Let's try something new - Discussion on the flaming rule

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corvus_corax

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I was a Mod Trainee for seven weeks back in 2004 -- they decided I wasn't a good enough Christian to be a moderator. :(
morningstar2651 isn't (from what I know) a Christian at all, yet he is a mod
~ Confused forumite~
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Is flaming allowed when it's more like, "It's time to Lip Sync for your Life, and DON'T MESS IT UP!!!

"You better worrrk..."

Grrrrrl. How can you not think of that when you see "flaming..."

"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me."

- Matthew 15:8

And Mark quotes Him too (7:6):

He told them, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites. As it is written, 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

It appears Jesus is the ultimate in flaming others. And looking at using Prophets and prophecy, we can see that it is also used of future times as well. Like the Apostles do.




:cool:
 
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PreachersWife2004

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And again, Jesus KNEW these people's hearts. Without a doubt.

You might think you have some power to discern someone's heart based on their actions, but you don't.

We can say "you behavior is not becoming of a Christian" but you cannot really say (without making an uninformed judgment) that they are NOT Christian. Only God gets to do that.

And the whole point is, you don't even have to make it about the other person that you disagree with. If you stay focused on what YOU believe, then you won't possibly flame anyone else.

While the bible does tell us that we are to help our sisters and brothers who have fallen, it doesn't say that we're to be mean about it, or that we are to mock or insult them. And just because someone mocks and insults you, that certainly doesn't give you rights to do the same back.

As you look to Jesus for the ultimate judge, so do I. Here is a man who healed the ear of a soldier come to take him to die. If he can do that, if he can avoid insulting those who came to kill him, then I can certainly try more to be like him and worry more about what I believe and making sure that I am being the person Jesus wants ME to be.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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And again, Jesus KNEW these people's hearts. Without a doubt.

You might think you have some power to discern someone's heart based on their actions, but you don't.

We can say "you behavior is not becoming of a Christian" but you cannot really say (without making an uninformed judgment) that they are NOT Christian. Only God gets to do that.

And the whole point is, you don't even have to make it about the other person that you disagree with. If you stay focused on what YOU believe, then you won't possibly flame anyone else.

While the bible does tell us that we are to help our sisters and brothers who have fallen, it doesn't say that we're to be mean about it, or that we are to mock or insult them. And just because someone mocks and insults you, that certainly doesn't give you rights to do the same back.

As you look to Jesus for the ultimate judge, so do I. Here is a man who healed the ear of a soldier come to take him to die. If he can do that, if he can avoid insulting those who came to kill him, then I can certainly try more to be like him and worry more about what I believe and making sure that I am being the person Jesus wants ME to be.

From John (1 John):

"18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

This is how we know it is the last hour.

19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.

For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

22Who is the liar?

It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.

Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.

27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I do not see anything in those passages that tell us we're Jesus and can see into people's hearts. I think there's some very cut and dry things we can look for in false prophets, but my goodness, if I believed that anyone who believed differently than me was a false prophet, I'd be pretty lonely in heaven, wouldn't I?
 
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Beanieboy

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beanieboy said:
Originally Posted by Beanieboy
Is flaming allowed when it's more like, "It's time to Lip Sync for your Life, and DON'T MESS IT UP!!!

"You better worrrk..."

Grrrrrl. How can you not think of that when you see "flaming..."

"These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me."

- Matthew 15:8

And Mark quotes Him too (7:6):

It appears Jesus is the ultimate in flaming others. And looking at using Prophets and prophecy, we can see that it is also used of future times as well. Like the Apostles do.

:cool:

A) I was quoting DragRace, which is RuPaul's Drag version of America's Next Top Model. They have the same kind of judges, and he either does and over the top Tyra, or an over the Top Iman, and says, "It's time to LLLLLipsync for you llllife, and DON'T MESS IT UP."

Clues within the text: Lip Sync. RuPaul. The pun of "Flaming".
So, basically, you just said, Jesus is the ultimate flamer. Grrrrrrl.

