Lies about the Sabbath.

[from scratch]

Maybe some who are not Adventist may help.
THE SIN OF NOT KEEPING THE SABBATH DAY

Well they make the same claims you do and ignore the same things. They fully ignore John 15:10 and refuse to consider the context of Jesus - ie Jesus is obligated to the law by virtue of being a Jew. Jesus fulfilled the law while no one else can as noted by Ps 14 and 53 besides the New Testament passages. They ignore passages such as Heb 7:12 which says the law changed negating the argument about heaven and earth passing away made possible by our Dr Luke's quote of Jesus in LK 24:44. Need I go on?

 

[LarryP2]

You have to be cousins of, or the person that continues to ask people this when they are challenged with obvious hypocrisy.

I will occasionally re-post this discussion, then the spectators who are watching this thread evolve can notice how many times Lollerskates will dishonestly dodge the obvious question. Given that you have accused the Christian Council at Laodicea of "obvious hypocrisy," My question is: "Are you now willing to publicly renounce the clear orthodox christian position on the Sabbath?"

No mealy-mouthing or dodging or trying to escape the truth, please. That would be a violation of the Ten Commandments that you claim to be supportive of.

 

[VictorC]

The sad fact is they never have had, or ever will have any intention of following the Ten Commandment's prohibition against lying and stealing. And they compound it by dodging questions about their founding prophet's sickening record of truly colossal theft and dishonesty.

Nor have they any intent to keep the Sabbath HOLY according to the Law that ordained it.
This would be the place to insert Ellen White's claim "it means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" from {6T 356.4}.
Adventist's aren't saved according to their Pen of Liability, and neither is she.

Posting is a little clumsy this morning for me, so don't ask too much of me. I'm on a new (used) $70 laptop running Suse, and I don't have my notes handy.

 

[LarryP2]

Nor have they any intent to keep the Sabbath HOLY according to the Law that ordained it.
This would be the place to insert Ellen White's claim "it means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" from {6T 356.4}.
Adventist's aren't saved according to their Pen of Liability, and neither is she.

Posting is a little clumsy this morning for me, so don't ask too much of me. I'm on a new (used) $70 laptop running Suse, and I don't have my notes handy.

You had a long-string cite of Ellen White quotes that demonstrate that she without a doubt taught that Sabbath Keeping is necessary for Salvation. Would it be too much to ask if you would re-post them here? There have been several previous quotes that assert that Sabbath Keeping has no part of Seventh Day Adventism's soteriology.

 

[VictorC]

You had a long-string cite of Ellen White quotes that demonstrate that she without a doubt taught that Sabbath Keeping is necessary for Salvation. Would it be too much to ask if you would re-post them here? There have been several previous quotes that assert that Sabbath Keeping has no part of Seventh Day Adventism's soteriology.

Sure. That gives me a chance to set up the display font and use Leafpad, which is Suse's equivalent to Window's Notepad...

Testimonies for the Church
Volume Two, page 693, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: No Probation After Christ Comes

As we have followed down the chain of prophecy, revealed truth for our time has been clearly seen and explained. We are accountable for the privileges that we enjoy and for the light that shines upon our pathway. Those who lived in past generations were accountable for the light which was permitted to shine upon them. Their minds were exercised in regard to different points of Scripture which tested them. But they did not understand the truths which we do. They were not responsible for the light which they did not have. They had the Bible, as we have; but the time for the unfolding of special truth in relation to the closing scenes of this earth's history is during the last generations that shall live upon the earth. Special truths have been adapted to the conditions of the generations as they have existed. The present truth, which is a test to the people of this generation, was not a test to the people of generations far back. If the light which now shines upon us in regard to the Sabbath of the fourth commandment had been given to the generations in the past, God would have held them accountable for that light. When the temple of God was opened in heaven, John saw in holy vision a class of people whose attention was arrested and who were looking with reverential awe at the ark, which contained the law of God. The special test upon the fourth commandment did not come until after the temple of God was opened in heaven. Those who died before the light was given upon the law of God and the claims of the fourth commandment were not guilty of the sin of violating the seventh-day Sabbath. The wisdom and mercy of God in dispensing light and knowledge at the proper time, as the people need it, is unsearchable. Previous to His coming to judge the world in righteousness, He sends forth a warning to arouse the people and call their attention to their neglect of the fourth commandment, that they may be enlightened, and may repent of their transgression of His law, and prove their allegiance to the great Lawgiver. He has made provision that all may be holy and happy if they choose. Sufficient light has been given to this generation, that we may learn what our duties and privileges are, and enjoy the precious and solemn truths in their simplicity and power.​

