4-11 > not merely reforming your behavior because you are worried about your health and finances and guilt.

You touched upon this when you mentioned loneliness and boredom. Both are present. I recognize that I do need to reach out and that having a richer social network is invariably a positive for anyone struggling with addictions. More people is a good thing to me now, where before I enjoyed seclusion to excess. Those verses are an accurate if stark reminder for the rest of my day. The main reason I worry is not about health or finances, though they do have a role in the decision process, but I really am taking a moral inventory right now and trying to apply myself to what the Lord instructs of us in order to present myself as best I can. I would prefer to reduce my transgressions to as minimal as can be.

I dont have a desire to smoke anything so i dont.....not because it will kill me, or it is a "sin." I just dont want to.

That's the thing, I do!

There is nothing unclean in and of itself. But to him who thinks a thing unclean....to him it is unclean. What a man thinketh in His heart.....so is he.

So the only thing that really matters is what you believe....not what you type or what you say....but what you believe in your heart.

Right, but my old way of thinking was flawed and without Christ. I'm trying to attune myself more to what He wants me to think and believe. Many of my old ways of thinking are actually degenerating and are being replaced by new ones that feel much better, and It's only thanks to learning of God's word and will!

 

[friend of]

At least they dont do it inside. But in one tertiary library, the smokers would smoke near the vent and the smoke would drift into the building and poison the workers and books inside.

I don't smoke inside for sure. If they are working in a hospital then there is no way they would be allowed to get away with smoking inside. I don't know of anyone under 70 who thinks it's a good idea to smoke inside an enclosed space in 2017 lol

 

[friend of]

WWJD??? He drank alcoholic wine.

And thankfully DaveW-Ohev was kind enough to provide me with my out. Bless you sir! (or ma'am, I'm not sexist)

 

[Goodbook]

Actually hed didnt, he refused it even when dying on the cross. He only drank NEW wine, which is not the same as OLD wine i.e alcoholic.

 

[Goodbook]

I think people try and justify their sin by saying I can have a little bit. But would you give this old wine to a child? Only if you were trying to drug them.

 

[Goodbook]

Notice when Jesus peformed his miracle, he turned water into wine. He didnt leave it to ferment. It was done that day. In bible times wine refers to drink made from grapes. Yes you CAN preserve grape juice without it going OFF which is what old wine is, rotten grapes.

When Jesus says eat and drink to remember me, he is not convincing everyone to drink alcohol.

 

[Dave-W]

Actually hed didnt, he refused it even when dying on the cross. He only drank NEW wine, which is not the same as OLD wine i.e alcoholic.

Um - where did they get grape juice for the Last Supper? The grape harvest was about 6 months earlier (Sept) and without modern preservation methods, it would have been alcoholic in less than 2 months.

BTW - "New" wine referred to that which had not aged and settled out all the dregs and floaters. Since there was still some outgassing going on, it could burst undersized or brittle containers. It was just as intoxicating as old wine.

Acts 2.12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.
15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.

Clearly it was known that you could get intoxicated from "new wine."

 

[com7fy8]

Yes, different people can use Jesus and the Bible to prove different ideas about some same issue. I find it interesting how Jesus changed water into wine, and then the master of the feast said that was the good wine which usually people would drink, first, then drink inferior wine after they had drunk the "good" wine. Why would they drink inferior wine after the "good" wine? I can see that the good stuff made them unable to tell the difference

But I have been tipsy after experiencing how Jesus love effects me; and feeling "happy" is so inferior. Why go there?

Another thing > I understand that if enough is not enough, then nothing can be enough. If you can't stop at a sip and enjoy it, and stop because you are mainly about enjoying God and loving people, then possibly it has you under its power. Paul says, "I will not be brought under the power of any," in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

This can go for food, too, and watching football, and other things people like. We can be under the power of various things, in order to get feelings and excitement because God's love is not deeply satisfying us. There are many things which do not love us!!

So, we need to stop any wrong thing, because of how we are getting strong in God's love satisfying us and keeping us also from other escape things. Other dangerous things include food abuse and beauty discrimination which can be very degrading in us and ruin our health and ability to relate in real love.

And we need to become strong in love, so we have self control against arguing and complaining > Philippians 2:13-16. Our arguing and complaining can help to break us down so we are hurt and dissatisfied so then we can be dragged into using substances and immoral pleasures to try to make ourselves feel better > instead of seeking our Father for the correction we need.

 

[friend of]

I've never been to a church that gave it's congregation wine to drink, but I heard that's a thing (they must go around with the collection plate at least a dozen times per sermon)

|Curious to hear what you would all think about this link|

The Church that Drinks Together

(not using this link to justify drinking. just using it to point out the mindset of other Christians around the world. I do agree that drinking should be done away with and it's something I intend to work on with my newly granted self-control)