B) Who was he was talking to?
1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'[a] and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father[c]' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.
'[d]"

This section has three basic units: verses 1-9 condemns the tradition(s) of the Pharisees

The question raised by this investigating team was why Jesus’ disciples violated the tradition of the elders by not washing their hands before eating. Exodus 30:17-21 required the priests to wash their hands and feet before entering the tabernacle. Leviticus 15:11 implies that washing one’s hands after becoming ritually unclean kept the uncleanness from being transmitted to another. However, nothing in the Old Testament suggests that washing of hands was necessary before eating.

he scribes and Pharisees correctly call their concern a "tradition" of the elders. The reference to traditions speaks of the development of what is also called the "oral law." In order to make sure that no commandment (positive or negative) of Scripture was broken the scribes were in the process of developing oral traditions that gave specific applications of biblical laws and detailed instructions on how they should be obeyed in every conceivable circumstance. The evolution of these Jewish ritual traditions is difficult to trace with precision, but it appears that the requirement to wash one’s hands before eating had only recently developed. Furthermore, it was only required of scribes and rabbis; it was not required of "ordinary" people. Technically, neither Jesus nor his disciples had been trained as scribes or rabbis and so they would not have been required to wash their hands before eating. However, the Pharisees appeared to take Jesus as a legitimate rabbi and certainly the followers of Jesus did not want to protest that assumption. Since a rabbi was responsible for the behavior of his disciples, the question was fairly put to Jesus.

Jesus’ response was swift and strong. He made three essential points. First, he charged the Pharisees with violating the commandment of God for the sake of their tradition. Second, he gave an example of their violation of the Law and third, he accused them of being hypocrites and used a quotation from Isaiah to condemn them for giving only lip service to God.

The first charge was that the Pharisees’ traditions did not accomplish their stated goal of helping people keep the Law. Rather they actually led to violation of the Law and were, in fact, a technique for avoiding parts of the Law one did not like. In verse 4 Jesus quotes two Old Testament commandments, one from Exodus 20:12 (to honor father and mother) and one from Exodus 21:17 (that whoever curses a parent shall be executed). He introduced the quotations by the expression, "God said, . . " This is much stronger (in Matthew 15:4) than in the parallel passage in Mark 7:10 which states, "Moses said, . . " The shift in Matthew is important. He wanted his readers to understand that the issue at stake in this passage was not just a difference of opinion about interpretation of the Law as Mark presents it. Rather, the issue at stake is the word of God versus human interpretation.


The Pharisees acknowledged the two commandments that Jesus cited, but they had developed a scheme of interpretation that enabled them to avoid certain duties to aged parents. Using the biblical commands against false oaths (Leviticus 19:12) and requiring keeping of oaths (Numbers 30:2 and Deuteronomy 23:21), they had developed a way to make oaths (or vows) to God that effectively kept them from supporting their parents. The process involved swearing that all one’s resources belonged to God, but of course were available for personal use until death. This meant that they could not give money away to support their aged parents, since that money had been promised to God. The spelling out of this process required a whole chapter of the Mishnah when the oral traditions were committed to writing between A.D. 180 and 200. Jesus concluded that this process had effectively nullified God’s intention in the commandment to honor one’s parents.

Further, he charged the Pharisees with hypocrisy indicating that though they claimed the oral traditions were designed to help people keep the Law, in fact, they were designed to help legal experts (like the Pharisees) break the Law. This first section closes in verses 8 and 9 with a quotation from Isaiah 29:13,



"This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far distant from me. They worship me in vain because they teach human commandments as doctrine."


The quotation accomplishes three goals. It accuses the Pharisees of mere "lip" service. It uses Scripture to charge them with replacing God’s word with human traditions. And it introduces the central place of one’s heart in determining the right motivation and the right worship.

Verses 10-11 are directed to the crowd and give an interpretive principle for Jesus, though it needs to be combined with Matthew 12:34 to be understood properly. The stated principle in verse 11 is that what goes into a person’s mouth does not defile that person. Rather it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles a person. This principle shifts the ground from the specific issue of honoring parents versus vows to the larger issue of the Pharisees’ interpretations of the Old Testament dietary laws. The parallel passage in Mark 7:19 declares that Jesus had set aside the Old Testament laws regarding clean and unclean foods. Matthew does not make such a radical statement. Rather, he simply points out that defilement in a matter of what comes out of a person, it is a matter of the heart rather than of the diet.