To show Ellen's dependence on 1844, I will include this quote from Early Writings, Pg 42-43:

Sabbath, March 24, 1849, we had a sweet and very interesting meeting with the brethren at Topsham, Maine. The Holy Ghost was poured out upon us, and I was taken off in the Spirit to the city of the living God. Then I was shown that the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ relating to the shut door could not be separated, and that the time for the commandments of God to shine out with all their importance, and for God’s people to be tried on the Sabbath truth, was when the door was opened in the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary, where the ark is, in which are contained the ten commandments. This door was not opened until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the holy place of the sanctuary in 1844. Then Jesus rose up and shut the door of the holy place, and opened the door into the most holy, and passed within the second veil, where He now stands by the ark, and where the faith of Israel now reaches.

I saw that Jesus had shut the door of the holy place, and no man can open it; and that He had opened the door into the most holy, and no man can shut it (Revelation 3:7, 8); [see page 86. See also appendix.] and that since Jesus has opened the door into the most holy place, which contains the ark, the commandments have been shining out to God’s people, and they are being tested on the Sabbath question.

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God’s people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now.​

Ellen White's soteriology revolves around the Sabbath she failed to keep Holy according the Law that ordained it. This is evident in these quotes provided below that show the Adventist formula for 'salvation' to be compliance with the old covenant from Mount Sinai you don't acknowledge God's redemption from:

No one is saved who is a transgressor of the law of God, which is the foundation of his government in heaven and in earth. {RH June 17, 1890, par. 8}

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." 1 Samuel 2:30. {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

“God requires of all His subjects obedience, entire obedience to all His commandments. He demands now as ever perfect righteousness as the only title to heaven. Christ is our hope and our refuge. His righteousness is imputed only to the obedient!” (Review & Herald, Sept. 21, 1886)

"Christ does not lessen the claims of the law. In unmistakable language He presents obedience to it as the condition of eternal life—the same condition that was required of Adam before his Fall. The Lord expects no less of the soul now than He expected of man in Paradise, perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. The requirement under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement made in Eden—harmony with God’s law, which is holy, just, and good." (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 391)​

How much clearer does it need to be that the SDA church adopts a formula of 'salvation' by compliance to the old covenant? This is not a Christian organization that recognizes God's redemption from the covenant from Mount Sinai, and having one foot in the tenets of Judaism while giving lipservice to our Redeemer is their form of promoting adultery.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.​

 

[LarryP2]

Sure. That gives me a chance to set up the display font and use Leafpad, which is Suse's equivalent to Window's Notepad...

Testimonies for the Church
Volume Two, page 693, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: No Probation After Christ Comes

As we have followed down the chain of prophecy, revealed truth for our time has been clearly seen and explained. We are accountable for the privileges that we enjoy and for the light that shines upon our pathway. Those who lived in past generations were accountable for the light which was permitted to shine upon them. Their minds were exercised in regard to different points of Scripture which tested them. But they did not understand the truths which we do. They were not responsible for the light which they did not have. They had the Bible, as we have; but the time for the unfolding of special truth in relation to the closing scenes of this earth's history is during the last generations that shall live upon the earth. Special truths have been adapted to the conditions of the generations as they have existed. The present truth, which is a test to the people of this generation, was not a test to the people of generations far back. If the light which now shines upon us in regard to the Sabbath of the fourth commandment had been given to the generations in the past, God would have held them accountable for that light. When the temple of God was opened in heaven, John saw in holy vision a class of people whose attention was arrested and who were looking with reverential awe at the ark, which contained the law of God. The special test upon the fourth commandment did not come until after the temple of God was opened in heaven. Those who died before the light was given upon the law of God and the claims of the fourth commandment were not guilty of the sin of violating the seventh-day Sabbath. The wisdom and mercy of God in dispensing light and knowledge at the proper time, as the people need it, is unsearchable. Previous to His coming to judge the world in righteousness, He sends forth a warning to arouse the people and call their attention to their neglect of the fourth commandment, that they may be enlightened, and may repent of their transgression of His law, and prove their allegiance to the great Lawgiver. He has made provision that all may be holy and happy if they choose. Sufficient light has been given to this generation, that we may learn what our duties and privileges are, and enjoy the precious and solemn truths in their simplicity and power.​

