Lies about the Sabbath.

LarryP2 · May 8, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
Yup..... I don't think God ever intended the Sabbath to be kept outside of The main group of Israel either those walking in the Desert with Moses or once they were in the Land promised by to Abraham. I think the only "proper" sabbath is in the location of Israel all other Sabbaths out of that time zone are improper.

For the Sabbath to be kept on a worldwide basis, according to Adventism's own prophet it would require the biggest mass migration in world history. Approximately 200 million people across the Northern Hemisphere would have to be uprooted and moved closer to the equator:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7820200/

However, as some small consolation, this could also be the solution for Tongans, especially if Adventists declared the Earth is Flat. The above link demonstrates that the declaration that the earth is flat would resolve some of the Sabbath Keeping issues, although it still wouldn't solve the problem that makes it impossible for airline pilots to obey the 4th Commandment. Unless it does. One could imagine the solution for airline pilots to be something on the order of in-air refueling coupled with mandatory "counter-clockwise" (East) flight patterns. In other words, if international pilots only flew in the direction that would always allow them to be flying towards "the day before," theoretically they could completely ignore the Sabbath requirement. As a practical matter, that would only require someone flying from Washington DC to Los Angeles to go by way of the Atlantic Ocean, Europe, Asia, then across the Pacific Ocean to finally arrive in LA. Most passengers would be willing to expend an additional 36 hours of flying time or so, to avoid consigning the flight crew to hell, if the dire consequences of not doing so were carefully explained.

And even worse than that, if the clear wording of the 4th Commandment were enforced, it would immediately cause the complete collapse of Western Civilization as we know it. The 4th Commandment, in a little-noted clause, prohibits YOUR "manservant and maidservant" from doing any work on the Sabbath. If only the 10 million Adventists around the world honestly followed that strict clause, the world economy would immediately collapse into a world-wide irreversible death spiral:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7820818/

Fortunately, we can rest assured that no such honest adherence will ever occur.

Elder 111 · May 10, 2014

One of the lies about the Sabbath is that early Christians did not keep the Sabbath. Some facts to check.

Acts 13 demonstrate that the Apostles kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentle.
Acts 16 shows that there were in the open on the sabbath day gathered for worship. V. 12-14
Acts 17 states that it was Paul worshiping on the Sabbath (v. 2).
Acts 18 states that Paul used to worship every Sabbath (v. 4) with both Jews and Greek. Not only that but that he continue to do that for a year and a half. (v.11).
In Acts 15 the apostle did not mention the Sabbath as one of the things not to do, although they knew that Moses was read every Sabbath. (V.21)
Acts 20:7 demonstrates that Sabbath was being kept not Sunday. What we have forgotten or have not taken into consideration is that at this time the day was reckoned from evening to evening not midnight to midnight. So when is states that they continued to midnight on the first day it was actually Saturday night. This indeed would that they continued from Sabbath unto night and early Sunday morning Paul was on his way. So that instead of worshiping on a Sunday Paul was on the road walking.
Rev 1:10 is about the Sabbath not Sunday. Nowhere in the Bible is Sunday ever called the Lord's day but Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath, so we can see why John can call the Sabbath "the Lord day".
Historical writings, even some by the Catholic Church confirms that Sabbath was being kept by early Christians. As a matter of fact, all who have access and are willing to check will find that early Christians used to keep both Sabbath and Sunday before the Sunday law was passed.

LarryP2 · May 10, 2014

Elder 111 said:
One of the lies about the Sabbath is that early Christians did not keep the Sabbath. Some facts to check.

Acts 13 demonstrate that the Apostles kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentle.

Acts 16 shows that there were in the open on the sabbath day gathered for worship. V. 12-14

Acts 17 states that it was Paul worshiping on the Sabbath (v. 2).

Acts 18 states that Paul used to worship every Sabbath (v. 4) with both Jews and Greek. Not only that but that he continue to do that for a year and a half. (v.11).