The specific mention of the heart does not come until verse 18 in the final paragraph of this section. In verse 12 the disciples come and tell Jesus that his statement had offended the Pharisees. Rather than retracting the statement, Jesus made an even more offensive statement about the Pharisees. He declared that they were not of God and had become blind guides for blind people. This kind of statement by Jesus is often cited today as evidence of the anti-semitism of Jesus. However, his words were the words of one Jew arguing with other Jews. Rather than being anti-semitic, Jesus was engaged in the very Jewish process of argument to establish an interpretation of the Scripture.

http://www.cresourcei.org/biblestudy/bbmatt12.html

Hope this helps
 
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Beanieboy

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From John (1 John):

"18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

This is how we know it is the last hour.

19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.

For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.


20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

22Who is the liar?

It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.

Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.

27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."

Yes, this is true.
And how do we know who are the sheep and the wolves, if the wolves are wearing sheep's clothing?

Matthew 7
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Luke 21
8He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

Galations 5
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other

I ask that no one follow me, agree with me. Demand it, actually.
I say to any Christian, you are to follow Christ alone.
 
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Beanieboy

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Interesting site talking about false teachers

Since we are in the last days, we must be discerning about where we go to discuss religious topics. Some sites are very deceptive, either intentionally, or unintentionally. Although they claim to have a Christian focus, things can quickly deteriorate into a very harmful situation.

Not everyone who claims to be a Christian, is one. The Bible predicts that there will be a great falling away in the last days, and not everyone that claims they belong to the Lord, will be acknowledged by Jesus when the judgment comes.

To do a good job exposing falseness or error, the site should:

state what the false teacher has said

show proof that it is wrong, or how inconsistent it is with scriptures

conclude that this is wrong/or heretical because of the proof

explain what is true instead

ranting, bloodthirsty attacks expressing personal opinion, no proof, or inappropriate connection between their “proof” and what the person said. Obsession with the person, sarcasm, hatefulness, gossip, ridicule, generalizing specific mistakes, and condemning everything about the person. attacking others who disagree, who may have a more balanced view. False accusations, unsubstantiated remarks, assigning evil intent to teaching errors.

Remember that not everyone with a false teaching is 100% wrong in ALL their theology. They may only have 10% that is wrong, or one teaching that is wrong, but the other 90% is valuable. If the site condemns everything about the person and denies what is correct about the person’s teachings, then you will fall into the trap of condemnation. I have seen sites accuse the person of being demon possessed, and that everything that happens in the ministry is evil. This is unfair.

The trap:

One or both of 2 things will happen

(1) If you happen to have a critical nature yourself, you will find yourself agreeing with them, and will end up doing an injustice to the person criticized, as well as contaminating your own spirit with negative remarks

(2) You will spend an endless cycle of self defense as you are constantly attacked and condemned. They will always want the last word, and as you try to give a good conclusion or answer, they will bind you with many confused arguments, and you will feel trapped, into constantly responding to them. This is a huge waste of time, and spiritual energy. It will drain you, and you will never convince them of your perspective.

Negative Behaviors:


they will attack, and attempt to destroy any true witness you have

they launch attacks at you for innocent remarks

Positive testimonies are rejected as doubtful, so if God helped you, then you are “lying,” or “deluded.” They do not believe you, since they “see” no proof from you. (They have no trouble lying themselves, however.)

your words are twisted into the wrong meanings, and they consistently, and intentionally come to the wrong conclusions, since they have already made up their minds.

They will put words in your mouth, and claim you said things that you did not say. Then they will attack you for saying these things. (insane !!)

they will gang up on you (typical of religious spirits)

they will claim to have “knowledge” of you that they can use to threaten you with

instead of objectively addressing specific issues, they attack you as a person

no evidence of Christian love

they are only nice if you agree with them

they are mean, cold, condescending, critical, condemning

argumentative, full of strife, relentless, harassing, unforgiving

they are spiritually blind to anything you tell them, narrow-minded

you never get their approval

they are falsely “objective”

they can be quite savage in attacks

they speak curses over you to influence and control your opinion

they do not believe anything you say. spirit of unbelief present

they are spiritually superior to you – you have to take their advice and conclusions since you are in sin and they are right

they will tell you to repent, since you are guilty

they will focus on, and point out, all your “personal faults,” since they have no truth to fight back with.

if you fight back and say they are lying when they falsely accuse you, they will become the victims of your sinfulness, and then YOU will become the “false accuser. (***they are the false accusers to begin with, then when you say they are lying, then that makes YOU the false accuser.)