To show Ellen's dependence on 1844, I will include this quote from Early Writings, Pg 42-43:

Sabbath, March 24, 1849, we had a sweet and very interesting meeting with the brethren at Topsham, Maine. The Holy Ghost was poured out upon us, and I was taken off in the Spirit to the city of the living God. Then I was shown that the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ relating to the shut door could not be separated, and that the time for the commandments of God to shine out with all their importance, and for God’s people to be tried on the Sabbath truth, was when the door was opened in the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary, where the ark is, in which are contained the ten commandments. This door was not opened until the mediation of Jesus was finished in the holy place of the sanctuary in 1844. Then Jesus rose up and shut the door of the holy place, and opened the door into the most holy, and passed within the second veil, where He now stands by the ark, and where the faith of Israel now reaches.

I saw that Jesus had shut the door of the holy place, and no man can open it; and that He had opened the door into the most holy, and no man can shut it (Revelation 3:7, 8); [see page 86. See also appendix.] and that since Jesus has opened the door into the most holy place, which contains the ark, the commandments have been shining out to God’s people, and they are being tested on the Sabbath question.

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. I saw that Satan was tempting some of God’s people on this point. Because so many good Christians have fallen asleep in the triumphs of faith and have not kept the true Sabbath, they were doubting about its being a test for us now.​

Ellen White's soteriology revolves around the Sabbath she failed to keep Holy according the Law that ordained it. This is evident in these quotes provided below that show the Adventist formula for 'salvation' to be compliance with the old covenant from Mount Sinai you don't acknowledge God's redemption from:

No one is saved who is a transgressor of the law of God, which is the foundation of his government in heaven and in earth. {RH June 17, 1890, par. 8}

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." 1 Samuel 2:30. {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

“God requires of all His subjects obedience, entire obedience to all His commandments. He demands now as ever perfect righteousness as the only title to heaven. Christ is our hope and our refuge. His righteousness is imputed only to the obedient!” (Review & Herald, Sept. 21, 1886)

"Christ does not lessen the claims of the law. In unmistakable language He presents obedience to it as the condition of eternal life—the same condition that was required of Adam before his Fall. The Lord expects no less of the soul now than He expected of man in Paradise, perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. The requirement under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement made in Eden—harmony with God’s law, which is holy, just, and good." (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 391)​

How much clearer does it need to be that the SDA church adopts a formula of 'salvation' by compliance to the old covenant? This is not a Christian organization that recognizes God's redemption from the covenant from Mount Sinai, and having one foot in the tenets of Judaism while giving lipservice to our Redeemer is their form of promoting adultery.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.​

They certainly could not make themselves any clearer. My question is: given their repeated hostile anti-orthodox christian statements; their open rejection of Canon 29 of the ecumenical council of Laodicea that describes orthodox christianity's position on the Sabbath; and their open embrace of an anti-christian Salvation by Perfect Sabbath Keeping; why are they allowed to post on a christian forums website? Whatever else they may dodge and and lie about, they are CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS that they are adamantly opposed to orthodox Christianity.

 

[Lollerskates]

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[Lollerskates]

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[Lollerskates]

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[Lollerskates]

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[Lollerskates]

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[Cribstyl]

I am non denomination for a reason. I read that God has these commandments, and that He never changes, and that His son said He didn't come to change the law. So, color me naive for following Them.

Consider yourself colored naive. God's person does not change.
If God did not change how He deals with man, all men would die.
Saying that "God does not change" allows you deny that God's new covenant is a change from the old covenant.

Fact is, change was written into the law. God said that He would given a new covenant unlike the one given at Sinai. That covenant was the ten commandments.

An example of God making a change is; at creation, God required men to eat fruits and vegetables.
After the flood God required mean to eat meat.

The facts of the scriptures can be manipulated by commentary.

 

[Lollerskates]

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[LarryP2]

Gentile is the English translation for "Hellenistic," which is Greek.

