Lies about the Sabbath.

[Elder 111]

Show me 1 text saying that Jesus kept the sabbath. Not saying that He did not. Why do you call scriptures of Jesus being accused of breaking the sabbath as Jesus keeping the sabbath?

If you are not saying that Jesus did not keep the Sabbath what are you saying? If Jesus did not keep the Sabbath then He would be a sinner wouldn't He?.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111 So God gave a pathetic law?We have a pathetic God? Lev. 19: 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
God who seems to be pathetic have given the ten Commandments and also said that we should love our neightbour. So how can they be separated now?

What's all this pathetic God talk Elder???? Stop misrepresenting what people are saying.
Are you saying there are 11 commandments??? What are you saying anywayz???

Can't comprehend? It is simple, the contention that Jesus gave a new commandment or replaced the Ten with two is a lie. The same lave your neightbour and love God with all your heat always existed. Look carefully and you will see that Jesus was asked what is the greatest commandments, it was already known. The passage I have quoted and Deut. 11:13 record them.
My point there is that the Ten commandments could not have been replaced by them, the coexisted.

 

[Elder 111]

You're trying to make a point that God does not need sleep or rest.
Tell us why does SDA theology claim that God created and kept the Sabbath weekly in creation.

The bible show that God 'ceased' because all His works was finished. The fact that all His work was finished, does imply that His rest is an eternal place on His throne in the Heavens.




The KJV translates Strongs H7673 in the following manner: cease (47x), rest (11x), away (3x), fail (2x), celebrate (1x), misc (7x).

Your teology is flawed. We are not asked to rest with Jesus in heaven eternally. We are asked to cease from work on the seventh day. Your bible says that.

 

[from scratch]

If you are not saying that Jesus did not keep the Sabbath what are you saying? If Jesus did not keep the Sabbath then He would be a sinner wouldn't He?.

Jesus was obligated to keep the 7th day Sabbath as a Jew. Gentiles aren't. Jesus fulfilled the law. That is Jesus met all the requirements of the law. No one else can say or do that.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Elder 111 So God gave a pathetic law?We have a pathetic God? Lev. 19: 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
God who seems to be pathetic have given the ten Commandments and also said that we should love our neightbour. So how can they be separated now?
Can't comprehend? It is simple, the contention that Jesus gave a new commandment or replaced the Ten with two is a lie. The same lave your neightbour and love God with all your heat always existed. Look carefully and you will see that Jesus was asked what is the greatest commandments, it was already known. The passage I have quoted and Deut. 11:13 record them.
My point there is that the Ten commandments could not have been replaced by them, the coexisted.

Then the Gospels are a lie. Either Jesus or the authors lied. This invalidates the New Testament. You must be truly happy about this.

 

[LarryP2]

If you are not saying that Jesus did not keep the Sabbath what are you saying?

What we are repeating is Christianity's long-standing doctrine on Sabbath Keeping: It is an utterly dead, worthless and obsolete custom of Judaism that was given solely to the Jews and never has had, nor never will have ANYTHING do with Gentiles, let alone Christianity. In fact, Christianity has rightly and adamantly condemned the practice as being unbiblical and totally incompatible with Grace and the New Covenant. Christianity has determined from its birth that Sabbath Keepers are NOT Christians who should be vigorously expelled and excommunicated to prevent their vile heresy from infecting gullible Christians. "Excommunicating" = "Quarantining." That has been Christianity's position for 2,000 years.

Have I made myself clear?

If Jesus did not keep the Sabbath then He would be a sinner wouldn't He?.

Jesus broke the Sabbath over and over again! He did so with impunity, because it was and is NOT a moral law; and since it was HIS Sabbath that was designed ONLY as a ceremony strictly limited to pointing to HIM, it was right and proper for him to condemn it as now the worthless, useless and obsolete ordinance that it had become, as a result of his first suck of oxygen at birth. He fulfilled the stupid and silly ceremony simply by existing. He was operating under a higher and greater Law: ushering in the New Covenant. Keeping the Sabbath would have actually been a SIN, versus his willful breaking of it in order to heal people. There is no question that telling the cripple: "Gather up your mattress and walk" was a violation of the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was commanded to the Israelites to distinguish them from all other nations. The Greeks found that irrational habit of Judaism despicable and stupid. It is not reported how the Greeks reacted to Jesus's willful Sabbath Breaking, but I can assume their robust appetite for Baklava and Spanakopita continued, and no Greek woke in the night with a sudden hankering for bagels and Lox as a result of Jesus's Sabbath breaking. Conversely, after Jesus ordered the cripple to pick up his mattress and walk, he never suddenly began thinking of himself as a Greek, a Chinese person, or a Roman Gladiator, so the Sabbath continued in its effectiveness in serving its intended purpose.