they display delusions of religious superiority and authority one minute, and delusions of persecution (by you) the next


they will confuse every issue badly, to get you to concede, or to confuse things into looking like they “won”

they tend to be sensational in expressing their views

Your biggest clue will be when they block your comments, responses, and participation on their sites, because appealing to fairness, righteousness, and Christian charity (love) will offend them. One clever trick is for someone to take what you said, add to it or change it, then secretly forward it to the moderator of the site, to misrepresent you. You do not get a copy of the “complaint.” This is commonly known as “backstabbing.” You are then condemned or blocked, but remarks about you are still being permitted on the site. That is, comments are being manipulated so that only the antagonistic view is presented about you. When it gets this bad, just leave and don’t worry about it. This is their sin, not yours.
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/are-false-christian-websites-putting-you-in-bondage/
 
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Beanieboy

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How to know and deal with religious spirits that are not of God, and probably the most dangerous:

manifestation and activity of religious spirits require a friendly union between “flesh” (the fallen human nature) and demons. It is not solely demonic activity, so being around them requires a different spiritual response.


Jesus had no trouble with demons. Demons bowed and fled. He easily cast them out. But the Pharisees were a different matter. Religious spirits do not bow down and obey, because of the human free will element involved.

To interact with them, is like dealing with a hybrid of demonic and human. The human component makes it difficult to remove the demonic, because the human part is enjoying the fellowship, and power the demonic gives it, and does not want it to leave. Deliverance will not happen without the human will agreeing to it.



How to recognize them:


Religious spirits oppress and persecute others, usually true believers. They do this in the name of God.

they criticize others almost constantly, and recruit others to join them.


They are controlling, and legalistic, rigid in opinion.

Very unforgiving about what they accuse you of doing wrong


Their religious zeal, spirituality, and righteousness is not of God. They have no personal relationship with God, just a religious agenda they want followed, with them in control.


focus on perfection, not progress


are proud and arrogant


find fault with others but not with themselves


know how to tear down, but not to build up.


unable to receive correction and instruction


they will not listen to man, only God.


will not submit to any human authority, unless that authority exalts them


believe that God has appointed them to fix you. God cannot do it without them. They are appointed to fix everything wrong in your life. But they fix you by tearing you down, by destroying you, and criticizing everything they think is wrong with you.


will not tolerate weakness or failures in you. Bible says to bear one another’s burdens


always want recognition


suspicious of every move of God as being from the devil. They watch and study and do not believe it. Spread doubts. If God did not do it before, then He cannot be doing it now. God is not allowed to do anything they do not understand. They forget that the devil copies God. God does not copy the devil.


they glory in yesterday, but not today, unless they are in the center of it


they will not join in any group outside of theirs and will forbid you to do the same. “We have all the truth.” Cult thinking. You cannot go anywhere else except their church, or you will be defiled.


they do not understand the work of grace in someone’s life


they take false stand on dreams and visions, theirs are ok, not but yours


no room for God working in their life. they are already perfect.


may have started out as spirit filled, but they think they can perfect themselves in the flesh.

they will put religious curses on innocent people


if unchecked, they will progress to the demonic, and then will need deliverance

they make false accusations, then justify then with irrelevant scripture, to “sanctify” the evil that is spoken. This can be the most twisted and confusing experience.

Example: they accuse you of being a “snake” or a “scorpion” because you do not agree with them (you happen to be correct). Then they pull some scripture that talks about something NOT related to your “error,” but has to do with why you will go to hell, or need to repent. They say the sky is red, and you say it is blue. They then quote this passage, which is irrelevant:

2Tim:4

[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

[2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

[4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


What does this passage have to do with the color of the sky? Nothing! It is there to mentally confuse you, and keep you in spiritual chaos. The scripture is a trap, not to enlighten you, but to get you to concede to them. So the devil is inappropriately using the Word of God as a sword against you, and you need to recognize this strategy, and either reject and expose what he is doing, or be well armored with the Word of God yourself, and fight back with more than he has.

Intensely unforgiving. They recall past “mistakes,” even from 20 years ago. They will never let you forget the mistake and will bring it up to condemn you. It may not even be a mistake, but they think it is. They use the mistakes to prove that you are evil or wrong, and need their advice.


Why are they so prevalent?


1. some have always been around, through history, example, the Pharisees in Jesus time. It comes from a desire to be important.