In Acts 15 the apostle did not mention the Sabbath as one of the things not to do, although they knew that Moses was read every Sabbath. (V.21)

Acts 20:7 demonstrates that Sabbath was being kept not Sunday. What we have forgotten or have not taken into consideration is that at this time the day was reckoned from evening to evening not midnight to midnight. So when is states that they continued to midnight on the first day it was actually Saturday night. This indeed would that they continued from Sabbath unto night and early Sunday morning Paul was on his way. So that instead of worshiping on a Sunday Paul was on the road walking.

Rev 1:10 is about the Sabbath not Sunday. Nowhere in the Bible is Sunday ever called the Lord's day but Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath, so we can see why John can call the Sabbath "the Lord day".

Historical writings, even some by the Catholic Church confirms that Sabbath was being kept by early Christians. As a matter of fact, all who have access and are willing to check will find that early Christians used to keep both Sabbath and Sunday before the Sunday law was passed.

I have posted about 100 times in the last month that Eastern Orthodoxy's claim that Sunday worship and Easter Celebration took place in the first year after the Resurrection. NOBODY HAS CHALLENGED THAT CLAIM!!!! Ellen White, who was plagiarizing massively from Wylie's History of the Protestant Reformation, knew of this claim and deliberately withheld it from The Great Controversy!

What's your explanation for this?

SAAN · May 10, 2014

LarryP2 said:
I have posted about 100 times in the last month that Eastern Orthodoxy's claim that Sunday worship and Easter Celebration took place in the first year after the Resurrection. NOBODY HAS CHALLENGED THAT CLAIM!!!! Ellen White, who was plagiarizing massively from Wylie's History of the Protestant Reformation, knew of this claim and deliberately withheld it from The Great Controversy!

What's your explanation for this?

You need to go and read your bible and study this Eastern Orthodoxy's claim if you truly think there was a thing called EASTER 1 yr after the resurrection. If you truly believe that, you don't have a clue about the bible and there is no hope for you.

I have listed before proof Paul and the disciples were still keeping passover and all the other feats years after Jesus died. Easter is something the Catholic church came up with as it merged pagan traditions to create the day, everyone knows this, atheists know this, and even non christians know this.

LarryP2 · May 10, 2014

SAAN said:
You need to go and read your bible and study this Eastern Orthodoxy's claim if you truly think there was a thing called EASTER 1 yr after the resurrection. If you truly believe that, you don't have a clue about the bible and there is no hope for you.

I have listed before proof Paul and the disciples were still keeping passover and all the other feats years after Jesus died. Easter is something the Catholic church came up with as it merged pagan traditions to create the day, everyone knows this, atheists know this, and even non christians know this.

Utter false and ugly smear once again on Christianity! The only people that agree with you is those that know nothing about history. That's all. Ellen White took great pains to propagate the same lies that you are telling, and willfully deceive her entire church membership. If she thought that the Eastern Orthodoxy was not telling the truth, she would have addressed it in the Great Controversy! She had Wylie's book open right in front of her, while she was stealing the art from it! She had to have seen the history of the Battle between Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism over the Easter Controversy. She made a deliberate decision to withhold that from her church. That is an incredibly egregious fraud.

THAT is how modern Sabbath Keeping got its start!

SAAN · May 10, 2014

Screw EGW, go read your bible and Lev 23 and you will understand the NT and that they kept Passover instead of Easter.

LarryP2 · May 10, 2014

SAAN said:
Screw EGW, go read your bible and Lev 23 and you will understand the NT and that they kept Passover instead of Easter.

I am addressing the deceitful and dishonest representations you have made about Roman Catholicism being in existence in First and Second Century Christianity. I have spelled out in detail how those lies got started. There is no reason that you should continue making your dishonest representations about the history of that Church. Roman Catholicism and the Pope simply did not exist when you say it did.

Second, you have grossly misrepresented Galatians, Acts 15, Colossians 2:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22; and Romans 5:14. The history that I have put on here is completely consistent with those verses. Christianity simply followed the absolutely crystal clear meaning of the Epistles and immediately abandoned Sabbath Keeping by the end of the First Century. Even Seventh Day Adventism's premier Sabbath Scholar Samuele Bacchiochi said Christianity's complete rejection of the Sabbath was universal by 135 AD, at least 200 years before there was a Pope! THAT is more consistent with the Eastern Orthodox's claim of first year after the resurrection Sunday worship than is your dishonest theory about Roman Catholicism changing the Day!