False! The Mishnah Torah is LITTERED with references to Gentiles, all translated from the original Hebrew.

You have an unhealthy obsession with Ellen White, and attribe anyone who believes in the preservation of the 10 commandments, namely the Sabbath, with her entire doctrine. How disingenuous. I don't even know who she is.

I seriously doubt that it is true. "I don't even know who she is," is an extremely common lie told by SDAs. The number of non-SDA Sabbatarians in existence is minuscule, with the Seventh Day Baptists claiming less than 50,000 worldwide. The World Wide Church of God disintegrated after renouncing their cultish Sabbatarian doctrine, which was identical to SDAs. We know neither WWCOG or SDB EVER come on here to proselytise. You are clearly here to proselytise, and that is what Seventh Day Adventism is notorious for. You are on here because you clearly believe in Ellen White's Salvation by Perfect Sabbath Keeping plan. We also know that Seventh Day Adventists do not hesitate to lie, especially given EGW's history of almost unbelievable, jaw-dropping lies and thefts. Lastly, we know that Seventh Day Adventists never discuss the Investigative Judgment, their Remnant Church Doctrine, or Ellen White's prophetic bonafides, since ALL of those doctrines have been resoundingly rejected by their own theologians. So the Sabbath is their only remaining doctrine that is even barely plausible, and only then to the biblically and historically illiterate.

You must think we are idiots, given the number of Adventists that come and go on the Sabbath section.

If you want to follow men, and their traditions, then do it.

Is that a rejection of orthodox christianity's doctrine on the Sabbath propounded by the Council of Laodicea? That is emphatically NOT a "tradition of man," anymore than the Nicene Creed is simply a "tradition of man." Both Niceae and Laodicea were places where Christianity put in writing their doctrines, which included the doctrine that people like yourself should be immediately expelled from the Body of Christ, since your Judaizing heresy has no place in it.

God commanded the Sabbath to be kept holy; does He ever change His law, or do men? (At no point did Christ or God nullify the fourth commandment, but men do.)

You WERE, eventually going to address my statements about the Noahide Commandments eventually, weren't you? Or is this going to be another attempt to get a slippery Seventh Day Adventist to admit the truth? As you well know, Judaism continues to follow the Mosaic Law that was given specifically ONLY to them, so once again we have caught you lying. You know good and well the Fourth Commandment has never been nullified. Christianity has NEVER been subject to it, jettisoning Sabbath Keeping on the morning of the Resurrection, on the commands of Jesus and his Apostles.

When did God ever nullify the fourth commandment? If we can pick and choose what commandments to follow based on earthly changes and traditions, why can't I canonize lying as OK? It isn't the 9 commandments...

Are you saying the orthodox Christians who saw the wisdom of expelling heretics such as yourself from the Body of Christ are "lying?" Again, if they were indeed "lying," are you going to admit that you have completely rejected the orthodox christian position on the sabbath? And as a matter of fact, you HAVE "canonized lying," given your founding prophet's extensive lifetime history of lying and stealing many times every day for over 50 years.

You seem to have more of a grudge with Ellen White, and you project that very clearly.

"Grudge?" Nah, having 25 dear friends commit suicide trying to achieve Salvation by perfect Sabbath Keeping, propounded that incredibly evil woman, is the reason I write here. The damage that evil cult has caused is almost beyond belief.

What do you think? Maybe standing true as their friend and warning the world about an evil, anti-christian cult doctrine is kind of a living memorial. Not quite a mere "grudge," don't you think?

 

[from scratch]

It was LarryP.

Who are the cousins?

Doesn't LarryP2 make a just evaluation? If not what's wrong with it?

 

[from scratch]

Because it is one of 10 commandments.

The Ten Commandments aren't part of the New Covenant.

 

[Lollerskates]

.

 

[from scratch]

Consider yourself colored naive. God's person does not change. If God did not change how He deals with man, all men would die. Saying that "God does not change" allows you deny that God's new covenant is a change from the old covenant.

Fact is, change was written into the law.

The reality is they aren't arguing about God. They're arguing that there can be and is no new covenant.

 

[Lollerskates]

.

 

[from scratch]

Who changed it: man or God. When did Christ ever say any of the law was done away with?

I'll wait.

God.

Only in the nature of annihilation.