His open and brazen breaking of the Sabbath has no more to do with "sinning" than if he had broken any other archaic Old Testament custom. For Jesus, "breaking the Sabbath" was of no more importance than digging a latrine and using it within city limits, planting radishes and carrots together, wearing a wool sweater over a cotton t-shirt, or advising someone that it was okay to have sex with their menstruating wife.

THAT'S how "important" his willful and open "violation" of the Sabbath was. What, you think I am supposed to be intimidated or impressed that you have decided, in opposition to 2,000 years of Christian history, that the Sabbath is a "moral" Law? Because a 13-year old Methodist girl had a rock thrown at her forehead , and woke out of a coma thinking that she was a Jew?

Neither Christianity or I have ever thought of the Sabbath as a Moral Law. Therefore, breaking it is not a sin, especially for Christians.

Have I made myself clear?

 

[VictorC]

Your teology is flawed. We are not asked to rest with Jesus in heaven eternally. We are asked to cease from work on the seventh day. Your bible says that.

No, the Bible doesn't say that regarding either the Gentile nations nor the adopted redeemed children of God. This is a fallacy you've conjured all on your own.
We have entered into God's rest the Sabbath didn't provide during its tenure. You can't embrace the shadow and the reality that are mutually exclusive.

 

[VictorC]

If you are not saying that Jesus did not keep the Sabbath what are you saying? If Jesus did not keep the Sabbath then He would be a sinner wouldn't He?.

This illustrates the Adventist concept of Jesus. They regard Him as a natural child of Israel, without preexisting Divinity, who "sinned" via a transgression of an ordinance clearly outside its limited jurisdiction.

Tell me, Who does Scripture refer to as existing before a body was prepared for Him?

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”​

 

[Cribstyl]

If you are not saying that Jesus did not keep the Sabbath what are you saying? If Jesus did not keep the Sabbath then He would be a sinner wouldn't He?.

Not saying He did not keep it as a youth. It seems reasonable that those commanded had to keep the sabbath not the creator.
Waiting for you to show 1 text, just 1. The fact that Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath made Him High Preist and therefore not subjected to the Sabbath. All we read about is Christ working or allowing His apostles to work on the sabbath.

 

[LarryP2]

Not saying He did not keep it as a youth. It seems reasonable that those commanded had to keep the Sabbath not the creator.
Waiting for you to show 1 text, just 1. The fact that Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath made Him High Priest and therefore not subjected to the Sabbath. All we read about is Christ working or allowing His apostles to work on the Sabbath.

Curiously, the Pharisees openly and repeatedly accused Jesus of Sabbath Breaking. Yet he NEVER rebutted that charge.

He just went on breaking it, like he owned it or something.

You have to have a head-injured, third grade-educated ex-Methodist translating the Bible for you in order to avoid understanding that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath over and over and over again.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Curiously, the Pharisees openly and repeatedly accused Jesus of Sabbath Breaking. Yet he NEVER rebutted that charge.

He just went on breaking it, like he owned it or something.

You have to have a head-injured, third grade-educated ex-Methodist translating the Bible for you in order to avoid understanding that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath over and over and over again.

In actuality it matters not if Jesus kept or broke the Sabbath or not what truly matters is if Jesus ever commanded anyone following him to keep the Sabbath AND if those who were to teach Gentile converts to Christianity that keeping the Sabbath is a must. Jesus properly keeping the Sabbath only proves that he indeed was a Jew and bound to Mosaic Law it means NOTHING to what binds Gentile followers who by the Jews corporate rejection of Jesus have essentially banned Christianity from their temple system making it impossible for Christians to partake properly of the Mosaic Law and thus unable to keep the Sabbath. It matters less that the first believers were Jews because at times even they were thrown out and punished for their Christian beliefs by those who were in charge of the temples. In other words there really is no precedent to mix Mosaic Law and Christianity without bending AND breaking the Mosaic Law and possibly rejecting what Christianity is about in the first place. We don't see Jesus saying believe in me and keep the Sabbath and you will be saved do we? There is no condition in salvation stated by him OR any Apostle in the New Testament that implies on any level that one MUST do ANYTHING other than accept by Faith..... Jesus. When you add the Sabbath into the mix you will have Paul on your case saying you are essentially trying to circumcise gentiles that in turn gets James and Peter on your case at the Council of Jerusalem.
One has to chase ghosts and claim they are real plus make up lies to prop up claims the Sabbath is for Gentiles to keep. Arguments from silence are worthless when when we have scripture like this:

Acts 16:30-32

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
The Jailer Converted

31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of [a]the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.


I see NO mention of doing ANYTHING else here but BELIEVING... NO KEEPINGs here at all going on.