Third, you know good and well that Martin Luther was presented squarely with the Sabbath issue, and rejected it as being inconsistent with Christianity. This was while he was in a pitched all-out war with Catholicism, and rejected MANY of Catholicism's central doctrines, and in fact totally removed several books out of the Catholic Bible. If Sabbath Keeping was necessary for Christians, Martin Luther would have been the FIRST one to embrace it, since he was in the process of starting a whole new church that was in a direct war with Catholicism. Christianity had NO history of Sabbath Keeping until the Seventh Day Baptists revived in in 1650, which was then borrowed by the Seventh Day Adventists in the 1800s.

Elder 111 · May 11, 2014

LarryP2 said:
I have posted about 100 times in the last month that Eastern Orthodoxy's claim that Sunday worship and Easter Celebration took place in the first year after the Resurrection. NOBODY HAS CHALLENGED THAT CLAIM!!!! Ellen White, who was plagiarizing massively from Wylie's History of the Protestant Reformation, knew of this claim and deliberately withheld it from The Great Controversy!

What's your explanation for this?

There is nothing to explain. The bible clearly demonstrates that the Sabbath was kept up to the death of John at least. Are you asking me to deny the facts of the bible? What needs to be explained is why are you not accepting the bible?
The facts is that there are historical reports that the Sabbath was kept for hundreds of years after the resurrection. Why don't you speak to those reports too.
Why not speak to the fact that Sunday worship was associated with Sun and Baal worship?

LarryP2 · May 11, 2014

Elder 111 said:
There is nothing to explain. The bible clearly demonstrates that the Sabbath was kept up to the death of John at least. Are you asking me to deny the facts of the bible? What needs to be explained is why are you not accepting the bible?
The facts is that there are historical reports that the Sabbath was kept for hundreds of years after the resurrection. Why don't you speak to those reports too.
Why not speak to the fact that Sunday worship was associated with Sun and Baal worship?

What does the Bible say about the 325 AD Council of Niceae? Also, what does the Bible say about Greek and Roman history in the first century?

Elder 111 · May 11, 2014

LarryP2 said:
What does the Bible say about the 325 AD Council of Niceae? Also, what does the Bible say about Greek and Roman history in the first century?

Are you telling me that the 325 AD council of Niceae is of greater authority that God word? That I should look at what was done by others in the first century to base my faith upon rather than the bible?
Should our salvation be based on that which negates the bible? Should we accept the claims of others above the authority of the word of God?

from scratch · May 11, 2014

SAAN said:
You need to go and read your bible and study this Eastern Orthodoxy's claim if you truly think there was a thing called EASTER 1 yr after the resurrection. If you truly believe that, you don't have a clue about the bible and there is no hope for you.

I have listed before proof Paul and the disciples were still keeping passover and all the other feats years after Jesus died. Easter is something the Catholic church came up with as it merged pagan traditions to create the day, everyone knows this, atheists know this, and even non christians know this.

No sir you haven't. Paul went at Passover to evangelize the Jews. Yes I fully understand the KJV says keep in regard to Passover. One must understand Paul's attitude and purpose thus mission in regard to the Jews.

from scratch · May 11, 2014

SAAN said:
Screw EGW, go read your bible and Lev 23 and you will understand the NT and that they kept Passover instead of Easter.

Yes the Jews did. And so did Jewish Christians for a short time. The Church in general didn't. Like you said read your Bible.

Cribstyl · May 12, 2014

Elder 111 said:
I just do know how you all get so off target, illogical and unscriptural.
Rom. 5:
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Grace is here because of law and sin. No law no need of grace.

You're the one who is far off the target.
Your chosen texts is saying.......(20)The law came in to identify people's offense against God. Where sins are many, God's grace works even more. (21)So as sins leads people to death, the grace of God through forgiveness of sin will lead to righteousness that reigns unto eternal life.

The fact is: Grace is here because of sin not because of law.
Law only identifies and keeps account of sin.........
'No sin', would means 'no need of grace'.
No sin because we're keeping the law is not possible.

