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Liberals, why do you believe people are entitled to the work of others?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by ChristJudgeOfAll, Aug 5, 2015.

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  1. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    I stopped reading your post at this point. Unless you have some suggestions on how to administer a functional government without tax income, I'm not going to bother reading the rest of that post.
     
  2. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    and you assumed he wants government why?
     
  3. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    No it isn't. More expensive isn't necessarily better. Kids at the private Christian school back in my hometown fell way behind in math and science. It's gotten to the point that the federal government has had to intervene in higher education.

    Also, how do you reconcile your belief that private schools are better than public schools with the following articles?
     
  4. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    I assumed he wanted to live in a functioning nation, society, or community. Perhaps I was wrong in my assumption.
     
  5. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    I, too, wonder why a CEO earns 450 times more than the average employee, even though those employees work as many hours (or more) and don't have expense accounts, stock options, etc.

    I agree that in a society where all of the income gains in the last 30 years have gone to the 1%, we need to do something to prevent the "successful" from skimming all the profits from corporations and leaving everyone else with the crumbs.

    I'm so glad you brought this up.

    While we're at it, why do corporations lay off employees and cut expenses to the bone to enrich shareholders who have a little bit of money and no skin in the game?

    Disclaimer: My husband is retired and I am still working, although I could retire. We enjoy making profits from investments as much as anyone else, but I try to avoid investing in companies that use Romney-esque tactics to enrich shareholders at the employees' expense.
     
  6. Avid

    Avid A Pilgrim and a Sojourner...

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    Socialism is nothing like what the First Century Church did. They had a group tightly knit together by love, and operated on a charity basis.

    The very scriptures that are used to show that say otherwise. That was voluntary, but try to tell a communist dictator you do not intend to voluntarily do as has been dictated, and you might find yourself in a gulag or "Re-education Camp" in short order.

    When the Apostle Peter was talking to Ananias (Acts 5,) he told him the property belonged to him till he sold it, and the money he got was his, and he had power to do with it as he wanted, but that, what was wrong was, he chose to LIE. You can read that for yourself. It is incorrect to think that God intends us to form a socialist system. In the US, we have a Constitution, and it is INTENDED to be our basis for law. Sadly, there is much done that is contrary to that constitution, and we are not going to improve much as we remain on this track!
     
  7. Crowns&Laurels

    Crowns&Laurels Well-Known Member

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    A lot, actually. Most wealth is actually through legacy, and it's insulting for the idea that all the wealthy people 'earned' their success. It's insulting to the people who struggle everyday despite working twice as hard.

    Also, being rich is not moral. 'Well off' is perhaps okay, but everybody loves to ignore the fact that Christ said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter the Kingdom.

    And so they are all reaping what they sowed, essentially out of ignorance. They have basically ignored reality in favor of a faux morality to justify themselves.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  8. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    It's about working smarter not harder. Not everyone can run a fortune 500 company, while billions of people can mop the floor.
    How does shareholders have no skin in the game? They own the company.

    You just look at the rewards and not the effort put in to get it. You take risks to become risk and start a company. Millions of people fail at businesses everyday.
     
  9. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    Even if it is inherited, someone earned that money, and the fact they earned it, that money can be left to whoever they wish it to be.

    Also who cares how hard someone works? It's about working smart, not working hard. Someone can mop my floor for 20 hours and I'd still pay the guy who can fix my iPhone in 30 minutes more. Why? Because I don't care how hard someone scrubs my floor, I would care a lot more if my phone broke.

    Supply and demand, it's simple.
     
  10. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    Let's see how you fare if all janitors in the world quit.

    Hope you don't need to stop anywhere to use the bathroom on a road trip!
     
  11. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    Too bad janitors are as common as the air we breathe, so your comment might as well be "let's see how you fare if the universe explodes" pointless comment really.
     
  12. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    Yet people will refuse the job of janitor because it's too gross or "under" them, and the job is kind of integral for society.

    Being a janitor is part of my job description (I have to take care of the entire lobby). This isn't just mopping the floor and dusting shelves. I have had to clean up liquid crap off the floor of the bathroom far more times than I have ever wanted to in my entire life. Try telling me I don't deserve a living wage for putting up with biohazards on a daily basis (if it's not crap, it's pee, or blood, or spit).
     