 

[Cribstyl]

Originally Posted by Elder 111 So God gave a pathetic law?We have a pathetic God? Lev. 19: 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
God who seems to be pathetic have given the ten Commandments and also said that we should love our neightbour. So how can they be separated now?
Can't comprehend? It is simple, the contention that Jesus gave a new commandment or replaced the Ten with two is a lie. The same lave your neightbour and love God with all your heat always existed. Look carefully and you will see that Jesus was asked what is the greatest commandments, it was already known. The passage I have quoted and Deut. 11:13 record them.
My point there is that the Ten commandments could not have been replaced by them, theY coexisted.

First of all, SDA dont want to recognized that; what God said is the covenant is written in Deut 5. What is said before and after quoting the 10 commandments is posted below...
Deu 5:2
The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3
The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS are(Deut 5:6-21)
Deu 5:22
¶ These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

As SDA would say, "He wrote them with his finger".
He added no more commandments to these 10 commandments which are also known as the covenant, the tables of the testimonies and other names.

There are over 600 commandments in the law.

 

[Cribstyl]

Your tHeology is flawed. We are not asked to rest with Jesus in heaven eternally. We are asked to cease from work on the seventh day. Your bible says that.

Say what???
Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


Now show us where the bible says that Christians are to cease from work on the seventh day??? (I dont expect a direct response)

 

[Sophrosyne]

Say what???
Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


Now show us where the bible says that Christians are to cease from work on the seventh day??? (I dont expect a direct response)

This shows you are now a veteran here when you realize asking for honest answers when dealing with most SDAs is harder than trying to pull teeth on a hippo. I've never been given proof gentiles were told to keep the Sabbath. The best they can offer is that Gentiles gathered near the temple on the Sabbath so they must have been there to keep the Sabbath to which I reply if a dog showed up there it too must also be keeping the Sabbath by the same logic.

 

[Elder 111]

Jesus was obligated to keep the 7th day Sabbath as a Jew. Gentiles aren't. Jesus fulfilled the law. That is Jesus met all the requirements of the law. No one else can say or do that.

What seventh day Sabbath? According to others the seventh day and the Sabbath are not the same. You need to check with VictorC.
I am glad to see that you have stated that fulfill means to carry out and not abolished.
Is Jesus not our example? So should we not do as He did?

 

[Elder 111]

Then the Gospels are a lie. Either Jesus or the authors lied. This invalidates the New Testament. You must be truly happy about this.

Have no idea what you are referring to.

 

[Elder 111]

The contention is that Jesus broke the Sabbath. Is it true that if a man saves a life on the Sabbath it is work? To heal is to brake the Sabbath? Is that what the bible says?
When the Sabbath comes is it like "freeze" where you are?
Were the hundreds of persons that died because they kept the Sabbath deserving of death?
Because 3 billion persons kept Sunday and rejected God's Sabbath for 2000 years mean that which God ordained from creation becomes null and void?
Who should we follow, the "church fathers" or Christ who said call no man father?
I glory in Christ and in His Holy Blessed and Hallowed Sabbath. I glory in His blessed command to keep it holy. Precious is the time spent in worship and ceasing from daily toil.All He requires of me is to accept His gift of grace and salvation and to walk in obedience to His law.
O blessed saviour kind and true,
Every Sabbath I will give to you.
Is that clear.

 

[LarryP2]

This shows you are now a veteran here when you realize asking for honest answers when dealing with most SDAs is harder than trying to pull teeth on a hippo.

They are taught to be very very slippery and never give a straight answer. A straight answer always begins the swift and certain annihilation of one of their doctrines.

I've never been given proof gentiles were told to keep the Sabbath

I've even made it easier on them: Leaving aside whether any Gentiles were told to keep the Sabbath (they were prohibited from keeping it), I had merely asked for proof from the bible that one ever did.

No response.

The best they can offer is that Gentiles gathered near the temple on the Sabbath

That was their busiest day of the week for business.

so they must have been there to keep the Sabbath to which I reply if a dog showed up there it too must also be keeping the Sabbath by the same logic.

Dogs would do far less business on the Sabbath than a Gentile would have.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Dogs would do far less business on the Sabbath than a Gentile would have.

Dogs would keep the Sabbath BETTER than they have

 

[VictorC]

What seventh day Sabbath? According to others the seventh day and the Sabbath are not the same. You need to check with VictorC.
I am glad to see that you have stated that fulfill means to carry out and not abolished.
Is Jesus not our example? So should we not do as He did?

VictorC reminds Elder111 of the many posts he has ignored. I opened the Bible for you to see that the seventh day God rested preceded the Sabbath 'made for man' thousands of years later. Elder111's contention is with Scripture, and not an individual member of the forum.

Jesus is more than an example; He is our Redeemer, our propitiation, and our Savior - and not an excuse to argue for reversion to the old covenant.