The law is powerless to save.

Cribstyl · May 12, 2014

Elder 111 said:
So it is better to say grace, grace, grace (f)or to say obey the ten is idolatry?
Who gave the ten again? Was that Baal or some other God?

Never said that........but those who live by the law will be accountable to the whole law.

Gal 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Clue: None of the 10 commandments promises life or heaven, they only administers punishment and death.
Claiming that the ten were written by His finger tends to undermind justification by His blood.

SAAN · May 12, 2014

from scratch said:
Yes the Jews did. And so did Jewish Christians for a short time. The Church in general didn't. Like you said read your Bible.

That short time you are referring to is 200-300+ yrs until Rome in 300AD's said Sunday is the new day of rest and Rome threatened people with violence that tried to rest on Saturday. I have listed before they were still keeping all the feast many years after Christs death. The gentiles were grafted INTO Israel becuase they used to be pagans, so they were doing what Israel did because the New Covenant was for Israel. The Jews rejected it, so the gentiles were used to spread the Gospel, but Gods chosen people is Israel and always will be, so when you are saved, you are grafted in as spiritual Israel. There is no such thing as THE CHURCH vs ISRAEL, since we have to worship the same God and have the SAME path of salvation and need the SAME savior in Jesus Christ.

from scratch · May 12, 2014

Cribstyl said:
You're the one who is far off the target.
Your chosen texts is saying.......(20)The law came in to identify people's offense against God. Where sins are many, God's grace works even more. (21)So as sins leads people to death, the grace of God through forgiveness of sin will lead to righteousness that reigns unto eternal life.

The fact is: Grace is here because of sin not because of law.
Law only identifies and keeps account of sin.........
'No sin', would means 'no need of grace'.
We're beyond the "No sin" because we keep the law.

The law is powerless to save.

QFT and deserves a chorus of

from scratch · May 12, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Never said that........but those who live by the law will be accountable to the whole law.

Gal 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Clue: None of the 10 commandments promises life or heaven, they only administers punishment and death.
Claiming that the ten were written by His finger tends to undermind justification by His blood.

You're on a roll.

from scratch · May 12, 2014

SAAN said:
That short time you are referring to is 200-300+ yrs until Rome in 300AD's said Sunday is the new day of rest and Rome threatened people with violence that tried to rest on Saturday. I have listed before they were still keeping all the feast many years after Christs death. The gentiles were grafted INTO Israel becuase they used to be pagans, so they were doing what Israel did because the New Covenant was for Israel. The Jews rejected it, so the gentiles were used to spread the Gospel, but Gods chosen people is Israel and always will be, so when you are saved, you are grafted in as spiritual Israel. There is no such thing as THE CHURCH vs ISRAEL, since we have to worship the same God and have the SAME path of salvation and need the SAME savior in Jesus Christ.

No, no. That short time was less than 50 years as evidenced by the New Testament. I understand you don't accept that and I can do nothing about rejection of the Bible. The people observing the Sabbath were Jews and some Jewish Christians. It wasn't the whole Church as you imply. The last Jewish Church leader was deceased by 135. After that the Church was primarily Gentiles or Jews that abandoned the law and Jewish heritage. Read the New Testament.

Oh and Gentile Christians weren't adopted into Israel. There's no passage in the New Testament so indicating. Yes I'll be most happy to get into it with you over that fact, yet again.

from scratch · May 12, 2014

Elder 111 said:
There is nothing to explain. The bible clearly demonstrates that the Sabbath was kept up to the death of John at least. Are you asking me to deny the facts of the bible? What needs to be explained is why are you not accepting the bible?
The facts is that there are historical reports that the Sabbath was kept for hundreds of years after the resurrection. Why don't you speak to those reports too.
Why not speak to the fact that Sunday worship was associated with Sun and Baal worship?

Where do you get support for such a statement?

Frogster · May 12, 2014

from scratch said:
No sir you haven't. Paul went at Passover to evangelize the Jews. Yes I fully understand the KJV says keep in regard to Passover. One must understand Paul's attitude and purpose thus mission in regard to the Jews.

exactly!

Lies about the Sabbath.

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Galatians is the best!

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