  13. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    I'm just being brutally honest, if being a janitor is so important, wages would go up. That is a fact. If your job was so hard and no one wanted to do it, they wouldn't be able to find a employee, they would increase wages to try to get someone. But the moment you quit, they can get someone right away probably.

    The same isn't true for someone who is a doctor, lawyer, or a engineer. It just isn't. If a doctor quits, they can't just hire another for a low price. Why? Because it takes an insane amount of intelligence and hard work to become a doctor. And no one is going to go through medical school so they can earn the same wage as someone who didn't finish high school.

    If what you are saying is true, that there isn't an oversupply of people who wants to be janitors or are willing to, then just quit, and I'm sure whoever you work for can't find a replacement without increasing the wage, and guess what wages will go up.

    But o wait, the moment you quit, I bet the company can find someone immediately. Sorry, just the truth I believe.

    The thing that ultimately determines price in the world is supply and demand, not how integral something is. If that were true, water would be the most expensive thing in the world, and it's not. Maybe if the supply of water drastically went down, it's price would go up. Heck if there was only 1 gallon of water left in the world, it'd be worth more than the Planet itself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  14. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    No, the reasons that wages aren't going up is because people with the money do not actually value the job.

    They view employees as disposable things, which is what creates the "revolving door" effect in many jobs like fast food. Use them up and spit them out, take the next one willing to walk through the door.

    You don't think janitors deserve a living wage? Then I suggest you try working as a janitor and see if it's worth your time to clean up human excrement for $7.50 an hour.
     
  15. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    So how is that different from over supply? You basically just said they can get another employee easily. So, too much supply, too many people willing to that job. Too many people can do it, because the job is simple, if it was difficult, people couldn't do it.

    Lol, you basically said there are so many people that can be janitors, they are just going through a door waiting for the next one. Oversupplied. Too common.

    There's no revolving door for doctors or lawyers that's for sure.

    "people with money do not actually value the job"

    I agree, why don't they value it? Care to explain? Cause I'm pretty sure they don't value it because everyone can do it. If only a few people in the world can clean up poop, it'd be the job of millionaires.
     
  16. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    Paying people enough to live has nothing to do with supply and demand.

    It has everything to do with paying people enough to live.

    And it's clear that you don't respect the jobs these people do as well. Being a janitor is hard, dirty work that can make you physically ill because of actual biohazards, and they are actually a line of protection that help prevent disease from spreading (think about what would happen if trash including food scraps from lunch wasn't taken out of an office building and the toilets weren't cleaned).
     
  17. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    And yet, it can't be that bad because are willing to do it cheaply.
    And I'd honestly rather change my son's diaper than draft memorandums at the office.
     
  18. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    Do any of these people actually have a choice?

    If a person has to have money NOW to continue to survive, even if it's not enough, they'll usually do whatever is possible.

    This doesn't make it right for employers to undervalue these jobs or employees.
     
  19. ChristJudgeOfAll

    ChristJudgeOfAll Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they actually do, take out some student loans and go to college.
    FAFSA actually will cover everything. If being a janitor is so bad, borrow 50,000 and go to college. If college isn't enough, borrow another 200,000 and become a doctor.

    I haven't heard of janitors committing suicide due to job stress level, but certainly plenty of students do every year due to educational stress.

    Look at all the Chinese kids that commit suicide due to overstudying to get into a great university. Brain power is almost always more exhausting than physical labor.

    The only reason I write briefs is because I get paid 400 dollars an hour to do so. If it ever even fell to 100, I'd quit and go back to being a waiter like I was in my 20s. I'd much rather work 8 hours busing tables than spend an hour reading over case law.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  20. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    LOL.

    I went to college. I got a relevant degree. I still can't get a job in my field (I've mentioned why many times, didn't I mention it here? I cant' remember. Basically no one wants to hire for entry level so I can never get my foot in the door).

    I'm about to go to college AGAIN. FAFSA does NOT cover everything! FAFSA is covering less than half of my cost. I can't take out loans because there is no guarantee I'll be able to get a job and be able to pay them back (if I have to go back to a minimum wage job I won't be able to pay them back, because under minimum wage I can't even afford to pay for my insurance, medication, gas, etc).

    I can't become a doctor for various reasons, just like I also can't become an astronaut or run for president.
     
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