2. the modern charismatic movement opens the door for false spirits.


a. those which desire power, to prove they are “anointed” of God, when they are not called of God. So they are fakes. They become false teachers and false prophets, etc. Some are self- deceived, and do it to gain acceptance. Others are just corrupt, and do it for money, power, etc.


b. those which may or may not be “anointed,” or have a ministry calling on their lives, but who criticize others who actually ARE called of God, as fakes. Limited in their understanding, they actually attack true teachers of the gospel, and true prophets (who are rare) and claim they are fakes when they are real. Example: the persecution of the prophet Jeremiah by the leaders in his day. They claimed he was a false prophet, but he was real, and telling the truth.


What to do


1. beware of them . Jesus said to “beware the leaven of the Pharisees.” (Matt 16:


2. resist them, as “God resists the proud” ( James 4:6)


3. recognize them (Rom 10:2-4) as those with convictions, zeal, and righteousness that is not of God


4. if you have the authority in a church, as in pastoral standing, etc, dismiss them. If you don’t, they will cause you a lot of trouble, including trying to have you dismissed, because you are not up to their standards.


5. if you do not have any authority over them, just leave them alone, or leave the church environment, if the pastor will not do anything. Given enough time, they will attack you and cause you spiritual harm. Remember, they crucified Jesus. Imagine what they would do to you, if given the chance.


6. be realistic. These are the last days. You will find religious spirits everywhere. If you leave one church, you will find more in another. So if you pick a big enough church, if you want one, then you will have a better chance of finding some nice people to associate with.


7. Pray for wisdom, and the ability to discern spirits, for your own protection.

http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/religious-spirits/
 
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yguy

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John 13:34-35 - 34A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also
love one another.
As in "Get behind me satan", you mean?
This is what others should see in Christians. If their "love" is impatient, rude, arrogant, boastful, proud, or seeming to delight in sending damning people to hell, it is in conflict with the bible's definition of "love."
So how does Jesus calling the pharisees a bunch of snakes square with that idea? Hmmmmm?
Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV) And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.

Too sticky sweet?



Roman 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way."

This says that rather than being critical of others,
Paul wasn't critical of others?
to be concerned how our behavior is affecting others.
You are concerned about how your behavior affects others? Don't look like it from here, pilgrim.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1Co 13:1-3 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is pretty important, and if you lack it, you gain nothing. You are nothing.
Indeed; and you sure as Hell don't have it if you have a counterfeit version of it.
The evidence suggests that the crowd shouting “Crucify him!” was a crowd of chief priests, scribes, elders, Pharisees, Sadducees and “conscripted” false witnesses (by threat or bribe most likely)
Oh please. There is no record in the Gospels of any dissenting voices among the Jews.
This is the second reference about fearing the crowd.
Big deal. The masses have always been fascinated by powerful figures, but mostly not for good reason.
 
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yguy

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I do not see anything in those passages that tell us we're Jesus

Joh 15:5

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​
If He is in you, how can you not see as He sees?
and can see into people's hearts.
Joh 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.​
If you think seeing a person's hidden motivations is greater than calming storms or walking on water, I'd love to know why.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Anyone who claims to be a Christian is one.

Ah, but that is CF's definition of a Christian.

You still haven't given MY definition of a Christian. You've given what you assume to be my definition.

So try again.

And yes, I'm proving a point here.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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You parsed out so much of my actual post that I don't really understand what you're getting at.

Of course, without Jesus we can do nothing. What's your point? I still don't see how that gives us the right to mock and judge those who disagree with us.

You think you're right, they think they're right.

In the end, it will be GOD that judges correctly, not us.

And again, you can still call out someone's behavior, which is what we should do when we see our fellow brothers and sisters falling away. You don't need to attack them.

How many times need I say that?


Joh 15:5

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​
If He is in you, how can you not see as He sees?
Joh 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.​
If you think seeing a person's hidden motivations is greater than calming storms or walking on water, I'd love to know why.
 
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yguy

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You still haven't given MY definition of a Christian. You've given what you assume to be my definition.

So try again.
You're on record as saying that an advocate of pedophilia can be a Christian, so I can't imagine how my representation of your definition is deficient.

So by all means clue me in.
 
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b&wpac4

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You're on record as saying that an advocate of pedophilia can be a Christian, so I can't imagine how my representation of your definition is deficient.

So by all means clue me in.

Why do you assume someone cannot be a follower of Jesus and also be mistaken about things?
 
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